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Author Topic: Cost of finish WOW!  (Read 5356 times)

Offline Bob Reeves

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Cost of finish WOW!
« on: February 19, 2015, 04:04:35 AM »
I just spent $209.00 between Aircraft Spruce and KBS just for dope and clear for my new stunt ship. I didn't order allot of excess anything and it will only be two colors. Guess I'm just ranting because it was quite a surprise when I added everything up.

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2015, 05:17:20 AM »
I just spent $209.00 between Aircraft Spruce and KBS just for dope and clear for my new stunt ship. I didn't order allot of excess anything and it will only be two colors. Guess I'm just ranting because it was quite a surprise when I added everything up.

Bob,

I'm sure the final results will make you feel better.  H^^

However, you only added up the "finishing" products. What about the rest?

Balsa wood or kit.
Adhesives/glue
Control HDWE
Covering material
Engine
Tank
Wheels
Prop
Spinner
Miscellaneous

Now add the investment in what equipment is needed to build a stunt model.

Tools
Spray gun
Airbrush
Compressor
Miscellaneous

You have greater costs than I have with paint materials for finishing. Unfortunately, I cannot use products with odors so I'm experimenting with artists acrylic on my stunt model.

I have plenty of experience using artists acrylic paints, but never on a model airplane.

My paint was 60.00 some dollars. Comes in tubes like toothpaste. reduces with water and has absolutely no odor. And! You can clear the stuff with two part auto clear.

It should work out for me.

 

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Offline Bob Hudak

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2015, 05:59:01 AM »
When you start looking at the cost of building and finishing a model an ARF looks better and better,just got to overlook the quality and workmanship of an ARF. Reminds me of rabbit hunting. Feed the beagle, gas the truck, buy ammo,etc.
 for a handful of rabbits. Still love doing it tho. Beat going to the market for a farm raised rabbit pumped with antibiotics.🍗
Bob
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Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2015, 06:32:45 AM »
ARF = what $120.00 and no appearance points.. Scratch Built = ~$700 to $900 with a Hunt foam wing and maybe 18 appearance points (if everything goes right). So it ends up costing about $40.00 a point. Them appearance points sure are expensive  ;D

Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2015, 06:41:15 AM »
See no evil- I just close my eyes and press the 'checkout' button.  The one thing about living alone is I don't have to explain anything to a spouse.

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Offline Bob Hunt

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2015, 06:46:00 AM »
Remember the illustrious words of my buddy, Dean Pappas: There is only one hobby... Spending money!

Bob Hunt

Offline Steve Fitton

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2015, 07:10:30 AM »
Try taking up golf and see how much money that goes for...

Or High Power rocketry where you might spend the cost of a PA-75/pipe and prop with every flight!!!!
Steve

Offline RC Storick

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2015, 08:28:01 AM »
If you tally up the cost of everything on a high zoot stunt ship you will have sticker shock when the calculator hits the 1000-1500 dollar mark not including the hours of labor that goes into one. When I give this figure that's everything wood,glue,sandpaper,paint engine,prop,spinner,tank and the 1000 other things I have not listed. You could have 50.00 just in controls and a 100 in landing gear and wheels. Average cost of a paint job 300.00 But try motorcycle racing and see what that costs.

Cost for sandpaper alone could hit the 50.00 mark if your a real sander, pretty easy when its over a dollar a sheet.
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Online Crist Rigotti

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2015, 08:57:12 AM »
And some people call Monokote Moneykote! 
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Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2015, 09:02:22 AM »
Being able to say  "I did that!" ..... Priceless
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Offline Gerald Arana

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2015, 09:06:49 AM »
Being able to say  "I did that!" ..... Priceless

I'm with you Tom! y1

Jerry

Offline dave siegler

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2015, 09:12:56 AM »
yes airplane dope is getting as expesnive as the stuff they sell on the street corner!.

It is making ultra kote and epoxy finishes look like a good alternative.
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2015, 09:28:25 AM »
yes airplane dope is getting as expesnive as the stuff they sell on the street corner!.

It is making ultra kote and epoxy finishes look like a good alternative.

   I might have about that much invested in Klass-Kote but it's enough for many more airplanes than I am ever likely to build. Dope is absurdly expensive, for what you get.

    Brett

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2015, 10:14:28 AM »
   Bought 3 sheets of 3M 320 in a pack last week at True Value   $6.00  I dam near had a stroke.

Offline Fred Cronenwett

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2015, 10:31:33 AM »
I have used the Latex house paint with great results, easy to work with and water clean up. I can get a quart of paint (mixed to my color) for under $20 and then follow up with KBS diamond clear.

Fred
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Offline dennis lipsett

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2015, 10:36:38 AM »
I have always thought that c/L was the cheapest hobby anyone could have for the pleasure it gives. There have been a few more expensive hobbies mentioned but as said. A hobby is where you put your disposable income. If you have none then walking is a good hobby.

Dennis

Offline Motorman

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2015, 01:06:12 PM »
$120 for Asics.


MM

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2015, 01:21:45 PM »
Hi Bob,

Yes, I am well aware of the costs of building a competitive stunter.  I wonder if a C/L Scale job runs higher?  Probably more in time (labor) i would guess!

I just block out the "negative thoughts" and do like Dave T says, "hit the check out button!"  When I was building a few tings for others, some thought I could build and finish a model for a couple hundred dollars, I might as well just given it too them!!  One thing for sure, I couldn't buy a beach cottage with the proceeds  LL~  LL~  LL~  y1

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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2015, 03:39:19 PM »
I just bought three items from my local AB store.

Tube of putty                   9.77
Gray fine scuff pad           1.54
1/4" fine line tape           13.45

Total with tax                 26.25

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Offline George Grossardt

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2015, 04:55:41 PM »
Hobbies/passions are expensive.  First and foremost, I am a cyclist. I have four bikes with the least expensive one costing about $2000 and the most expensive one (custom built) at over $8000.  Tires cost between $50 and $100 each.  Chains cost $50 to $100 each.  Tires and chains get changed a lot.  Blow a component (crank, shifter) and we are talking hundreds to replace.  I don't care though as I get a ton of enjoyment out of the sport and it keeps me healthy (and sane). 

Model airplanes are no different.  If you love it and it makes you happy and you have the funds, enjoy yourself.

Remember, you can't take it with you!

George


Offline Mike Keville

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2015, 05:11:49 PM »
. . . Remember, you can't take it with you!
=================================================

As a certain song once said, "I've never seen a hearse with a trailer hitch."   ;D

FORMER member, "Academy of Multi-rotors & ARFs".

Offline John Fitzgerald

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2015, 05:52:17 PM »
If you tally up the cost of everything on a high zoot stunt ship you will have sticker shock when the calculator hits the 1000-1500 dollar mark not including the hours of labor that goes into one. When I give this figure that's everything wood,glue,sandpaper,paint engine,prop,spinner,tank and the 1000 other things I have not listed. You could have 50.00 just in controls and a 100 in landing gear and wheels. Average cost of a paint job 300.00 But try motorcycle racing and see what that costs.

Cost for sandpaper alone could hit the 50.00 mark if your a real sander, pretty easy when its over a dollar a sheet.
I crash too often to go high zoot.  Utility finish for me!

Offline billbyles

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2015, 05:59:29 PM »
I just spent $209.00 between Aircraft Spruce and KBS just for dope and clear for my new stunt ship. I didn't order allot of excess anything and it will only be two colors. Guess I'm just ranting because it was quite a surprise when I added everything up.

Let's see...you had to buy a quart of each color of dope (and how many colors did you have?)  I doubt you used much of any one color so you need to factor in the approximate amount of dope used for each color and convert to the $ used of each color to arrive at the true amount you spent for dope on your airplane.  A gallon of butyrate thinner should more than do for an airplane.  I tend to have the same preference for colors over many projects so it helps spread the cost of dope.  Also I buy butyrate clear in gallons which is a much less expensive way to go, and the shelf life (properly stored) is easily 20 years (based on my own experience, not conjecture.)

All solvent based finishes and their constituent solvents have gone way up in price over the past five years or so.  I know that you primarily finish your airplanes yourself, Bob, as opposed to using film covering so like all of us who use this dope process we have to bite the bullet & pay the price.

Someone posted that Monokote or just buying an ARF would be cheaper; that may or may not be less expensive but it is not done with the same objective in mind as finishing the model you built with dope.  For me, I like using the silkspan and dope process that I used as a kid...kind of brings back my childhood I guess and it is still a viable way to achieve a top class finish.  Plus I still value appearance points - some do and some don't; personal preference.
Bill Byles
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Offline Mike Keville

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2015, 06:14:00 PM »
I agree with Bill.  Not to say that I'm an authority on finishing (far from it) ... but in my opinion there's nothing that equals the beauty of a rubbed-out dope finish.

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Offline Les McDonald

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2015, 06:54:35 PM »
I agree with Bill.  Not to say that I'm an authority on finishing (far from it) ... but in my opinion there's nothing that equals the beauty of a rubbed-out dope finish.


Spread that cost over the lifetime of a model and it's not so bad.
This photo was taken in 2008. The finish was done in 1982!
I see people my age out there climbing mountains and zip lining and here I am feeling good about myself because I got my leg through my underwear without losing my balance

Offline Wade Bognuda

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2015, 07:07:02 PM »
When you start looking at the cost of building and finishing a model an ARF looks better and better,just got to overlook the quality and workmanship of an ARF. Reminds me of rabbit hunting. Feed the beagle, gas the truck, buy ammo,etc.
 for a handful of rabbits. Still love doing it tho. Beat going to the market for a farm raised rabbit pumped with antibiotics.🍗
Bob

Just curious here, but why would a farmer pump his rabbits full of antibiotics? Can you help me out with this one? Thanks.

Offline Shug Emery

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2015, 07:46:53 PM »
Spread that cost over the lifetime of a model and it's not so bad.
This photo was taken in 2008. The finish was done in 1982!
Work of art. The ink lines are impressive.
Shug
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Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2015, 07:58:57 PM »
   Hey Les!
   I love the pilot figure, sort of the "Wild Bill Kelso" look! My next pilot figure will get stub of a Charute in his mouth also!
   Type at you later,
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Offline Fred Cronenwett

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2015, 08:40:47 PM »
Scale models get expensive in terms of the hardware that goes into them such as retracts, servos, electronics and other high price items. If you only fly with 3-line the handle and bellcrank can cost $80 or more. Because we fly with throttle you still have an engine and fuel tank but have to control the throttle so that will add to the cost.

One of my simple models the RV-4 has flaps and electric power (with 2.4 Ghz throttle control) so I have at least $250 in additional hardware and electronics beyond the speed control and the electric motor.

And crazy me I decide to build a 4-motor B-29, that beast has about $1,200 worth of electronics, motors, batteries and it only has throttle control. and due to the size it required lots of fiberglass and resin and paint...but worth every penny every time it gets flying.

Fred
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Offline John Rist

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2015, 11:01:03 PM »
Building U-Control airplanes is still a lot cheaper per hour then drinking bear and a lot better for you.  And you don't have do-gooders telling you to do it in  moderation!!!   LL~
John Rist
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Offline kenneth cook

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2015, 03:25:47 AM »
              Do you shave the bear before you drink him?  LL~

Offline GregArdill

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2015, 03:56:44 AM »
The solution is go and find a less expensive hobby.

Yeah right - definition of a hobby " A big hole in the ground where you keep throwing money, and you never fill the hole"

If you can't afford to do it, you'll find a cheaper way.

Personally, I just don't do the calculations, it's better for my sanity. y1

Offline Larry Borden

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2015, 06:23:24 AM »
I agree with Bill also. I still use silk and dope. It takes me back to when I first started in this hobby. I haven't done Monokote since my RC days and wasn't good at covering with it.
I just enjoy doing it. I also still use Ambroid.

Offline Les McDonald

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2015, 08:00:47 AM »
   Hey Les!
   I love the pilot figure, sort of the "Wild Bill Kelso" look! My next pilot figure will get stub of a Charute in his mouth also!
   Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee

"Ya wanna hear my guns?"
I see people my age out there climbing mountains and zip lining and here I am feeling good about myself because I got my leg through my underwear without losing my balance

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2015, 11:26:38 AM »
Last summer I went to auto paint store for a gallon of reducer.  The guy behind the counter looked at me and asked if I knew there was a price increase.   Of course I didn't.  Almost four times what I paid for the gallon I got a coule of years ago.   Didn't ask about the colors and hardener as I still have a lot of a couple of colors.  But, as stated it's only money and we can't take it  with us when we go.
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Offline pipemakermike

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #35 on: February 22, 2015, 10:58:39 AM »
If you have to ask the price, you can't afford it.
Regards
Mike Nelson

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #36 on: February 22, 2015, 12:33:42 PM »
several years ago I spent $160 on Chromabase (4 pints) and a Quart of Chromaclear plus the activator.  I thought that was an insane amount, most I had ever spent on one model for color and clear.  But it was computer matched to an original piece of a famous 1960 Stunter.

It was worth it! y1

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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #37 on: February 22, 2015, 01:40:33 PM »
My wife's dog is getting his teeth cleaned Tuesday.

465.00

Did his blood work last week.

135.00

And my car needs tires.  n~
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If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Chris McMillin

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #38 on: February 24, 2015, 12:36:22 PM »
I have too many hobbies and they all cost a lot. C/L is the cheaper one, musical instruments last a long time and all the cost is generally up front. Cars cost a lot, no matter which part breaks the 100 dollar bill is the one that gets brutalized first, airplanes one can just imagine because the cheapest one is still a lot of dough, 310 bucks a month to hangar it, heck every 120 days I have to have a guy pack my chute for 50 bucks and up.

But considering what the house, kids, wife, taxes, medical, insurance, have cost/are costing me, the hobby is a mere drop in the bucket. So paint on, men! This isn't the Mobil Economy Run, this is Stunt. Make the best one you can, and fly it as much as you can. 1,000 bucks to build, 18 bucks a gallon to fly it, you're getting off easy if you fly it 500 flights and crash one a year!

Offline Vincent Judd

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #39 on: February 25, 2015, 06:07:46 PM »
What Chris said.  Cars are expensive.  A new custom built racing carburetor for my drag car............$1,000.00

Offline Mike Keville

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #40 on: February 25, 2015, 07:02:59 PM »
How times have changed!

Anyone else remember when a few 4-oz. jars of Testors STA, at .50 each, (or a few jars of Aero Gloss at .79 each) would finish a model?

<sigh>...I miss the Old Days.

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Offline Jim Kraft

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #41 on: February 25, 2015, 07:35:59 PM »
I am with you Mike. There was a time when you could buy a Ringmaster or Magician for a few bucks, a Fox 35 for maybe 16 or 17 dollars, finish it with silk or silkspan and dope for a few dollars, and buy fuel for $3.00 a gallon. The hobby was fun even for us poor folk. I have always said you can spend about all you want to on a hobby, but there are ways to do it for much less and still have fun.

The cost of travel to contests is what kills me. The cost of driving a vehicle along with meals and motels for my wife and I is getting a little past my budget. Someone said maybe I need to sell my van so I can afford new tires. I could sell my Harley and buy a mini bike. Not yet. I still love the wind in my face and it will always be worth somethiing where my planes are worth zilch. Only my old ignition engines are worth very much along with some special 4 strokes I have, but the market for those could drop at any moment. Besides, I told my wife the Harley was a good investment but we will have to hang on to it for a while like a savings bond.
Jim Kraft

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #42 on: February 26, 2015, 10:02:11 AM »
Yes, I remember when you could get a Ringmaster kit for 3.95,  Fox Stunt .35 9.95.   A couple of jars of Testors dope and a package of silk if I didn't use the silkspan in the kit.   But, back then I was not making that much money either compared to some of the guys I flew with.   My first true job I made 1.15 an hour on a 40 hour week.    Also gas was .25 a gallon normally unless there was a gas war.   Also the thought of Mother, my neice and I going to a two day Wichita contest with  one night in a motel I had 100.00 dollars on me.   We got home and I still had money in my pocket.  I flew carrier, combat and rat race.   The little motel is no more and the old site we flew at is still at the Beech field if I remember right, but maybe not.   
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #43 on: February 26, 2015, 10:22:00 AM »
Yes, I remember when you could get a Ringmaster kit for 3.95,  Fox Stunt .35 9.95.   A couple of jars of Testors dope and a package of silk if I didn't use the silkspan in the kit.   But, back then I was not making that much money either compared to some of the guys I flew with.   My first true job I made 1.15 an hour on a 40 hour week.    Also gas was .25 a gallon normally unless there was a gas war.   Also the thought of Mother, my neice and I going to a two day Wichita contest with  one night in a motel I had 100.00 dollars on me.   We got home and I still had money in my pocket.  I flew carrier, combat and rat race.   The little motel is no more and the old site we flew at is still at the Beech field if I remember right, but maybe not.   
Big Bear <><

Aberdeen, NC

James Hylton Motorsports/NASCAR/ARCA

AMA 95351 (got one of my old numbers back! ;D )

Trying to get by

Dwayne

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #44 on: February 26, 2015, 04:16:58 PM »
Being able to say  "I did that!" ..... Priceless

X10  y1

Dwayne

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #45 on: February 26, 2015, 04:22:26 PM »
Building U-Control airplanes is still a lot cheaper per hour then drinking bear and a lot better for you.  And you don't have do-gooders telling you to do it in  moderation!!!   LL~

I do both.  y1 <= #^ n~ LL~

Offline George

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #46 on: February 27, 2015, 06:39:07 AM »
Yes, I remember when you could get a Ringmaster kit for 3.95,  Fox Stunt .35 9.95.   A couple of jars of Testors dope and a package of silk if I didn't use the silkspan in the kit.   But, back then I was not making that much money either compared to some of the guys I flew with.   My first true job I made 1.15 an hour on a 40 hour week.    Also gas was .25 a gallon normally unless there was a gas war.   Also the thought of Mother, my neice and I going to a two day Wichita contest with  one night in a motel I had 100.00 dollars on me.   We got home and I still had money in my pocket.  I flew carrier, combat and rat race.   The little motel is no more and the old site we flew at is still at the Beech field if I remember right, but maybe not.   
 

My first job after high school (1960) was for $1.00/hr. The minimum wage at that time was, I believe, $.85/hr. I joined the NAVY.  H^^

Remember when you put on a high point finish you have sanded away most of the paint to get it smooth. Those of us who use mostly "utility" finishes get a break there.

George
George Bain
AMA 23454

Mike Griffin

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #47 on: March 02, 2015, 12:06:48 PM »
Allen Brickhaus had a very good finishing system that required only the following items:
 Ultracote for the wings

Minwax Polyacryclic or Finishing resin

watered down spackling compound

Rustoleum spray paint

I think his method was posted somewhere on here if you want to look it up.  I finished several models using his technique...

Mike

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #48 on: March 03, 2015, 11:55:42 AM »
Some where in my stash I have the print out Allen would pass out at the stunt clinics.   Will have to see if I can find it and scan it.   He went for simple finishes that were fairly quick and still got good appearance points.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Russell Shaffer

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Re: Cost of finish WOW!
« Reply #49 on: March 03, 2015, 01:51:41 PM »
From Allen Brickhaus, found with a Google search.  It's a forum post that he made:  


So many people have found that dope is NOT the best underbase for Rustoleum or X-O-Rust. The constant gassing off of the dope softens the upper paint and that is why it stinks for some people for a long time.

I never use dope for the base.

Use Z-Poxy or Polycrylic as the base.

Use white water based spackling compound thinned to the consistency of pancake batter over the base.

Sand and add fillets of an epoxy based material.

Fillets do not lift with this method.

You can paint in high humidity day-time hours.

Mask off the film you placed on all flying surfaces.

Spray with Rustoleum or X-O-Rust white metal primer.

Fill any dings with full strength spackling compound.

Resand and reprimer only were needed.

Remask film and paint line.

Spray your final choice of Rustoleum or X-O-Rust on the fuse/rudder.

All metallics and the clear are not fuel proof.


Russell Shaffer
Klamath Falls, Oregon
Just North of the California border


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