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Author Topic: Flying Wings  (Read 10864 times)

Mike Griffin

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Flying Wings
« on: October 26, 2014, 08:53:14 PM »
I am not sure how good my memory is anymore, but when I was a kid I seem to remember seeing guys flying a lot of flying wings that were maybe a .35 size.  Anyone remember who designed them or maybe have plans or pictures?

Thanks
Mike

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2014, 08:55:25 PM »
I assume you mean for stunt, not combat.  I recently got a PAMPA classic plans book and went through it -- there's a lot of plans for flying wings in there.

If for combat -- there's a lot of those, too.
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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2014, 08:57:38 PM »
Thanks Tim.  No not for combat but for stunt or sport.

Mike

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2014, 08:59:58 PM »
I assume you mean for stunt, not combat.  I recently got a PAMPA classic plans book and went through it -- there's a lot of plans for flying wings in there.

If for combat -- there's a lot of those, too.

Tim are you talking about the book that Tom Morris did?  I have that one if that is the one you are talking about.

Mike

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2014, 09:34:05 PM »
Tim are you talking about the book that Tom Morris did?  I have that one if that is the one you are talking about.

Yes.  It doesn't say anything about which planes were actually getting built and flown, though.
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Offline Juan Carlos Pesce

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2014, 10:28:20 PM »
¿"Fierce Arrow"?

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2014, 10:43:50 PM »
Flying wings look neat.  But ----  I do not thing that very many have ever won the Nats, or been in the top 5, or been in the top 10 or been in the top 20.  There might be a reason for that, but I have not sorted through that yet.

Keith

Mike Griffin

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2014, 11:27:53 PM »
Hi Keith

My damn back got so bad and so did my knees that I dont compete anymore.. I just fly for the fun of it.  I thought It would be fun to build one of those things and fool around with it if I can find some plans for one. 

Mike

Mike Griffin

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2014, 11:30:01 PM »
¿"Fierce Arrow"?

Hi Juan

No the Fierce Arrow is a big model.. these were just like you took a wing out of the fuselage of a model. mounted an engine in the front and flew it....  I dont even remember if they had a vertical fin...I dont think they did.. just elevator...

Mike

Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2014, 12:00:58 AM »
Hi Juan

No the Fierce Arrow is a big model.. these were just like you took a wing out of the fuselage of a model. mounted an engine in the front and flew it....  I dont even remember if they had a vertical fin...I dont think they did.. just elevator...

Mike


The only things I remember that fit that description were actually designed for combat.  A lot of them were used for sport flying.
One big one that comes to mind was the Reactor.  Swept back wing with an upright mounted engine and a very large swept back fin.  Bill Netzeband did the Half Fast series also with a swept back leading edge and there was the Wow kitted by consolodated.  Also the Omega and the T-Square, by Midwest and the Lightening by Larry Scarinzi.  I actually built all of those at one time or another several of some of them!
I actually have plans for the Half FastIII, the Omega, The Lightning, and the T-Square.

Also there was the Debolt Sport Wing with swept forward wing and box fuselage with upright mounted engine.

There were also two different sizes of the Fierce Arrow...The smaller one was only 400 Sq in. for a .15 engine.  The larger one was originally designed for a Fox 35 and was about 600 sq in (I think).

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Offline Tom Luciano

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2014, 03:54:34 AM »
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Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2014, 04:22:05 AM »
In a smaller size, there is my Sky Streak forward swept design. Plans and short kit available from Eric Rule on special request (not a regular kit in his line). See my Avatar for a quick glance. Published in Flying Models.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

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Offline Jim Thomerson

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2014, 06:52:06 AM »
I've flown two different Debolt Sportwings at VSCs.  ST G20-15 diesels.  They will fly a recognizable OTS pattern and are fun to fly.   

Offline John Craig

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2014, 07:17:02 AM »
This was popular among some flyers & it's 1/2A little brother.


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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2014, 07:25:25 AM »
Mike of course I don't know what you remember from back when but there were tons of combat ship kits in the 60's and 70's that got built with milder stunt engines for sport and even stunt training.  You could put .19, .23, .29, or even a Fox .35 or McCoy on any of them.  These might include the trusty Voodoo,  Sneaker, Demon, Vampire. (All Wooten designs),  Big Iron, Super Swoop,  Howard's Nemesis and I have a Guillotine with metal tank and McCoy .35. There are a lot more but be careful-  these can still travel at a good clip with even the smaller engines.  There was one combat flier a decade or two back (might have been Phil G.) who entered stunt at the Nats with a combat ship with landing gear installed just for grins.

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Offline don boka

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2014, 07:42:04 AM »
Hey Mike.
Don Still had a wing back in the fifties! Beaumont isn't that far from New Orleans. Think it was called Stills Stunt Wing and in Air Trails. It has been a while!!! DeBolt Sportwing is cute, I still have my second one, overpowered and nose heavy with a Fox 29, good 19 would probably be great. Don't bother with the landing gear, first one did not have gear, second one does and looks stupid! Is yet to end up right side up!!

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2014, 07:50:10 AM »
I really thank all you guys for your input.  I guess I was about 12 or 13 years old and I would tag along with my dad who flew a Smoothie.  In Mayfield, Kentucky where I grew up, we had a small airport and we would fly on the Tarmac back then.  This was probably 1959 when we were doing this and I remember thus one man who had a flying wing and I just thought it was the neatest thing I had ever seen.  It could ave been any of the ones you guys mentioned .  That was a long time ago and memories fade.  I do remember it was painted orange though.

Mike

Mike Griffin

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2014, 07:56:18 AM »
Hey Mike.
Don Still had a wing back in the fifties! Beaumont isn't that far from New Orleans. Think it was called Stills Stunt Wing and in Air Trails. It has been a while!!! DeBolt Sportwing is cute, I still have my second one, overpowered and nose heavy with a Fox 29, good 19 would probably be great. Don't bother with the landing gear, first one did not have gear, second one does and looks stupid! Is yet to end up right side up!!

Don I agree about the gear.  The ones I remeber did not have a gear .   

Mike

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2014, 08:57:13 AM »
You guys left out the Orbit Ace which was a big plane designed for combat.   My brother built his and used a McCoy .19 Red Head that flew great.   I think it was a Berkeley kit as it seems Charlies Hobby Shop carried a lot of the Berkeley kits at the time.
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Offline Balsa Butcher

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2014, 09:18:53 AM »
Red Reinhart's "Stunt Wing" is currently being kitted by BMJR models.  A nice shot of it "in bones" on their web site as well as two finished versions (one electric). I remember Alan Brickhaus commenting favorably on it in Flying Models Magazine when the kit was released.  8)
« Last Edit: October 27, 2014, 09:35:34 AM by Balsa Butcher »
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Offline Will Hinton

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2014, 09:58:48 AM »
Steve Wooley actually won the KOI in the mid-fifties with a Fierce Arrow.  It's a full bidied fuse', and is much more wing than "just a stunter wing removed."  Is pretty much a delta shape, and is quite pretty when done right.  Been planning on doing one myself, but gave my plans to Trax and haven't remembered to ask for them back!
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Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2014, 10:44:07 AM »
Steve Wooley actually won the KOI in the mid-fifties with a Fierce Arrow.  It's a full bidied fuse', and is much more wing than "just a stunter wing removed."  Is pretty much a delta shape, and is quite pretty when done right.  Been planning on doing one myself, but gave my plans to Trax and haven't remembered to ask for them back!

Mike,
You should know about the Fierce Arrow...Our buddy Eric Rule at RSM kits it.  It's actually a great flying airplane...just looks a little strange flying the pattern.
I saw the original fly at a contest in Missouri when I was about 16 years old.  Bill Netzeband lived in MO as did I, at that time.
There have actually been several of them at VSC...it makes a great sport flier!  Easy to transport in spite of it's size.

Randy C.
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Online Dan McEntee

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2014, 10:55:36 AM »
   I hope to build the Fierce Arrow 400, the smaller 400 sq.in. version and have the magazine plan and John Miller's CAD plans for it. I think Todd Lee did one and id pretty good with it while he was in school down in Florida several years back. I just like the look of it and flying wings in general, R/C, free flight and control line. There was a Waterman Aerobile in American Aircraft Modeler back in the late 60's that was a C/L scale model or R/C.
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Offline Allan Perret

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2014, 11:23:21 AM »
Mike: I got a copy of the DeBolt Sportwing plan from Jules at Mercury Hobbies before he closed down.  Its a neat looking  swept forward flying wing design , should make a good sport model or stunt trainer  I think it was for a .25 engine size, or possibly a lite .35~.40.  I got as far as redrawing all the ribs to accommodate a more updated construction method than what was shown on the plans. Will have to see if I can dig it up.  Will make you a copy if interested.  

I also have the RSM Fierce Arrow kit, which has the plan.  But that is a BIG design, somewhere around 900 sq.in.  John Violett built one and is using an OS-46SF in it, saw him fly it in Baton Rouge couple of years ago.  Pattern capable.   Did not know about the smaller 400 sq in size that Dan mentioned, but that should make a nice sport size for .20~.25 engines.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2014, 11:46:17 AM by Allan Perret »
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Offline riley wooten

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2014, 11:33:53 AM »
Mike,
Don Stills (NOBODY) would be a good choice.....Lot of area, good foil for 19 to 35... Simple to build, but I would personally change it to side mount
with enclosed tank..........  If interested in my "SWIFT" (stunt wing is fun too) send address and I will send you plans.  More building, but not a lot, and
larger................
RW

Offline Bob Hunt

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2014, 11:51:24 AM »
Attached here is a photo of the legendary "Wild Bill" Netzeband with his very cool Fierce Arrow 400. I'm certain that someone out there has plans available for this one.

Mike Pratt also has a very neat flying wing design, and he has plans available for that one.

Later - Bob Hunt

Offline John Kelly

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2014, 12:07:53 PM »
   ...
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Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2014, 12:11:30 PM »
I have plans for the "400" that I got when it was published. I have not built one though.

Larry Borden and I have built Riley's Swift. Larry's has a side mounted engine. I have let Riley down and have not completed it yet, but it is very close. Getting rehabbed after my surgery and priorities have held it up. I added a center rudder because I thought it looks good. Mine also has an inverted engine.
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Offline bob whitney

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2014, 01:23:15 PM »
Steve Wooley actually won the KOI in the mid-fifties with a Fierce Arrow.  It's a full bidied fuse', and is much more wing than "just a stunter wing removed."  Is pretty much a delta shape, and is quite pretty when done right.  Been planning on doing one myself, but gave my plans to Trax and haven't remembered to ask for them back!

 Will, i think u will find that Wild Bill won the KOI with his Fierce Arrow. Steve was flying one of his I Beam ships,, i believe he took 2nd to Bill.  i have all the results and can go back and look it up
rad racer

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #29 on: October 27, 2014, 03:33:45 PM »
I remember two that were published in MAN in the '50's that I liked, "COM-BAT", which was a sleek sidewinder engine wing with a more or less flat airfoil...pretty easy to build. One of the local guys built one, over in Pullman, WA, with an early Fox Combat.

The other one I remember from MAN was a Stunt model called the "Short Snorter", I think. About all I can recall is that the designer was George something, and it had a landing gear. That one is probably in the Tom Morris Classics book. I do recall another, probably MAN, that had a side mounted & cowled engine, white, no fuselage, and I don't think any LG. I seem to recall that one was done in a variety of sizes, from 1/2A to .35 or so.

There was also a later version of the Fierce Arrow published in MA by Bob Baron that was for a snarly port .46 and had over 1,000 square inches. It looked cool with its tandem LG and inverted engine. The balsa cost for the ribs would be considerable...   H^^ Steve
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Offline John Kelly

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #30 on: October 27, 2014, 03:43:12 PM »
   ...
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Offline bob whitney

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #31 on: October 27, 2014, 04:17:29 PM »
Red Reinhart's "Stunt Wing" is currently being kitted by BMJR models.  A nice shot of it "in bones" on their web site as well as two finished versions (one electric). I remember Alan Brickhaus commenting favorably on it in Flying Models Magazine when the kit was released.  8)

  i biult the proto type stunt wing for BMJR  it will do the complete pampa pattern with an OS 25 in it just beef up the main spare to keep it from flexing make a stronger landing gear and it is a fun ship
rad racer

Offline Jim Thomerson

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #32 on: October 27, 2014, 04:50:31 PM »
Walter Umland has plans and some laser cut parts for my Agile Arrow stunt wing. It is a 700 square inch airplane and flew, for me, as well as any airplane I have ever flown. 

Offline Jim Thomerson

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #33 on: October 27, 2014, 05:06:32 PM »
Here is a photo of a smaller version of the Agile Arrow, called the Darter.  Powered by a Cox 15 special, I intended to fly it in profile.  It flew very well, a little fast on 60 ft 012 lines.  Blew the conrod on the engine and put the airplane up.

Offline John Stiles

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #34 on: October 27, 2014, 05:41:24 PM »
Had a buddy build one that looked like this, back in the 80s:
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Offline don boka

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #35 on: October 27, 2014, 06:06:17 PM »
Riley. You hit it on the head with Don Stills wing name, "Nobody" was the name. Glad you remembered because I sure didn't. I recall one of our flying guys had one and got the lines tangled. He threw his handle in the air to untangle them (!) and away it went. If I recall, the lines got tangled on power lines further down the field. His name was Don also but I won't mention his last name. No, not me!

Offline Dennis Saydak

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #36 on: October 27, 2014, 06:07:37 PM »
I've posted these pictures before. Here's Wooley's FA with pants and my version from the 60s. I have a more recent FA , which I still fly occasionally. I'm also working on the FA 875 design, which is also available from RSM by special order. They are great flyers if built light & straight.
Mike, there is also a 1/2A version FA that was published in FM magazine. It would be great to kit this version. It wouldn't take much wood or break the bank.
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Offline Will Hinton

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #37 on: October 27, 2014, 08:15:25 PM »
Will, i think u will find that Wild Bill won the KOI with his Fierce Arrow. Steve was flying one of his I Beam ships,, i believe he took 2nd to Bill.  i have all the results and can go back and look it up
Hi Bob, I would be interested in knowing the finish, but remember our local paper, the Marietta Times with a picture of Steve and his buddy, Gary Wegmiller on the front page as winning at the KOI.  Gary was a scale flyer.
Now, thing is, Steve would have been either a senior or maybe even still a junior at the time, and that could have been the factor of a first place for him in his age class.
His Argus came out the following year, and I had the misfortune of seeing him break the tail off on a too-low pull out inverted in the reverse wingover.  That was at the Parkersburg, W. VA airport at a contest.  Steve always flew really low!
If you can find the results of the mid-fifties KOI it would be great to see!!  I would start looking around 56 for beginners, and go each way from there.  If you don't want to post them here, I would love to have a pm with them!!!!! But...I'm sure the rest of the guys are interested.  Thanks in advance!
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Offline builditright

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #38 on: October 27, 2014, 11:53:10 PM »
Here is a photo of a smaller version of the Agile Arrow, called the Darter.  Powered by a Cox 15 special, I intended to fly it in profile.  It flew very well, a little fast on 60 ft 012 lines.  Blew the conrod on the engine and put the airplane up.

Hi Jim
So, why haven't we made this available?
Thank you and God Bless
Walter
aka/ builditright

Offline Chris Wilson

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #39 on: October 28, 2014, 12:46:17 AM »
I am not sure how good my memory is anymore, but when I was a kid I seem to remember seeing guys flying a lot of flying wings that were maybe a .35 size.  Anyone remember who designed them or maybe have plans or pictures?

Thanks
Mike
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http://www.outerzone.co.uk/images/thumbs/plans/4403.jpg
Fierce Arrow
http://www.outerzone.co.uk/images/thumbs/plans/5845.jpg

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Offline Douglas Ames

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #40 on: October 28, 2014, 07:10:30 AM »
The Fierce Arrows look great with wheel pants!
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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #41 on: October 28, 2014, 08:39:21 AM »
I am considering doing a prototype on the British designed TOREADOR flying wing.  Maybe there would be enough interest for a future kit.  What do you guys think.

Mike

Offline Jim Thomerson

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #42 on: October 28, 2014, 09:14:03 AM »
Toreador kits were being reproduced by a company in England.  I got them to make me a short kit, which could be sent airmail first class, much cheaper postage.  I donated it to one of the Dallas MAC raffles.
I'll check and see if they are still in business.   I have an Aeromodeller Annual with a photo of the prototype Toreador which has normal wing tips.  

http://www.vintagemodelcompany.com/
They list a number of replikits for British control line models.
 
There was a Riley Wooten design in Flying Models.  A Quicker wing with an attached flipper and rudder.  I think it was called the Nothing.  
« Last Edit: October 28, 2014, 10:58:34 AM by Jim Thomerson »

Offline WLGeorge

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #43 on: October 28, 2014, 09:23:03 AM »
I live very close to Don Still and I will go ask him about this flying wing.  See if there are still plans in his shop laying around somewhere.  You never know about Don.   He is full of surprises. 

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #44 on: October 28, 2014, 09:29:10 AM »
Thank you Jim and WL

Mike

Offline WLGeorge

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #45 on: October 28, 2014, 09:42:21 AM »
I called Don and he said the "No Body" was  powered by a green head K&B .35.  The wing was derived from his"Victory" and was scaled down somewhat.  He took it to the Detroit International meet in 52 or 53 and placed 3rd in combat. Not too sure about the year.  I think he took first in stunt at that same meet.  It was a combat plane not a stunt.  Don also mentioned an Atwood 60 version but did not recall the specifics but said it was a handful.    I like the history of this stuff.

Offline Gerald Schamp

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #46 on: October 28, 2014, 11:29:36 AM »
Guillows did a big flying wing called the Reactor, I had a couple when I was a kid, K&B .35. It had a very thick wing wing and made a humming noise in the wing. I think Walter Umland made this kit available sometime back. Has a single nose gear with tip skids.

Riley Wooten's Whatzit was a good one as well. Was fast, with a combat engine, but with a Fox .35 it should tame down quite well. Cool looking too.

Offline bob whitney

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #47 on: October 28, 2014, 11:37:44 AM »
Hi Bob, I would be interested in knowing the finish, but remember our local paper, the Marietta Times with a picture of Steve and his buddy, Gary Wegmiller on the front page as winning at the KOI.  Gary was a scale flyer.
Now, thing is, Steve would have been either a senior or maybe even still a junior at the time, and that could have been the factor of a first place for him in his age class.
His Argus came out the following year, and I had the misfortune of seeing him break the tail off on a too-low pull out inverted in the reverse wingover.  That was at the Parkersburg, W. VA airport at a contest.  Steve always flew really low!
If you can find the results of the mid-fifties KOI it would be great to see!!  I would start looking around 56 for beginners, and go each way from there.  If you don't want to post them here, I would love to have a pm with them!!!!! But...I'm sure the rest of the guys are interested.  Thanks in advance!  

this is what i have ,hope u can read it  if it dosnt come through i can email
rad racer

Offline John Craig

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #48 on: October 28, 2014, 01:09:27 PM »
So what does Nobody look like?  Where can I go for a picture or plans ?
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 12:24:49 PM by John Craig »

Offline WLGeorge

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Re: Flying Wings
« Reply #49 on: October 28, 2014, 01:21:52 PM »
I may have a copy of the plans for No Body very soon.  It's in the works even as we speak.  Maybe by Friday. 


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