Author Topic: .15 carrier questions (Read 56463 times)

Jim Roselle · « **on:** April 16, 2015, 03:12:28 PM »

Hey all,

I've recently starting building the wing for a .15 size F2G Corsair for carrier. This is my first carrier build so I have a couple questions.

I'll be mounting this bellcrank on the outboard side via a bracket, how far should the mount hole be located from the fuselage?

Also, what size tank should I use?

Thanks

Jim

Wayne J. Buran · « **Reply #1 on:** April 16, 2015, 06:05:26 PM »

Bill Bischoff might know best. Some dimensions of the airplane might help. It seams every airplane is different. Somewhere slightly behind the balance point. Can you post a picture of the airplane so it shows how you intend to mount it.
Wayne

Jim Roselle · « **Reply #2 on:** April 16, 2015, 06:28:29 PM »

Quote from: Wayne J. Buran on April 16, 2015, 06:05:26 PM

Bill Bischoff might know best. Some dimensions of the airplane might help. It seams every airplane is different. Somewhere slightly behind the balance point. Can you post a picture of the airplane so it shows how you intend to mount it.
Wayne

I only have a wing so far. Wingspan is 30" with a root chord of just over 7". The wing will sit back about 4 1/2" inches from the front, overall length will be about 23". I will place the bellcrank behind the cg but need to know how far outboard to mount it so I have room for the throttle movement. I hope that last statement makes sense?

Jim

john vlna · « **Reply #3 on:** April 16, 2015, 07:35:00 PM »

He is a pic of how I've mounted my 3 line bc's. As far as fuel it depends on fuel nitro, motor , how much hanging etc. Start with 2 oz and see how it goes.

I normally carrier a few billion electrons

Paul Smith · « **Reply #4 on:** April 17, 2015, 02:39:41 PM »

Here is my procedure, which works good.

The key issue is alignment of the throttle pushrod.
So install the engine and hook up the throttle pushrod.
Then install the leadouts.
Jockey the position of the bellcrank to get the throttle to work properly.
Once the throttle is working OK, then get the up/down system working right.
When the throttle, updown and leadouts all work right, you have established the proper position.

Your question could not be answered without some hands-on trial and error. This stuff isn't so easy.

Paul Smith · « **Reply #5 on:** April 17, 2015, 02:43:29 PM »

I gave up on J.Roberts/Brodak and designed my own. It's a live axle system with the speed control up top.

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #6 on:** April 17, 2015, 03:12:14 PM »

Pardon my lack of knowledge, but I've wondered ..... isn't a mechanical type throttle system spring loaded in some way? I dont want to hijack the thread, but I've got a Torpedo 35 with carb ... always wanted to put it on a bashed FS but this detail has eluded me.

Thanks .... I enjoy looking at carrier plane pics up close.

bill bischoff · « **Reply #7 on:** April 17, 2015, 03:17:36 PM »

I usually mount the bellcrank inboard of the fuselage, with some kind of linkage to get to the other side of the fuselage. The linkage also allows me to match the travel needs of the carburetor because I can make the input and output sides of the linkage different lengths.

Two ounces of fuel should be enough. I carry 2 1/2 oz, and have exceeded 4 minutes low speed on occasion without running out.

Bill Bischoff

bill bischoff · « **Reply #8 on:** April 17, 2015, 03:40:02 PM »

Quote from: Larrys4227 on April 17, 2015, 03:12:14 PM

Pardon my lack of knowledge, but I've wondered ..... isn't a mechanical type throttle system spring loaded in some way? I dont want to hijack the thread, but I've got a Torpedo 35 with carb ... always wanted to put it on a bashed FS but this detail has eluded me.

Thanks .... I enjoy looking at carrier plane pics up close.

Three line systems are not spring loaded. When properly rigged, all three lines share equal tension at all times. Imagine a normal bellcrank with two lines. Hook the pushrod to the throttle instead of the elevator. Now, replace the rear line with another bellcrank, this time connected to the elevator like normal. The elevator still works independently, but when you pull both elevator lines at once, the front line retreats and the throttle pushrod moves. It works great when rigged properly, but these days you can use a 2.4 ghz radio instead. Buy a cheap pistol grip car radio, hook up a throttle servo on your plane, hold the transmitter in your free hand, and have at it! Infinitely simpler, and probably cheaper than a 3 line system as well.

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #9 on:** April 17, 2015, 04:21:31 PM »

Thanks Bill ...wow, that sounds alot more complicated than I thought.

I wish I could see one sometime. I have read about the 2.4 setups ... but its been awhile for that stuff and I figured that weight of onboard batteries, reciever and servo isnt the way to do it.

Gonna investigate now on how cheap I can get into 2.4 .... maybeit is the thing to do .... Hmmm ... thanks for the thoughts .... mucho appreciated.

Paul Smith · « **Reply #10 on:** April 17, 2015, 07:44:59 PM »

As mentioned before, 3-line systems work by balancing updown bellcrank against the throttle bellcrank. No springs are involved.

Actually if you are starting from Square One, the 3-line handle and bellcrank cost about $80. You can get into 2.4 for less money than that. After 50 years of experience with 3-line, I was able to make my first 2.4 easier than another 3-line.

Larrys4227 · « **Reply #11 on:** April 17, 2015, 08:59:05 PM »

Yeah .... I was looking at HobbyKing.

2.4 radio w/recvr and li-po battery for 24.00. Just add a micro servo and recvr battery ....

Talk about cheap ... for under 50.00 shipped I could have everything I need .....

... and save a bunch of aggrevation in trying to get a 3-line to work.

Thanks for the headsup. I didnt think it was that affordable.

don Burke · « **Reply #12 on:** April 17, 2015, 11:11:13 PM »

You could try this setup:

http://radio-u-control.yolasite.com/dhk-24-mgz-u-control-handle.php

It's what I'm using on my MO-1 w/40 FP

Wayne J. Buran · « **Reply #13 on:** April 18, 2015, 06:05:17 AM »

So there you go Jim. All kinds of answers. BTW the Navy Carrier Society has a new "facebook Page". Nice resource for us carrier types. Just look up "Navy Carrier Society".
Good Luck
Wayne

Paul Smith · « **Reply #14 on:** April 18, 2015, 08:27:03 AM »

Quote from: Larrys4227 on April 17, 2015, 08:59:05 PM

Yeah .... I was looking at HobbyKing.

2.4 radio w/recvr and li-po battery for 24.00. Just add a micro servo and recvr battery ....

Talk about cheap ... for under 50.00 shipped I could have everything I need ..... ... and save a bunch of aggrevation in trying to get a 3-line to work.

Thanks for the headsup. I didnt think it was that affordable.

Lipos are very light, but the chargers are more costly. If you need the tip weight anyway you can use Nicads or throwaway dry cells. Three AAA's will do the job.

Jim Roselle · « **Reply #15 on:** April 18, 2015, 10:17:24 AM »

Quote from: Wayne J. Buran on April 18, 2015, 06:05:17 AM

So there you go Jim. All kinds of answers. BTW the Navy Carrier Society has a new "facebook Page". Nice resource for us carrier types. Just look up "Navy Carrier Society".
Good Luck
Wayne

Thanks guys!

I'll read through the info and probably have more questions. It will be awhile though as my honeymoon officially starts today!

Jim

Randy Snow · « **Reply #16 on:** April 19, 2015, 04:03:53 AM »

In the beginning...... well as far as my Dad's throttled models went ... he used an electric operated type. Then in the 1965 June issue of Aero Modeller D. Chinery had an article about a third line control system. It's very simple and low cost..this has been the only way since '65 that Dad and myself have used. The article shows a 2" system but have used it with 3". The only difference is on the control 'lever'. Instead of 1" from the hard mount pivot point of the 'lever' to where the leadout/control cable attaches is 1 1/2". But the 1/2" pivot moment for the bellcrank stays the same.

Jim Roselle · « **Reply #17 on:** June 05, 2015, 09:00:00 AM »

Life has settled back down a little and I've made some progress:

Power will be a magnum .15. Slow week at work next week, I hope to get some work done on the model.

Jim

eric david conley · « **Reply #18 on:** June 05, 2015, 12:18:46 PM »

Its looking good. Eric

JoeJust · « **Reply #19 on:** June 05, 2015, 07:26:31 PM »

Super looking plane! I'm assuming that the structure on the inboard wing tip is an adjustable line rake. I just looked at two sets of rules for .15 Carrier and it appears that line sliders are not allowed in .15 Carrier competition. If like many of us you don't really care to be a competitor and would just like to have some fun, then a line slider can be a lot of fun. Also, the "slider" can be locked in position for a competitive flight. I am impressed with your building skill, and if you are as good a finisher as a builder you will have one great looking plane. I can't wait to see it when it is done.
Joe

Jim Roselle · « **Reply #20 on:** June 06, 2015, 09:46:58 AM »

Joe,

Thank you! That's an adjustable leadout guide, I can get them back go the wing root chord if I need to. It could also be modified to a slider.

Jim

JoeJust · « **Reply #21 on:** June 06, 2015, 07:23:48 PM »

Great Jim. I only pointed out the slider rule in case you thought it might be legal and didn't want you disappointed at a contest to find that out. HVE FUN!
Joe

Jim Roselle · « **Reply #22 on:** June 07, 2015, 11:34:16 PM »

I'll be cutting the tail feathers this week. I'm trying to stay as close to the scale outline as possible on this plane. Should I consider enlarging the the horizontal stab and elevator for better low speed control?

Thank you,
Jim

Wayne J. Buran · « **Reply #23 on:** June 08, 2015, 06:30:38 AM »

Jim, the outline is one issue and the volume is another. The outline is for the aesthetics. Hate to see a Corsair with a funky stab and elevator. However you came up with the balance of dimensions for your model should work. Maybe cheat on the size of the elevator somehow making it slightly larger. I myself would start with the scaled down results from the rest of the airplane if that makes sense.
Wayne

Paul Smith · « **Reply #24 on:** June 08, 2015, 06:47:49 AM »

I always make the tails oversize and then wish I'd made 'em even bigger.

There are NO scale points in 15. If it looks like an airplane at all is a plus.

Jim Roselle · « **Reply #25 on:** June 08, 2015, 07:46:19 AM »

Quote from: Wayne J. Buran on June 08, 2015, 06:30:38 AM

Jim, the outline is one issue and the volume is another. The outline is for the aesthetics. Hate to see a Corsair with a funky stab and elevator. However you came up with the balance of dimensions for your model should work. Maybe cheat on the size of the elevator somehow making it slightly larger. I myself would start with the scaled down results from the rest of the airplane if that makes sense.
Wayne

Wayne,

I think I'll start with the outline I have that is scaled to the model and increase it in 10% increments until it starts to look "not right" then back it off 10%.

Jim

Wayne J. Buran · « **Reply #26 on:** June 08, 2015, 08:19:23 AM »

Sounds like a good idea to me. Looking forward to more pictures.
Wayne

Jim Roselle · « **Reply #27 on:** June 16, 2015, 02:06:00 PM »

As I've decided to approach this project from a scale standpoint I was wondering if there are any drawbacks to going with a tail wheel instead of a tail skid?

Thanks,

Jim

Wayne J. Buran · « **Reply #28 on:** June 16, 2015, 07:00:17 PM »

Some times a tail wheel may get in the way for dropping your hook or the wheel just gets beat up. Otherwise normally it doesn't matter.
Wayne

Douglas Ames · « **Reply #29 on:** June 16, 2015, 08:10:23 PM »

I built a similar Corsair .15 about 4 years ago. Here's a link to the build.
I used a unique 3-line system. A split version of the stacked bellcrank system.
I'd like to build another with 2.4 gHz throttle control. It just makes good sense in 2015.
Cool airplane!! Look forward to seeing yours completed.

http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php/topic,14738.0.html

Douglas Ames · « **Reply #30 on:** June 17, 2015, 12:50:47 PM »

Quote from: Jim Roselle on June 16, 2015, 02:06:00 PM

As I've decided to approach this project from a scale standpoint I was wondering if there are any drawbacks to going with a tail wheel instead of a tail skid?

Thanks,

Jim

I don't think so. Your tail hook will hang far below that.

Jim Roselle · « **Reply #31 on:** June 17, 2015, 06:42:24 PM »

Quote from: Douglas Ames on June 16, 2015, 08:10:23 PM

I built a similar Corsair .15 about 4 years ago. Here's a link to the build.
I used a unique 3-line system. A split version of the stacked bellcrank system.
I'd like to build another with 2.4 gHz throttle control. It just makes good sense in 2015.
Cool airplane!! Look forward to seeing yours completed.

http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php/topic,14738.0.html

Douglas,

I actually perused your build post quite a bit before I started my build. Very cool plane, I love the simplicity of your arresting hook release. Are you still flying the model?

How did you construct your wing? I used the method outlined in this Eric Conley plan:

http://carrier-deck.com/wp-content/uploads/F2G1_Conley_40size_100pct_102cmSpan.pdf

Jim Roselle · « **Reply #32 on:** June 19, 2015, 11:06:43 AM »

Getting down to brass tacks in the construction process, hope to be covering by next Friday.

eric david conley · « **Reply #33 on:** June 19, 2015, 08:30:23 PM »

That is turning out to be a very nice F2G-1. I'm very impressed. Eric

Mike Keville · « **Reply #34 on:** June 19, 2015, 09:12:45 PM »

I love it! A Carrier model that actually looks like a Navy aircraft. What a refreshing change.

Jim Roselle · « **Reply #35 on:** June 30, 2015, 05:02:59 PM »

So I was recently married and the way it's done now is to register online for gifts. People buy the gifts online and they ship directly to the house. My wife thought I was crazy for saving all the tissue from the packaging. Crate & Barrel stores have an especially distinctive tissue paper.

Gentleman, I give you the "Crate & Barrel Special":

I'm applying polyspan to the wings tomorrow. It's my first time using poly so I will watch Roberts video once more and report back with the results tomorrow.

Jim

Jim Roselle · « **Reply #36 on:** July 01, 2015, 01:10:21 PM »

Success! I used full strength dope on the bones and then adhered with 50/50 thinned dope. I then brushed on 1 full coat of 50/50. I then dropped said jar of 50/50 in the garage floor. Should I do the rest with thinned or full strength dope? I'm using sig flat coat and sig thinner. At what point do I start sanding?

Jim Roselle · « **Reply #37 on:** July 08, 2015, 12:46:45 PM »

Hanging in the "paint booth"/low speed flight preview

john vlna · « **Reply #38 on:** July 08, 2015, 01:11:01 PM »

Looks nice but I think you have exceeded 60 degrees

Jim Roselle · « **Reply #39 on:** August 02, 2015, 09:07:29 AM »

I'm to the point of installing leadouts, what size wire is used for a .15?

Wayne J. Buran · « **Reply #40 on:** August 02, 2015, 08:13:39 PM »

Jim, there is no standard for leadoffs for fifteen carrier. There are those of us who do not use lead outs. The lines are connected to the B/C directly with brass eyelet ends. Check out Bill Bischoff Japanese Zero article for that. I use Brodak .027 L/O wire on all of my airplanes except my .15 Guardian which uses the Bischoff set up.
Wayne

Jim Roselle · « **Reply #41 on:** August 04, 2015, 05:04:56 PM »

Wayne,

Thanks for the input, I've decided to go with the "Bischoff Method". Pretty slick idea. Here's a link to the thread for those that are curious.

http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php/topic,21240.0.html

Jim

Jim Roselle · « **Reply #42 on:** August 05, 2015, 11:00:57 PM »

Here she is, I hope to fly Friday.

Wayne J. Buran · « **Reply #43 on:** August 06, 2015, 05:24:19 AM »

Looks great. Good luck.
Wayne

eric david conley · « **Reply #44 on:** August 06, 2015, 09:47:23 AM »

The plane looks great and I hope it fly's as good as it looks. PLEASE take your time while getting your plane in the air and flying the way you think it should. I have found that almost none of my planes have flown the way I wanted them to until I had flown the plane enough to make it fly like I wanted it to. This means start slow and don't move on to the next step until you have become comfortable with the first step. If something doesn't feel right come back on the forum and tell us about it, we may be able to help you. Good luck. Eric

Jim Roselle · « **Reply #45 on:** August 06, 2015, 12:10:20 PM »

Thanks guys,

I really appreciate the offer of help. Ted Kraver will be helping me with the maiden flight tomorrow. I'll report back on how it goes and try to include some video.

Jim

Jim Roselle · « **Reply #46 on:** August 07, 2015, 01:14:26 PM »

It flys!!! I only put two flights on it as it was a little windy. The throttle linkage needs to be adjusted so it doesn't die when I throttle back. I will also make a new landing gear that sweeps further forward so it won't flip over when it lands. I put an Eric Conely style roll bar in the tail so it faired ok in the flips. I used a lot from Eric's F2G plan and ME 109 .15 to build this model. Thanks Eric.

All in all, I'm happy. It gets off the ground with room to spare and flys very stable.

Here's a photo and video:

john e. holliday · « **Reply #47 on:** August 07, 2015, 02:05:52 PM »

Looks good. Now to get the engine where its reliable. and practice.

Jim Roselle · « **Reply #48 on:** September 10, 2015, 05:22:41 AM »

Now that the engine is broken in I am having issues with it going rich and stumbling on takeoff. It stays slightly rich for a lap or so and then leans out and runs great. Tank is uniflow clunk. I am open to any and all suggestions.

Jim

eric david conley · « **Reply #49 on:** September 10, 2015, 10:15:39 AM »

I watched Burt Brokaw tune one of his carrier planes that had a clunk tank and was doing what you describe. He started by shim the tank out from the fuselage a 1/16" at a time until the problem went away. I don't remember how far he had to go before it cleaned up the problem but he got it running just the way he wanted it to. Clunk tanks by their nature are a little narrow and the pick up just is not out far enough when the tank is mounted against the fuselage. Your right about it working fine when the engine was new and then when broken in things change. I hope you go to the Marschinke Contest in Tucson on the 26th and 27th of this month and fly your plane there. Burt will be there and they usually fly carrier both days, I imagine Ted Kraver will be there also. I've attached a page from a 1995 edition of the NCS by Bill Bischoff that will give valuable information on carrier plane fuel tanks. Eric