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Author Topic: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?  (Read 5838 times)

Offline Chris_Rud

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Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« on: November 27, 2014, 03:09:56 PM »
Is there any issue with a PA or RO Jett when it's below freezing? I just wasn't sure if the massive temperature change between a hot engine to cold matters with a bar stock engine.

Can u fly electric when it's this cold?

-Chris Rud

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2014, 03:28:32 PM »
Is there any issue with a PA or RO Jett when it's below freezing? I just wasn't sure if the massive temperature change between a hot engine to cold matters with a bar stock engine.

  It will run fine. The problem is getting is started without killing yourself. My PA, in particular, got very cranky when it was cold out, like <50. And your fingers get numb, adding to the risk. I just wait until it warms up, while thinking up excuses to do something else.

   Brett

Offline peabody

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2014, 03:35:24 PM »
Hi Chris....
Lighter fluid makes starting a LOT easier!
The GSCB folks are pretty hardy....two years in a row we flew on New Years day when it was 6* or so....
We gotem' all going.

Offline John Paris

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2014, 04:03:49 PM »
Chris,
Not sure about your specific engine but have flown a number of different engines in sub freezing weather over the last 10 or so years both here and in Korea without any issue.  Peabody's suggestion about lighter fluid is good and will save some flipping.  I have also flown electric sub zero and near freezing.  I generally keep the batteries in a cooler and then place one in the airplane with the next one in my pocket.  Worked fine yesterday at 33 degrees.  Textured jersey gloves are helpful when flying as well.  Oh yeah, don't goof around gething out to the handle if someone is holding for you.  That prop wash is mighty cool.....
John
« Last Edit: November 27, 2014, 04:31:59 PM by John Paris »
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Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2014, 04:27:48 PM »
  Our local club has always had a few of us participate in the AMA "All Season Flying Patch" program. It's a simple goal and helps keep the interest in the winter months. I don't fly any of my "good stuff."  That is what I have what I call "foo foo" airplanes for. Flite Streak ARFs, Ringmasters and such. Watch for the best weather possible, and then get two quick flights! Not too difficult in the St. Louis area winters. I gotta admire the guys farther north that do it! I make sure I bring the model inside over night to warm up. Fuel and starter box also. I head to the field at the desired time, get set up as quick as possible, and starting isn't usually an issue. Get two quick flights then head back to the warmth! Everything is more brittle when it gets closer to the freezing point. Iron on coverings, silkspan and dope, FINGERS! as Bret pointed out. Even if Randy Smith told me face to face in  person that it would be of no detriment to running a PA 75 in extreme weather, I'm sure the cold world make carbon props a little more brittle and that's reason enough to leave them hanging on the wall.It's fun to do for the quick adventure of it, but I feel no way to get comfortable enough for any meaningful practice or trimming of a new model done.
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Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2014, 04:29:24 PM »
Chris,
A few things help to get you going in colder weather. First, keep the ship in a warm car before the first start. Second, is the lighter fluid prime. It only takes a few drops (don't flood it) and several flips forward and backward before hooking up the battery. Third, at least a full charge to the starting battery, even better use a starting battery that is 1.5 volt (could use 2 volts if you have the plug that can take it). Last, keep a starter handy just in case.

Best,       DennisT

Offline frank williams

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2014, 05:02:32 PM »
Flying below fifty is not recommended ........ what? ... you said freezing? ....holy cow, you've got to be kidding!

Offline Will Hinton

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2014, 05:16:29 PM »
What Frank said! ~^
John 5:24   www.fcmodelers.com

Offline Chris_Rud

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2014, 06:27:53 PM »
I'm not worried about me in the cold... Going to wear snowmobile attire. Just curious if its bad for the engine I'm lucky that my field is plowed sometimes and wouldn't mind putting up a few flights each month. Was more curious than anything thanks everyone!

Offline David Hoover

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2014, 07:03:02 PM »
I've flown at temperatures down to about -5 C (23 F) and the worst part I found was cleaning the congealed goop off the plane after flying.  That and spilling fuel on my hands - man is that cold!  And the prop wash as previously mentioned.  I'm now flying electric but haven't tried it in the cold weather - yet.
Life is simple. Eat. Sleep. Fly!
Best, Hoovie

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2014, 07:14:04 PM »
I'm not worried about me in the cold... Going to wear snowmobile attire. Just curious if its bad for the engine I'm lucky that my field is plowed sometimes and wouldn't mind putting up a few flights each month. Was more curious than anything thanks everyone!

 I have flown, in the past, in the 20s with no particular problems. Cutting your fingers off might be a problem, but the engine doesn't care.

    Brett

Offline bob whitney

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2014, 07:23:48 PM »

 do u need a special thermometer to check sub zero temps, mine only go's down to + 50 deg
rad racer

Offline Paul Walker

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2014, 08:16:48 PM »
Be careful with the humidity. Too much and you will ice the lines and LE. They don't fly so well that way.

Ask me how I know!

Offline RknRusty

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2014, 08:24:11 PM »
If you use lighter fluid, Ronsonol, etc., don't forget to have a good sized clean rag handy while you're priming and cranking. The fluid is more likely to catch on fire than just plain glow fuel. Mostly a hazard on engines without mufflers.

1/2A guys have had success wrapping yarn to fill the cooling fins on the head so the engine runs warm enough. The little ones are what I've heard of catching fire more so than the big ones.
Rusty
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2014, 08:25:01 PM »
I keep my starting battery in my pocket when it's cold -- it really helps with starting.  With that plus lighter fluid, I've never had a problem.

There's some minimum temperature for LiPo cells, and I think it's above freezing -- keeping them in the car or in your pocket is probably a good idea (take them out if they burst into flame, though).
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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2014, 08:39:51 PM »
The run time is often a problem, with either IC or EC (Electric Combustion). Always short, never long. Your tank may not hold enough for the pattern. Ditto for the usual battery.

Shivering will cause control input oscillations that never coincide with any trim induced grooving problems to zero them out.   f~ Steve

PS: It's been warm enough here to go out with only jeans and a T-shirt...under your raincoat.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2014, 09:21:32 PM by Steve Helmick »
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Offline Dalton Hammett

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2014, 09:05:02 PM »
Our club up here in the Erie area does the All Weather Flier thing also, we even see the use of ski's on planes now and then.
Dalton Hammett  
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Offline RknRusty

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2014, 09:05:58 PM »
PS: It's been warm enough here to go out with only jeans and a T-shirt...under your raincoat.
Yeah us too, but Tuesday it was cool with heavy overcast, low 50s, 98% humidity, and we couldn't crank anything by hand. 46fx, ST45, or Fox Stunt 35. Thank goodness I just bought an electric starter to relieve my unforgiving shoulder. Once cranked, they all ran marvelously. Humidity maybe? I don't know.
Rusty
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Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2014, 10:39:41 PM »
Flying at 20 degrees...That's why I went to all the trouble to move to Tucson...Why would I go somewhere to fly at 20 degrees when I can just stay here and fly at 70 degrees!!!   <= <= LL~ LL~

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Offline bob whitney

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2014, 11:01:54 PM »


  an other trick that we use on diesels is to put O-rings around the cylinder and it will hold the heat in so it wont cool down once in the air
rad racer

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2014, 02:09:18 AM »
  I've flown year round since 1990 I only started using an electric starter in the last 10 years never had trouble getting my stuff to run right.  It does freeze the fingers when adjusting the needle. As cool as 24 degrees.
  John

Online kenneth cook

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2014, 02:58:49 AM »
              All you do is pour Ronsonol all over the engine and light it first to get some heat into it.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 01:52:53 PM by kenneth cook »

Offline Chris Gilbert IRL-1638

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2014, 06:43:21 AM »
I'll second Pauls comment.

The one time I tried it the lines were fine at the handle but sheathed in 1/8 in diameter ice at the model and every leading edge, apart from the prop  (wings, tailplane, fin, cockpit, front fuselage) was sheathed in a beautiful ice mould when I finally managed to land the model. Unresponsive does not begine to describe the flight condition.  :-\

Funny, no problem starting the motors either, though some model diesel does help if that is to hand.

Great morning though. At least we got some flights in that morning, unlike the local RC flyers.

Chris
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Offline Dennis Moritz

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2014, 06:55:35 AM »
Danny's flying a Ringer with a Fox 35. Might be the one that won Classic at Huntersville a few years back. Scored a 537, I believe. NATs judges? Often Nats judges label points at Huntersville. A flea market Ringer. Well. Yeah. But. Doug Benedetti built it. A very talented silker. Plus 500 point Skyply, wheezy FP20 (with a stock muffler, yet!), I'm not really impressed.

Offline Jeff Traxler

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2014, 07:03:18 AM »
Hey Chris,I put my batteries on the dashboard by the defroster.3 flights in a half hour and your back in the warm vehicle.Let's go flyin'......
If you wanna sing the blues(Fly Stunt) you gotta pay your dues and "I know it don't come easy"

Offline Phil Spillman

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2014, 08:33:07 AM »
I once went flying in western PA with the temps. at 17 degrees! Had to shovel a strip to get off the ground! Well everything froze! The batteries went dead, the stooge wouldn't release, too much castor oil residue, so I packed up and went home! Came back two days later with a balmy 19 degrees in evidence had to re shovel the snow but I flew! Great fun! Now that I've broken my all weather flying stint, replaced knee no flying for 6 weeks, I won't go when the climate is too darn cold!

Tally Ho,

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2014, 09:03:37 AM »
Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing? Yes it freezing! It's just too cold to be outside unless you're a bear.
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Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2014, 09:41:41 AM »
Indoor free flight.

I tried to winter-fly back when I really needed to test things.   No more frozen feet and fingers for me.  Other than hooking up the lines, electric outdoor CL wouldn't be so bad.
Paul Smith

Offline dale gleason

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2014, 09:54:25 AM »
Hi Chris,
Always wear your hat.
dg

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2014, 10:24:21 AM »
Flying in sub freezing temps is for those that want to keep their all season patch going.  I used to do with my son.   We even broke in a new Fox .35 Stunt with a foot of snow on the ground.   John Bender would call me and say lets go flying there no wind.   Temps in low 20F degrees and ice on the ground.  No more for this old man now.   But, I almost did it the other day when the temp was in the 30F degrees until I tried to open the door and the wind blew it shut.  Just remembered my first Ice-O-Lated in St Louis,  Emmy and I left early that morning.   About Columbia MO the Ford said it was 27F degrees.  By the time we got to Buder it had gotten up to the mid 30's.   Engines started great and when we left the ford said it was back down to the 40's.    Emmy slept all the way home with her trophy and showed it off at school the next day.   I won't mention the last Ice-O-Lated as Willow did my Flying Clown in as well as bending the crank on the Fox .15.  The blood I left on the circle should be gone by now.   Man those props are sharp when it is cold and windy.   Still had a lot of fun. 
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Offline Sean McEntee

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2014, 10:29:47 AM »
Winter= building season
Spring, Summer and fall= flying season

That's how it's been done for millions of years..... ;)

Offline Joe Yau

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2014, 10:32:37 AM »
Is there any issue with a PA or RO Jett when it's below freezing? I just wasn't sure if the massive temperature change between a hot engine to cold matters with a bar stock engine.

Can u fly electric when it's this cold?

-Chris Rud

I've flown in temperature around -8C with my piped .40VF Saturn last year..  With no lighter fluid, it would not fire up.. no bump what so ever!   Then with the lighter fluid.. it fires up like normal just bumping off the compression.  I find it's more of an issue flying with my hand in the cold.. sure got stiff fast during those level laps.  

Online kenneth cook

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2014, 01:56:51 PM »
                     The problem is finding a launcher to hold the plane. It makes your hands sooooooo cold!!!!!!. Ken

Offline jim gevay

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2014, 02:43:06 PM »
God what a bunch of pansies, sure you get cold, but you can warm up after you get home, it's not the end of the world.
This is what the Piston Poppers do every year on January 1st.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/control-lines-231/9381091-minneapolis-piston-poppers-new-years-freeze-fly.html

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2014, 04:00:17 PM »
God what a bunch of pansies, sure you get cold, but you can warm up after you get home, it's not the end of the world.
This is what the Piston Poppers do every year on January 1st.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/control-lines-231/9381091-minneapolis-piston-poppers-new-years-freeze-fly.html

   Call names all you want. You know when my fingers never go numb and never get cut by a prop? When I am sitting on the couch watching TV in front of the heater vent!

    Brett

Offline Garf

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2014, 04:33:39 PM »
Winter= building season
Spring, Summer and fall= flying season

That's how it's been done for millions of years..... ;)
It's not that way in Miami. Trying to fly here in summer, you cook. We fly all "winter" here.

Offline Michael Palm

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #36 on: November 28, 2014, 04:49:53 PM »
We do it up in 56 degrees North also.
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #37 on: November 28, 2014, 04:59:24 PM »
We do it up in 56 degrees North also.

I knew there was a reason not to make disparaging comments about southern Californian wimps when the worst that you have to contend with in the Willamette Valley is the occasional 25F day.
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Offline Steve Riebe

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #38 on: November 28, 2014, 06:26:33 PM »
I would hold for you just about anytime Chris. I heard near 50 this weekend?

Offline Steve Scott

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #39 on: November 28, 2014, 08:45:14 PM »
To keep your planes warm in sub-freezing (or is it sub-zero?) weather you put long johns on it.

To keep your fingers from going numb you dunk them in the pot of chili.

Yes, starter fluid is usually required.





Offline Phil Krankowski

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #40 on: November 28, 2014, 09:27:55 PM »
I fly Cox .049's in the winter pretty regularly.  A few turns of yarn tied into the cooling fins on the head does wonders with preventing over cooling.  The first run is tricky, run a whole tank through on the ground  (a couple minutes) Restarts are a lot easier than the initial start.

Phil

Offline YakNine

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #41 on: November 29, 2014, 05:57:53 PM »
I add about 10% Coleman fuel to the fuel if its below 40 , I have 2 engines an Enya .09 III and a thunder tiger gp 15 with a sprinkler venturi with 3 tiny holes that flat out will not draw fuel when its that cold out I think the castor might thicken a little bit . My Sig Buster with a Fox 15X is my go to cold weather plane  Glow Devil Short plug and a ST needle valve and they are real easy starters if given a prime of lighter fluid. My bigger planes are usually in the infirmary after the summer season but I like my one Ringer with a Fox .35 if its still flyable its old and oil soaked but still fun in the winter but its definitely out of commission for this winter I think I am going to get some Corehouse Foam wings for it. Don't forget your Thermos of hot Coffee and gloves that are thin enough to be able to hold your handle.T.J.
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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2014, 09:54:24 PM »
>:D

Offline Dennis Moritz

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #43 on: December 06, 2014, 11:48:59 PM »
Lighter fluid. Electric starters. Nicads need to be thoroughly charged. Three is a nice number. Keep two warm in the car (or your pocket). Swap as needed. New dry cells can help. Probably a control panel and a 12 volt would work better. I used to use them all the time. Problem was, when I cranked the electric starter, voltage to the plug dropped. To compensate I increased voltage to the plug. This reduced plug life quite a bit. How bad is your arthritis? My back acts up in the cold, if I'm not cautious. Some folks in our club love flying in the cold. Dan can't wait for snow. He makes skies to fit over landing gear wheels. If the suns out and we keep walking around, two or three hours goes bye quick. 

Offline Scott Richlen

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #44 on: December 07, 2014, 05:28:37 AM »
Are you guys all nuts?  When it gets 55 out it's time to roll up the lines!  Heck, I could get attacked by a polar bear!  (I hear that they are frequent visitors to Virginia...)

Scott

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #45 on: December 07, 2014, 09:14:53 AM »
It seems that Radio Control is frequently done below freezing. Clearly Radio Control people and their planes are tougher than Control Liners.

 S?P

For electric, batteries don't like being cold, so  a battery that does 8 minutes OK when warm might quit much earlier when cold. You need to keep your batteries close to body temperature before putting them in the plane before flight. If it really gets cold, restricting airflow over the battery might make sense.

If you are moving the model between warm and cold environments, you might get condensation - and freezing - inside the structures. Check that your controls don't freeze.
I built a Blue Pants as a kid. Wish I still had it. Might even learn to fly it.

Offline Scott Richlen

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #46 on: December 07, 2014, 03:23:06 PM »
either tougher or don't know any better!   S?P

Which do you think the guys on this site would say? ;D

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #47 on: December 07, 2014, 03:49:24 PM »
Old age and wisdom? Attached a picture of the gang flying CL on NYE in Pullman, WA, about 1959. It was 0*F when we got home at dusk. I am 2nd from right, wearing glasses, leather coat, no hat, no gloves.  Nobody came by car. This was at the "Women's Playfield", at the corner of NE Colorado St. and NE D St. I'm pretty sure it's got locked gates these days.  D>K Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Scott Richlen

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #48 on: December 07, 2014, 04:03:08 PM »
Hey Steve: what's that plane?  And where are it's skies?


Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #49 on: December 07, 2014, 04:34:49 PM »
Berkley's old "Grumman Guardian" stunter, McCoy Super Stunt .36, no cowling. No skis required, we trampled down a few inches of sneaux and called it good. I think I was flying my Jr. Flite Streak/Fox .15 steel fin that day. It was colder than a well digger's behind! Went home and put hands and feet in warm water to defrost...hurt like blazes!  D>K Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #50 on: December 07, 2014, 04:36:55 PM »
Attached a picture of the gang flying CL on NYE in Pullman, WA, about 1959.

Names, Steve.  Who are these juvenile delinquents, and where are they now?
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #51 on: December 07, 2014, 05:12:18 PM »
The guy on the right is Newton Orr. He was a musical genius, applied to Julliard's and wasn't accepted. He could play over 20 instruments with a good degree of competency. He is a drop-out now; last we heard, he was living kinda off the grid SW from Eugene. A good buddy with my brother Hugh, who was taking the picture.

To the left of Newt was me. Airforce brat, we came from Maxwell AFB, Montgomery, AL. Turned out to be a fair machinist and currently retired, in Rentoon, WA. Flies with the NW Skyraiders, competitive in Advanced, tailender in Expert.

Third from right was Jimmy Brink. Last I saw him was in a barbershop in downtown Pullman, when I was a WAZZU Freshman. He was an Army brat, and came to Pullman from Panama!

Fourth from right...I have no idea...he was a friend of Jimmy, I think. I looked in the HS yearbook and didn't find him.

The short guy 2nd from left is David Ownbey, who was a Boeing Engr. for awhile, got into the computer game and I guess had his heart broken by his wife. She's in Yakima or Tri-Cities and he's in Burien, but still married last I heard from his brother. He and his brother Richard were into eBay sales as a way of making a living. I usta have his email and phone nummer. He said he had collected a couple of antique tether cars, but wasn't interested in flying again. 

The tall guy on the left is John Anderson, who turned out to be a lawyer in the Mt. Vernon/Bellingham WA area. I saw him last on the steps of the Seattle Exhibition Hall, where the Concours de Elegance was running. He had a '40 Ford coupe in the show. 

John's brother Jim is crouching, trying to start the McCoy .36. My brother Googled him, and found he is/was a Physics professor of some note, in Colorado. A big believer in the human influenced Global Warming myth, apparently.  ::) Steve

 
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline DanielGelinas

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Re: Is there an issue to fly when it's below freezing?
« Reply #52 on: December 15, 2014, 05:08:31 PM »
We used to fly in -5, -8 celsius on warm sunny days. We would have the old magician on skis and heat up the engine with a propane blow torch (the small plumber type). Sometimes the propane would get so cold it would have trouble burning...

These are certainly good memories for me, from the early 70s.

-Dan


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