Author Topic: nats sport goodyear (Read 5402 times)

bob whitney · « **on:** December 20, 2014, 05:24:53 PM »

how many of the texas Boys will be going to the nats to fly Sport GoodYear?

bill bischoff · « **Reply #1 on:** December 20, 2014, 08:25:23 PM »

Nothing cast in stone, but possibly 1)Bischoff 2)Greb 3)Lee 4)Hempel 5)Gleason 6)Cranfill 7)Oliver 8&9) Barnes and Barnes. Why do you ask?

bob whitney · « **Reply #2 on:** December 20, 2014, 09:46:35 PM »

our dist rep Jim Bradley was wondering and i said i would inquire for him. he is looking at building one for the nats

bill bischoff · « **Reply #3 on:** December 21, 2014, 01:03:19 AM »

I thought he already started on one.

bob whitney · « **Reply #4 on:** December 21, 2014, 02:35:17 PM »

in the dictionary under slow u will see his picture

he needs some motivation

john e. holliday · « **Reply #5 on:** December 21, 2014, 04:53:08 PM »

Not for the NATS, but as I couldn't remember where in the mess I put my goodyear plans Melvin sent some copies. Have started framing up the wing. Hopefully have it done before May.

Fred Quedenfeld jr · « **Reply #6 on:** December 23, 2014, 05:02:05 AM »

how can we build one IF we do not have the Plans
When will you have the plans available?
Fred T Q

Bob Heywood · « **Reply #7 on:** December 23, 2014, 06:11:51 AM »

Quote from: Fred Quedenfeld jr on December 23, 2014, 05:02:05 AM

how can we build one IF we do not have the Plans
When will you have the plans available?
Fred T Q

Numerous plans are readily available from AMA Plans Service, MAN (Air Age Store.com), and SIG. I don't have a comprehensive list for AMA but I do know "Lil' Quickie" is one of them. Air Age has John Kilsdonk's "Rickey Rat" Shoestring and John Penhallow's "Long Midget". From Sig you can get plans for their "Buster" and "Shoestring" or you can just build one of their kits. I suspect for Sport Goodyear they would be competitive if well built.

Richard Imhoff · « **Reply #8 on:** December 23, 2014, 08:53:54 PM »

If you need plans I have quite a few, a couple of bucks and I'll send you a CD with 16 GoodYear plans and pictures, most came out of model mags..
Can be printed with Adobe or Paint in sections and taped together or take to a copy shop.
here's a list.

The "Ace" by Dave Cowburn

"Argander" Special by David Giles

"Buster" by Sig

"Cassutt" "Boo Ray" by Matt Smith

"Falcon Special" by John Kilsdonk

"GeeBee super Sportser" by Cal Smith

"Leihnor" by Cal Smith

"Little Gem" by D.C. Clarkson

"Miget Mustang" by Cal Smith

"Minnow" by John Pennallon

" Miss San Bernardino" by Dave Rudd

"Nemesis" by Dave Braun

"Pitts Special" by Chuck Grozis

"Rivets" by George Funk

"Swee pea" by Paul Plecan

"Mr D & Ol Blue" by Dave Clarkson

bill bischoff · « **Reply #9 on:** December 23, 2014, 11:29:55 PM »

I don't know what the British Goodyear rules are compared to AMA Scale Race, but many of the plans I have seen are not within the scale tolerances set forth in the AMA rules. Of course, the Brit's also allow single wheel LG, where we require two wheels, and they must exit the airplane from the scale location. That means Rivets, Ol' Blue and others which have wing mounted gear on the real plane must have wing mounted gear on the model as well. Just a heads up.

Richard Imhoff · « **Reply #10 on:** December 24, 2014, 08:01:58 PM »

I didn't know the post was about British Racing rules I was under the impression it was SPORT RACING possibly at the Nat's and if you are really promoting Sport racing I don't think where the hell the wheels come from makes any difference in Sport Racing.

I would not use a Rivets in racing anyway as the big taper wing makes it a bitch to catch, the one I made fly's exceptional in the wind takes off and locks into level sweet and just plows the wind. I use it for a 16 lap speed event we fly around here if it's windy.

Your Super Cassutt model of Dave Morse's "Cool Running's" looks real nice, cheek cowl not scale looking but looks OK.

We get normally about 12 to 14 entrants around here when we fly Goodyears and some might want to fly at the Nat's since we use plain bearing 15's only in the rules we use here in Mich. and the planes the guys have will work only need to install shut off's if your going to allow them.

bill bischoff · « **Reply #11 on:** December 24, 2014, 09:44:19 PM »

I refer you and all interested parties to www.dmaa-1902.org, where the rules can be read in their entirety. As indicated, the Sportsman Goodyear rules are a modification of AMA Scale Racing. I joined AMA in 1974, and as far as I can remember, the landing gear has always been required to exit the model from the scale location. Cheek cowls have been, and continue to be, allowed but not required. As far as shutoffs, they are expressly allowed in the DMAA rules. Also note that with plain bearing engines, exposed control systems are not required. The Enya 15 on a slick airplane may be very competitive!

Fortunately, there is still plenty of time for everyone to make sure they are in compliance.

BTW, I mention British rules because some of the plans listed came from "across the pond", particularly those by Dave Clarkson. What's legal there may not be legal here.

Les Akre · « **Reply #12 on:** December 25, 2014, 11:16:02 PM »

While we're on the subject of compliance...Air intake scoops, which are a reality on any full size Formula 1, are often found omitted on some plan sets, and by some individuals when they construct their models. Just to reaffirm, although AMA rules allow an additional 5% reduction after scaling, this does not mean that one can also eliminate major components or change the basic plan form of the original Airplane in the interest of easier construction, or a creating a more streamlined model. I have seen many models that were processed and allowed to compete at various contests in the past that were clearly not in compliance with the rules. If we're going to have compliance, we need to have it across the board, and not just certain areas.

Les

john e. holliday · « **Reply #13 on:** December 26, 2014, 08:55:45 AM »

In other words match the three views with all details or no flying allowed. I think this nit picking is getting to where it is causing people not to compete.

Richard Imhoff · « **Reply #14 on:** December 26, 2014, 12:43:30 PM »

And this thread started out about SPORT SCALE but now it's getting to serious for me. I like to try to get more guys into the event not drive them away with the nit picking rules that make no difference on performance, up here in Mich we got at least five more entrants in our version of Sport scale by allowing electric starters because the older guys and new guys who don't know how to set up a motor to start hot think it evens up the competition.
The starters really helped out Foxberg racing we almost doubled the entrants by allowing them, and the racing is much better. Our Foxberg rules allow Fox 35's or McCoy 35 red heads simply because most old guys have one or the other laying around.

The starters did not change the results hardly at all but the guy with his OS Max 15 2 could get it started hot and at least have a chance.

The Sport Scale event "if run at the 15 Nat's" looks like it will be just another Texas club race. There is not much you can do to save racing as in a few more years it will be gone, 10 years ago there were 17 teams flying and last year 3 showed up in Scale racing.

With no new blood coming up in the CL events most will be gone along with the Control line Nat's in 10 years or less.

If I was still living in Houston I would be racing and flying with you guys but when the RC car fad died and business fell to the point of not enough sales to keep the 4 stores going I closed all the hobby shops and came back to Mich.

BillLee · « **Reply #15 on:** December 26, 2014, 01:00:52 PM »

Dick, you're bit off base.

This thread did NOT start as "SPORT SCALE" as you said. Please go back and take a look. It started when Whitney asked who might be at the NATs to fly the Sport GY event as is being sponsored by the Texas bunch.

To criticize the event as being "just another Texas club race": well, what should you expect? After all, this particular event was created by the Texans, flown actively by the Texans, sponsored at the NATs by the Texans. Seems a bit silly to expect it to be anything other than dominated (this year) by the Texans!

I believe everyone here is quite happy that your rules in Detroit work as well as they do. Surely nobody will criticize you for doing something to energize racing there.

Just that the Dallas rules seem to have hit a very sympathetic chord in many areas, and we're quite happy to bring the trophies and the officials and the competitors to Muncie this summer to allow folks to participate.

Perhaps y'all in Detroit might consider doing the same for 2016! Show the world how well your rules work!

Paul Smith · « **Reply #16 on:** December 26, 2014, 02:48:26 PM »

I've never seen Imhoff in Detroit. Battle Creek, Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, and Saint Louis. But not Detroit.

Richard Imhoff · « **Reply #17 on:** December 26, 2014, 07:52:28 PM »

Well Paul since the 4 clubs that run the Tour "D" Michigan asked you not to come back I guess you won't. I know you and Moria well since the mid 70's when I was big into combat in Mich, even then we never saw much of you in Combat. I moved to Houston and few with the guys down there a few years untill I got involved in RC boat racing and RC cars

Now since you only fly with the three guys in Detroit and a few more in Canada, sorry Brodaks also you won't see much of me.

Motorman · « **Reply #18 on:** December 26, 2014, 08:58:29 PM »

Quote from: Les Akre on December 25, 2014, 11:16:02 PM

While we're on the subject of compliance...Air intake scoops, which are a reality on any full size Formula 1, are often found omitted
Les

That's true allot of guys leave off the air scoop and even if they build it on there it quickly gets scraped off on a nose over. That being said most air scoops are just little bumps in profile view. In the grand scheme of things are they really worth the fuss? Maybe so. One guy in our club swore there was a club rule we could leave the air scoop off. He had actually found a GY racer with a giant airscoop and left it off for the sharpest nose you ever saw and that model was definitely faster than the fat nose models. Check out the Loki.

MM

john e. holliday · « **Reply #19 on:** December 27, 2014, 11:42:20 AM »

Yes Texas has done a lot to try an improve the Sport Goodyear rules to get people involved. The original rules were written up by Bill Wright and Jim Dunkin to try and get more club members to race. At that time the Fox .15 with the big back plate was being produced. Started out it had to be plain bearing, but then the ball bearing engines were allowed as they were not that much faster in stock configuration. I was the winner in the first race ran at the old Swope Park circle using a Sig Shoestring that was box stock except for the lead outs being buried in the wing. No shut offs and 1 ounce fuel tank. I haven't won another race since. Last year I was there in Dallas for the initial showing of the new engine on the Sport Goodyears. They looked very competitive and not so fast that any one with a little practice can be competitive. Did watch a pilot sleeping on the handle at the start of a flight. Was not pretty. As I stated new people need practice. When My son started racing I would be told I was wasting time by looking to see if he was ready when I restarted an engine. Once I got to where I could depend on him, the plane would be turned loose as soon as the engine fired.