Author Topic: 1/2a magician question (Read 11760 times)

Rosie Rosenau · « **on:** December 22, 2014, 09:09:14 PM »

To slap it back together with a lot of patch work.... or just make a new body?

I have heard to not add flaps to this plane due to its short length? If this is the true problem then if I extend the fuselage another 6-9inches between the wing and stabilizer... Would this correct the short body issue or can I just build a standard size body and convert this wing to a new improved wing with flaps? Let me know what you all think.
Tally ho
Rosie

Rosie Rosenau · « **Reply #1 on:** December 22, 2014, 09:14:41 PM »

This is what I have been using. So far the arrowind was the best set up.

wwwarbird · « **Reply #2 on:** December 22, 2014, 09:22:22 PM »

This is a 1/2A size Magician, right? If so, keep it simple and skip the flap idea and just rebuild it as it was. If you decide to lengthen the tail moment maybe go an inch or two but 6 to 9 inches is WAY too much.

Rosie Rosenau · « **Reply #3 on:** December 22, 2014, 09:27:18 PM »

Thanks warbird. I will use these for the pattern. This time I will build it lighter than the solid slab for the body.
Rosie

Larry Renger · « **Reply #4 on:** December 23, 2014, 08:43:47 AM »

Simply moving the horizontal stab to where the hinge line is at the rear of the fuselage should give enough moment arm that you could benefit from flaps. However the model flies really well just as Silhavey designed it. If you reallywant a flapped model, the Pinto is excellent as is the Baby Paathfinder.

Rosie Rosenau · « **Reply #5 on:** December 23, 2014, 10:48:42 PM »

Gentlemen, thank you ever so much... So I will build a new body and keep it the same as before. I did some measuring and my wing is only 30 inches not 33 1/2 inches as the elevator is also a full inch shorter than the outline I used to build this magician with. Seems the body was also a tad shorter than what the plans I printed were.. All around it looks like I made THIS Magician 10% smaller than the paper plans I had printed out. This is the 2nd 1/2a magician I had scratch built back in 2005. The first had flaps but that plane was way over weight and it was just not right. So as I mentioned, I must of done a 90% version to cut weight.

Anyway I will make a new body to the 90% outline and call it good.

Thanks again to this very helpful team. I will send pics after the rebuild is completed.
Tally ho

Richard "Rosie" Rosenau Jr.
Yelm , WA.

jim gilmore · « **Reply #6 on:** December 24, 2014, 04:36:49 PM »

if built light the airplane with a 30" wing should still fly well....
Build a new plane buy all means.
That pane in the picture is 20mis from flying.I would just gule the main body parts together on a bench top covered with wax paper. Then drill a few vertical hole and add a few hardwood dowels maybe 1/8 diameter through the areas where they body split. Use epoxy on the dowels and fly again.
While at 30 inches it isn't the same size as a drawn baby magician, it's got enough wing area to fly well .

Larry Renger · « **Reply #7 on:** December 25, 2014, 10:43:38 AM »

The original had 235 sq.in. area as I recall. If so his has a 188 sq.in. wing. The Sky Sport is at 190 and can do a really good pattern. It should fly well and not make quite so much demand on the powerplant.

Bill Little · « **Reply #8 on:** December 25, 2014, 11:24:40 AM »

Hi Rosie,

I would just patch it up like Jim Gilmore says, then build a new one to the full size shown on the plans.

You do realize that Larry Ringer was the designer of the published model, right? So you are getting the good stuff straight from the man himself.

Larry really does know his stuff, especially when dealing with 1/2A models!

Good Luck and HAVE FUN!

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

Rosie Rosenau · « **Reply #9 on:** December 26, 2014, 03:44:20 PM »

Well I slapped her back together and she flew great today... Until I did a wingover and pushed full down and she nosed in the grass instead. So either I started the maneuver to late or she just did not respond like I had wished she would of. I have contacted RSM and left a message. Since it is Dec 26 I figure to hear back next week and I will try and order 2 1/2a magicians at one time. Until then I will build the Stork 1/2a for my first flapped kit ever and the first real kit in more than 10 years of just scratch building.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #10 on:** December 27, 2014, 09:42:18 AM »

That's REnger!

Rosie Rosenau · « **Reply #11 on:** December 27, 2014, 08:50:29 PM »

AND... got a phone call for the great and almighty sir Eric Rule.... master of the flying circle and such a salesman... I walked in wanting 1 little 1/2amagician and he lined me up for 2 1/2a magicians and his full size take apart magician. Now that is salamship! Honestly thank you for sending me his way.
Tally ho
Rosie

Larry Renger · « **Reply #12 on:** December 27, 2014, 11:19:23 PM »

Glad to help!

john e. holliday · « **Reply #13 on:** December 28, 2014, 02:47:33 PM »

Quote from: Rosie Rosenau on December 27, 2014, 08:50:29 PM

AND... got a phone call for the great and almighty sir Eric Rule.... master of the flying circle and such a salesman... I walked in wanting 1 little 1/2amagician and he lined me up for 2 1/2a magicians and his full size take apart magician. Now that is salamship! Honestly thank you for sending me his way.
Tally ho
Rosie

You didn't get the electric set up while you had him? MasterCard works great for stuff like this.

Rosie Rosenau · « **Reply #14 on:** March 11, 2015, 10:38:05 PM »

Well now I gone and dune did it! I got me 2 of them thar RSM 1/2a Magicians and can not be any happier. I am modifying one to have flaps and I have repositioned the elevator back.

Now the question. I noticed the flaps are different lengths. So I will take a guess that full length flaps should NOT be done. So should I make them the same length and have solid tips like a pathfinder 1/2A? I really like how the outboard flap extension is adjustable.

So do tell me team what should I do?
Tally ho
Thanks team
Rosie in Yelm, WA.

Rosie Rosenau · « **Reply #15 on:** March 14, 2015, 09:46:12 PM »

Well let's look at the flaps again... 1/16th inch... seems a tad thin/ flimsy. My Storks flaps are 3/32.

Any hints , suggestions or comments before I tempt fate?

Let me know what you think team.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #16 on:** March 14, 2015, 10:31:43 PM »

I would go with the flap lengths as is, because you can always cut some off and make it a trim tab later if needed. I usually find that on a non symmetrical wing the inboard flap is too long and the model "hinges" to the outside of a turn, tip down on a pull up and vice versa.

Rosie Rosenau · « **Reply #17 on:** March 14, 2015, 11:33:17 PM »

Well bummer or maybe perfect??? LOL.... Thank you Larry I wish I had this info a few days ago but this is what I did... both... lol first was both full length. Then measured out approx 12 inch to a point where the depth of the outer flap point was the same width give or take 1/32- 1/16th of an inch. My logic was to give equal lift but I left the outer flap adjustable like the baby pathfinder. In fact I also made the rudder adjustable as well. I add these two adjustments to all my stunters whenever possible. Thank you for the feedback

Rosie Rosenau · « **Reply #18 on:** March 16, 2015, 10:38:25 PM »

Well the answer to my flap question has been fixed. I cut off the ultra flimsy flaps and put the thicker ones on and figure 8 stitched them in. Thanks Mr Renger for that lesson. Now I use them exclusively. The Magicians are nearly flyable and in fact are flyable... Except for the slide on the Apple Red motor mounts paints needing to dry and then add a stripe of the airplanes base color, either Lime Green or Berry Pink. Yep Rustoleum rattle cans. Sprays on great.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #19 on:** March 17, 2015, 08:48:17 AM »

How about some photos?

Rosie Rosenau · « **Reply #20 on:** March 17, 2015, 03:40:45 PM »

Pictures??? Lol let's try these. The lime green with flaps has a flying weight of 560 grams. The pink non flapped has a flying weight of 530. The pink one has a 7-4 pusher triprop and the heavier lime green has a 7-5 pusher. With the power on the 7-4 triprop does not pull as hard as the 7-5 pusher. How did I figure that you ask.... started it pointing straight up and held on to the outer wing tip and the 7-4 lifted the body up and held it there. The 7-5 prop caused the plane to lift up and over the fingers. Do not know what a 7-4 pusher regular prop would do compared to the 7-5 pusher regular so I put the 7-5 on the heavier flapped magician and the Triprop on the lighter non flapped.

Pictures you asked for. Let me try these one at a time so I do not loss my entire message

Rosie Rosenau · « **Reply #21 on:** March 17, 2015, 03:43:14 PM »

This pic you can see the modifications needed for the flapped version... is moved the stabilizer and elevator back. The flaps are 3/32 not flimsy 1/16

Rosie Rosenau · « **Reply #22 on:** March 17, 2015, 03:50:48 PM »

The other side of the planes. Still just held in place with rubber bands to find a CG and a close as possible final flying weight

Rosie Rosenau · « **Reply #23 on:** March 17, 2015, 03:53:07 PM »

The otherwise again just temporally rubber banded in place to find a CG and the final flying weight

Rosie Rosenau · « **Reply #24 on:** March 17, 2015, 04:01:04 PM »

As a general rule of thumb I like to use clear or transparent on at least the bottom of my wings so I can inspect the ribs for any fatigue. . The pink was my first attempt and I removed the wood from behind the canopy to elevator area but did not add the uprights though that area and just put the thin skin over it instead. I realized to late my error and glued or fiberglassed the body with parachute material both sides and cap strips all the way around the bodies edge. Looks horrible but it should be strong. Also I failed to thin down either of the bodies tail section of the fuselage nor sand the body into a cats eye. Instead just rounded the edges and ended up with a set of heavier magicians. Not to worry for come next Tuesday I will be calling Eric up at RSM for 2 more 1/2a magicians.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #25 on:** March 18, 2015, 08:46:50 AM »

Have you flown them yet? They look good.

Dane Martin · « **Reply #26 on:** March 18, 2015, 09:51:37 AM »

Hey Rosie,
Did you say the pink was rustoleum? Is it the florescent pink?

Rosie Rosenau · « **Reply #27 on:** March 18, 2015, 03:34:46 PM »

Being color blind it makes colors a whole lot of fun for me. Yes I paint with rustoleum and name was Berry Pink. Not a bad shade to me the lime green is super bright yellow. The green gov lights at traffic stops are white to me. What's more fun is I build military models and have to use the DOD number system rather the name of the colors.

The Rustoleum X2 is super nice as it comes out and really does cover twice as much as regular paint cans.

After a few weeks this paint is cured and I can run my gas engines and not worry about gas penetration. The other plus is I can buy it at Walmart and I have almost all their colors. May need to paint the next plain in every part has its own color... Call the plane JP Patches

The pics were current say 30 mins old from posting on here so they have not flown yet. Any comments on how much throw my flaps and elevator should be? What degrees? Right now its throw is more than my Stork and Pathfinder.

Thanks for the help team. Now time to get home from my VA appointment and do some soldiering. Then attach some Velcro to the Magician's.

jim gilmore · « **Reply #28 on:** March 18, 2015, 11:39:58 PM »

Hello R R. I really like the way your models look. Want to know how well they fly. Thats the size Model I like to fly and build.
Now a question. Did you paint the rustolem right on the whole wing prior to the clear covering

are the ribs colors all the way or just the edges look colored to me ?? from your photo I can only see the edge of the rib so cannot see if the ribs are over sprayed or not.
The planes look good to me.

Rosie Rosenau · « **Reply #29 on:** March 19, 2015, 12:03:21 AM »

I have not yet flown them yet. The ribs were painted from all angles before I added the clear mono coat. I normally clear coat the complete airframe and after 3 coats with light standings between coats to try and fill in any and all gaps before I add the paint. The lime green Magician has probably 7-9 full coats. Only reason was due to changed parts like the 1/16 to 3/32 flaps. I have been running into some paint wrinkles but my best guess the wrinkles not runs were due to too heavy of a coat. Not positive. I finished soldiering all the ESC today. Tomorrow I will place the Velcro on the slip on motor pod so it stays balanced. The Pink Magician ends up needing 1/2 ounce of lead in the tail section to balance out. I will try to eliminate that added weight by placing as much of the battery ESC and timer as far back but still on the motor pod as possible. As far as power... I started them up and pinched the outer wingtip and let the plane hover. The pink with the tri-prop holds the plane up but at about 15 degrees down of the wings being level to the ground. The lime green one with the regular prop goes up and over... lol these tri-props and just not as good as the 7-5 pusher props. My god kids watchede do this test in my kitchen and they just LOL at the different.

jim gilmore · « **Reply #30 on:** March 19, 2015, 02:39:34 AM »

What exactly is the clear covering??

Rosie Rosenau · « **Reply #31 on:** March 19, 2015, 10:15:54 AM »

Covering is clear Monokote part # TOPQ0200. The first plane I made this season. The Stork.. I applied the Monokote 2 hours after I applied the paint and it was dry to the touch. Well that was all good UNTIL I added heat to the Monokote and the paint peeled right off the plane and wrecked the new sheet of Monokote. After that OPPS I let my paint cure at least 48 hours. No more problems.

Duke.Johnson · « **Reply #32 on:** March 19, 2015, 10:56:50 AM »

I started using this clear covering some call "new stuff" or laminating film on my new RC slope glider. It's super cheap and you can buy it in different thickness, I used the 1.7M.

Rosie Rosenau · « **Reply #33 on:** March 20, 2015, 01:33:16 PM »

OK I have airtime on BOTH airframes and flown 10 flights between the two. The pink non flapped flew OK. Not as good as a stork but OK. I will fly it again with a closer line setting. All flights are done on 35 ft lines so she has not gotten loose at all. Actually neither got loose. The lime green one has WAY too much throw with my SIG 1/2a handle. So I adjusted the closet set from 3 1/2 inch spread to 1 inch. She stopped wagging when I pulled up or gave down. But of course it was just to soft so I tried the 2 1/4;spread went back to wagging when hard up or down given.

jim gilmore · « **Reply #34 on:** March 23, 2015, 09:25:10 PM »

Did the powerplants your using come from the same place?
Did the kits come from rsm ?
If not where please..

Rosie Rosenau · « **Reply #35 on:** March 23, 2015, 09:41:56 PM »

These are 100% RSM Eric Rule 1/2A Magicians and they are to say the least AWESOME quality kits! The ESC and electric motors are both from Hobbyking.

jim gilmore · « **Reply #36 on:** March 28, 2015, 02:50:05 PM »

Quote from: Rosie Rosenau on December 27, 2014, 08:50:29 PM

AND... got a phone call for the great and almighty sir Eric Rule.... master of the flying circle and such a salesman... I walked in wanting 1 little 1/2amagician and he lined me up for 2 1/2a magicians and his full size take apart magician. Now that is salamship! Honestly thank you for sending me his way.
Tally ho
Rosie

what precisely is Salamship

?

Rosie Rosenau · « **Reply #37 on:** March 28, 2015, 09:09:05 PM »

Salesmanship... Thank you for catching my booboo but if that was the only booboo then I am happy with that. As for the magicians with flaps... I added washers to the top two screws to make the thrust line in order. Corrected the elevator that was a full 1 1/2 CM off. And I have put my batteries to the outside of my fuselages on any and all electric control line kits. I also removed 1/8 of OZ of the 1/2oz. So far so good and I am loving it.

RK · « **Reply #38 on:** April 05, 2015, 08:24:54 PM »

Hello Rosie!

I just caught up with this line and want to say how much I like your planes! They look great!!

Also If you catch up with Duke Johnson you couldnt find a nicer guy to fly with & tell him Richard said hello from Kentucky!

RK Flyer

Duke.Johnson · « **Reply #39 on:** April 05, 2015, 08:35:32 PM »

Richard-How the heck are you? PM coming your way.

Rosie Rosenau · « **Reply #40 on:** April 05, 2015, 09:32:26 PM »

I will do that for you Richard. Duke is a great guy and I just got two more RSM 1/2a magicians that are redesigned for flaps and electric and for $88 a price. I will just keep buying from Eric Rule RSM. These have the flap to elevator distance to match today's best pattern stunt planes.

Duke.Johnson · « **Reply #41 on:** April 05, 2015, 10:06:57 PM »

Thanks for all the kind words Rosie and Richard.

Rosie-We need to get together again and fly.

Mark Mc · « **Reply #42 on:** April 06, 2015, 10:54:49 AM »

I was curious, so I looked on the RSM website, but couldn't find a listing for the 1/2A Magician. Where on the website do I find it?

Thanks,
Mark

Rosie Rosenau · « **Reply #43 on:** April 06, 2015, 11:12:07 AM »

The Magicians 1/2A are a call him item. If you like a flapped version of the plane just let Eric know that and if you mention the same setup as he just sent out to Rosie up in WA state. I am sure he will get you just what you desire. I have emailed Eric to let him know the kits made it here and looked great! I also noted that folks here on the forum have been asking about the flapped version and noted he might be hearing from you all... So far it is you but I am thrilled with the 1/2a magicians.

Duke.Johnson · « **Reply #44 on:** April 06, 2015, 03:31:44 PM »

Mark
Rosie's 1/2A Magicians are for preformance 1/2A's, they are the size of a .15 size plane, about 200 sq in. They would do great with a Big Mig, and flew well on electric for Rosie. Rosie is working on trimming his, then they will fly great.
Duke

Rosie Rosenau · « **Reply #45 on:** April 06, 2015, 04:20:27 PM »

Just as long as I do not try a wing over at the end of the run and the ESC slows down for half a second. It just happened to be the half second I was pulling out.... lol body repair is being done as we speak... pops
Thanks for the positive inputs Duke... Then again you are a straight shooter and has always been there for me and many other folks. That to me is what modeling is all about. Sharing the hobby.

Tally ho
Rosie

Duke.Johnson · « **Reply #46 on:** April 06, 2015, 06:51:53 PM »

Just trying to pass it forward. Everyone helps me and I'm glad to pass along my limited knowledge. I saw your PM, just trying to find a day to fly. I'll let you know.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #47 on:** April 07, 2015, 12:21:40 AM »

Due to the rights issues, Eric can not make an official kit. But he can cut you a set of parts for some custom design you want. Of course, if he happens to have that cut file in his hard drive....

As far as model size is concerned, most designers have not realized that when scaling down, go to the next smaller wood size when in doubt. The Midwest .15 Magician was an overweight abortion. The one I developed was a proper scale down of the original as designed by Jim Silhavey before a couple of kit manufacturers got ahold of it. And I have photos and letters to prove it.

If you want a full size, authentic, original, get my plans scaled up and go for it. But! If you find a piece that is non standard size, go one size larger!!! The opposite from scaling down.

jim gilmore · « **Reply #48 on:** April 07, 2015, 02:37:01 AM »

I have one on the way from ER already.Though I did not wish to deal with flaps. BTDT on 1/2A enough. Ordered a full electric setup. Should be in my po box already. Just did not get to the po box to get it earlier.
I'll let you all know what I think and provide photos as I build it.
Jim Gilmore

Rosie Rosenau · « **Reply #49 on:** April 07, 2015, 08:37:13 PM »

Looking forward to seeing the build pics. Keep the Magicians flying.... lol