Double flap horn setup question. Update!

[Randy Cuberly]

Clint,
Are U on some kind of crusade or what.?  Give it a rest.  If U don't agree just.....shutup

As for you Andrew...don't you realize comments like yours just further facilitate this Crapola!!!

I think you're probably worse than Charlie Poo!

Randy C.

[Trostle]

p.s. the fatal flaw IS NOT the fact that he put the ball links on the wrong side of one of the horns. Although that is a flaw, too, that made it much more difficult than it would otherwise have been. That's why the uprights are bent strangely.

Another fatal flaw with this whole arrangement is that there will be an extreme amount of flexure from one flap deflection to the other.  On a serious stunt ship, that will cause trim problems that are virtually impossible to correct.  For a sport ship and a pilot who does not know much about flying a decent pattern, all that flap flexure probably will not make much difference, but then why go to the trouble to put flaps on the thing in the first place.

Keith

[Avaiojet]

No,

I won't be reporting any of this pathetic behavior from the "usual suspects" that gave us Stunt Anger.

Nor will I delete any more Threads.

Biggest mistake I made was "cleaning up" Threads with obvious Posts from my followers that are an embarrassment to what modeling has always stood for. This is just a small example.

Now there are many "new members" in Robert's Forum and they will see for themselves who participates and who represents next to nothing.

I'm no longer sure if any of you ever had a real handle as to what this hobby is all about?

And if you ever did, what happened along the road of life, for you to end up behaving like mean jealous schoolyard children?

I hope reading the likes of these tasteless replies doesn’t discourage others from participating in one form or another.

In actuaity, these guys only do this to me. 

[Dan McEntee]

"Biggest mistake I made was "cleaning up" Threads with obvious Posts from my followers that are an embarrassment to what modeling has always stood for. This is just a small example."

    This quote says quite a bit. The fact that you think you have followers and that makes you some sort of leader? Some sort of innovator? I think you are giving yourself way too much credit.
    If I want to learn how to win the Indy 500, I'm going to go talk to Roger Penske,  AJ Foyt, Chip Gannassi, Al Unser, Sr. and Jr., People that have won it before, not the local gadfly that talks like he knows what he is doing.
    No one here has been mean, just pointing out what is painfully obvious. Want to get some respect? Earn it. Finish a model, take it to the field, and put it through a pattern, and bring it back home in one piece. You are not fooling anyone with the fake attempt at shaming other people. We know who everyone else is in the thread, but you still won't tell us who you are, which is one of the forum rules.
   Again, finish a model, take it to the field, put it through a pattern and bring it back home in one piece.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

[RC Storick]

I would have been easier to use lucky boxes like everyone does and lighter as well.

[Tim Wescott]

I would have been easier to use lucky boxes like everyone does and lighter as well.

And even a plywood-walled lucky box will work well and last a long time.

[Avaiojet]

And even a plywood-walled lucky box will work well and last a long time.

Tim,

Gotta remember I don't know that.

Also. replies came from individuals I don't trust. The same individuals that have bullied me for four years.

Seems they are still doing it.

As for lucky boxes. They are not liked by everyone.

Metal against wood?

http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php/topic,22743.0.html

[Trostle]

Tim,

Gotta remember I don't know that.


As for lucky boxes. They are not liked by everyone.

Metal against wood?

http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php/topic,22743.0.html

There are a lot  of things you do not know and then you do not listen when something is explained to you.  Then you come up with the statement that lucky boxes "are not liked by everyone" and then give a reference to supposedly back up your statement.  One person said that the lucky boxes he tried did not hold up because as he clearly explained, he used the wrong material. 

Simply stated -- lucky boxes work regardless of what you say or try to claim.  They will give considerable service as in hundreds of flights if the proper materials are used.  I hope your new followers/readers do not do what you showed as that is NOT the way to actuate flaps with a hinge line that is swept or has dihedral or a combination of the two.  This is particularly true as other solutions are simpler, lighter and will result in more satisfactory performance.

Keith

[john e. holliday]

Keep it up guys and you are going to get your hands slapped.   As one individual told me one time he doesn't mind helping or giving advice, but when they ignore it,  he stops helping or advising. 

[RC Storick]

While Charles method is not the way everyone would do it (I would use lucky boxes) this is how he has chosen to do it against everyone advise. No big deal! So if someone chooses not to take your advice there is no need to get bent out of shape or fret over it. Let it go and move on.

I know that some of these posts are baiting posts and some are from the lack of experience and the only way to get experience is by doing.

I know this from experience as some of my methods have been in question but they work for me and now with video I can show it instead of type it.

[Avaiojet]

Robert,

These guys bring this stuff on themselve and enjoy it.   

Yes, I can and have taken advice and used it.


Lucky boxes? I'm still not convinced because of the wearing down of the wood against metal.

I did rethink  this setup and there is a better way.

I believe I can do this with one horn and one pushrod without using lucky boxes.

No Posts on that? Like they don't know?

Robert,

Still doesn't change the fact, that when these guys get going and behave like this, others back off and don't participate.

These kind of comments are nipping away at the quality of your Forum.

And they have for years and still get away with it.

Obviously they aren't my friends.

[Avaiojet]

mply stated -- lucky boxes work regardless of what you say or try to claim.  They will give considerable service as in hundreds of flights if the proper materials are used.  I hope your new followers/readers do not do what you showed as that is NOT the way to actuate flaps with a hinge line that is swept or has dihedral or a combination of the two.  This is particularly true as other solutions are simpler, lighter and will result in more satisfactory performance.
[/qiote]

Keith,

I do agree with some of this.

[Dan McEntee]

  Says You! You just can't see the forrest for the trees.

  I'll say it again, finish a model, take it to the field, put up a pattern, bring the model home in one piece.
  
   Nothing hurtful or mean spirited in that unless you put it there. Doing things your own way to make yourself happy is one thing. Do it and prove us all wrong, we can take it. The thing is, we have all made the mistakes and learned from them, you seem to refuse to learn from other's experience. It's all in your mind that it some how brings down the forum. Most of us all know each other, and meet each other at events across the country. That part is all in your mind and an attempt to skirt the issue.

  Finish this airplane, or any of the 6 or 8 you have threads going on all across the whole forum, bring it to the field, put up a pattern, and bring the model home in one piece. A simple challenge that will prove or disprove a lot.

   Put the rest of this model in your "Klingon Cloak Mode" and don't bring it out again until it's finished, then take it to the field, put up a pattern, and bring it home in one piece again.

  Time will tell,
  Dan McEntee

[Chris Wilson]

Chris,
Elevator horn ball link attaches to the right side of the right horn under the flap ball link. I had it in place. Touches nothing in it's movement.

The place that you showed it before was on the LEFT side of the right hand horn (or in between the two flap horns) - hence me thinking of intense competition for space was going on there!

[Avaiojet]

The place that you showed it before was on the LEFT side of the right hand horn (or in between the two flap horns) - hence me thinking of intense competition for space was going on there!

Chris,

Yes, you are correct. But I moved it to the outside because there's more room there. Either way there was no interference with movement.

I know these guys are right, so I'm going to re-think this.

Dick was right also about the two control horns being a bit unnecessary and adding weight. I can agree with that.

I do however, like the idea of going a different route but not using lucky boxes.

Flatening the TE for a bit and having horn wire bent 90 degrees to the TE angle, should be the fix?

No one mentioned this?

I'll have one horn, a third of the horn wire I have now and only one pushrod. No lucky boxes.

I figered this out myself.

So, why didn't anyone else bring this method to my attention?

Chris, thanks for being kind and not losing your patience with me. 

BTW.

Suggestions on horn height?

I mentioned that I'm using 1" and .75" on the flap horn and .75" on the elevartor. No comments on that?

Am I OK with that?

[RC Storick]

Chris,

Yes, you are correct. But I moved it to the outside because there's more room there. Either way there was no interference with movement.

I know these guys are right, so I'm going to re-think this.

Dick was right also about the two control horns being a bit unnecessary and adding weight. I can agree with that.

I do however, like the idea of going a different route but not using lucky boxes.

Flatening the TE for a bit and having horn wire bent 90 degrees to the TE angle, should be the fix?

No one mentioned this?

I'll have one horn, a third of the horn wire I have now and only one pushrod. No lucky boxes.

I figered this out myself.

So, why didn't anyone else bring this method to my attention?

Chris, thanks for being kind and not losing your patience with me.  

BTW.

Suggestions on horn height?

I mentioned that I'm using 1" and .75" on the flap horn and .75" on the elevartor. No comments on that?

Am I OK with that?

Charles if you a worried about lucky box strength you can use rectangle brass tubing 1/8 x 3/8 or 3/32 x 3/8 and in bed it into the flaps. It doesn't take much slop side to side. I use 1.25 and 1 inch horns with 3/4 at the bell crank

[Avaiojet]

Robert,

Thanks for that.

I made this sketch.

I see no reason why this won't solve all problems.

I just have to cut the back of the TE flat a bit from horn wire bend to bend.

Ever see it done this way?

Thanks for the reply.

[RC Storick]

Robert,

Thanks for that.

I made this sketch.

I see no reason why this won't solve all problems.

I just have to cut the back of the TE flat a bit from horn wire bend to bend.

Ever see it done this way?

Thanks for the reply.

You will still need lucky boxes

[Dan McEntee]

   You would still need lucky boxes for that method, no matter how much of the trailing edge you cut off. The difference is in the angle between the two trailing edges. There have been MANY people here trying to get you to see what you need to do. You are literally ASKING us to tell you what to do and you have been told already. I take EXTREME offense that you would think that the people on this forum would tell you something that would not work, or would cause you problems on purpose, even the ones you call your "enemies."  No one is bullying you here,  just frustrated and fed up with your self serving attitude and bull headedness.
    What you have drawn will work, but you will still need lucky boxes. Bending the wire horns at that angle will not let the flaps work without binding at neutral.
  Read the last line slowly! Over and over if necessary. Re read the post that was made about over thinking the situation. Then read it again slowly. All the answers are in this thread. Tons more in the archive and the pluses and minuses of using swept forward trailing edges.
   All you gotta do is READ!
    Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee
    

[Dane Martin]

Charles,
from the pic you just posted, the rods going into the flaps will not move linear. it would be a radial path up and down. it may not be much depending on the total travel and length of rod , and yadda yadda, but would always be enough to bind the surfaces when moved with one joiner

[Trostle]

Robert,

Thanks for that.

I made this sketch.

I see no reason why this won't solve all problems.

I just have to cut the back of the TE flat a bit from horn wire bend to bend.

Ever see it done this way?


Thanks for the reply.

No, because it will not work.  That is why nobody mentioned it before.  

Now, if you go to a lucky box arrangement, it will take a bit of understanding to make the lucky boxes work given the hinge lines and the needed position of the single control horn  relative to the lucky boxes.  It would need to located differently than you show.

You have chosen not to understand the idea behind the lucky boxes and it has been explained to you to materials that will work.  Bare untreated wood surfaces moving against the control horn wire is not a good thing.  There are many satisfactory solutions, many which have been explained to you.

Yes, you can be "commended" for showing us how you do something.  However, in this case what you have shown is not the best solution to a swept flap hinge line.  You should not present your solution for your many followers and any newcomers or less experienced builders as a satisfactory solution to the problem.  But again, if this is a "sport" model, not intended for serious competition, what you have done will be satisfactory if you are not demanding for peak performance in the stunt pattern.  But if that is the case, there is little to be gained by putting flaps on a sport model as you have done for non serious stunt patterns, unless one just wants to have a model of mediocre performance and there is no concern for the extra weight and complexity of adding flaps.  

I think you are going to be unpleasantly surprised about how much flex there will be between the two flaps once you get the thing assembled.  If you can live with that much flex, fine.  It does you no good for the performance of the model.  Just be aware that you were alerted to the problem after you asked about how to deal with a swept flap hinge line.

And lucky boxes are a satisfactory solution if the proper materials are used regardless how little you know or understand about them.

Keith

[Avaiojet]

  Says You! You just can't see the forrest for the trees.

  I'll say it again, finish a model, take it to the field, put up a pattern, bring the model home in one piece.
   
   Nothing hurtful or mean spirited in that unless you put it there. Doing things your own way to make yourself happy is one thing. Do it and prove us all wrong, we can take it. The thing is, we have all made the mistakes and learned from them, you seem to refuse to learn from other's experience. It's all in your mind that it some how brings down the forum. Most of us all know each other, and meet each other at events across the country. That part is all in your mind and an attempt to skirt the issue.

  Finish this airplane, or any of the 6 or 8 you have threads going on all across the whole forum, bring it to the field, put up a pattern, and bring the model home in one piece. A simple challenge that will prove or disprove a lot.

   Put the rest of this model in your "Klingon Cloak Mode" and don't bring it out again until it's finished, then take it to the field, put up a pattern, and bring it home in one piece again.

  Time will tell,
  Dan McEntee

Dan,

Thanks for that advice and I do understand I'm all over the place.

You can blame Sparky.

I see him build these gorgeous full blown pattern ships in only two weekends.

All I would like is just one, only one really nice model and I feel like I don't have that yet.

Having that model could possibly be out of my reach.

[Mike Keville]

Haven't had this many laughs since the "Burying My Goldfish" video from Australia.

[Dan McEntee]

Dan,

Thanks for that advice and I do understand I'm all over the place.

You can blame Sparky.

I see him build these gorgeous full blown pattern ships in only two weekends.

All I would like is just one, only one really nice model and I feel like I don't have that yet.

Having that model could possibly be out of my reach.

   Well how would you know what you have unless you finish something!   It may be one of the dozen projects you have going, but you will NEVER know, nor EVER learn anything until you put one in the air. Building hanger queens don't count.  What Sparky and everyone else shows you comes from experience, and experience comes from putting things into practical use, starting out for and reaching a goal. All of this information isn't just being pulled out of thin air. Just pick a model you have started, and FINISH IT! See if it flies. See how it performs. Anything else is just meaningless. What good does it do to get something half started or three quarters finished, and it just sits there? If you had taken some of the engergy put into most of the unfinished projects, and put it into finishing one or two, the reward and lessons learned are something to build the next models on. Just poking along and doing things the way you are doing them, you'll achieve nothing.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

[Avaiojet]

   Well how would you know what you have unless you finish something!   It may be one of the dozen projects you have going, but you will NEVER know, nor EVER learn anything until you put one in the air. Building hanger queens don't count.  What Sparky and everyone else shows you comes from experience, and experience comes from putting things into practical use, starting out for and reaching a goal. All of this information isn't just being pulled out of thin air. Just pick a model you have started, and FINISH IT! See if it flies. See how it performs. Anything else is just meaningless. What good does it do to get something half started or three quarters finished, and it just sits there? If you had taken some of the engergy put into most of the unfinished projects, and put it into finishing one or two, the reward and lessons learned are something to build the next models on. Just poking along and doing things the way you are doing them, you'll achieve nothing.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

Dan,

Just so you'll know.

I plan on removing the second pushrod, and both flap horns.

I will trim the TE straight to allow for only one horn. The horn will have 90 degree bends as per the angle of the swept TE. I.e., my diagram.

Yes, I will make two "lucky boxes" for the flaps. Thanks for bestowing that information and knowledge upon me. It's appreciated.

Flaps are only .25" thick. So I will review Sparky's reply about the brass boxes and use 1/16 ply above and below.

I thought about dialing down on the 1/8" horn rod to 3/32" because of the thin flaps, but Randy suggested against using 3/32" rod.

As for flying something I built and finished. Saturday I will be borrwing a paint stand so I can get a clear coat on both models, the Flit Streak and that P-40.

Could probably get both in the air the folowing weekend.

As for the pattern, I have the Pathfinder. I've done three consective loops, inverted flight, wing overs and figure eights. Trying to maintain my 5' at most times.

It's a start.

[Chris Wilson]

You can blame Sparky.

Really?

[Avaiojet]

You can blame Sparky.

Really?

Chris,

That's clearly taken out of context.

Are you a Liberal? 

[Clint Ormosen]

Chris,

That's clearly taken out of context.

Are you a Liberal? 

^^^^^^troll post^^^^^^^

[Mark Scarborough]

Robert,

Thanks for that.

I made this sketch.

I see no reason why this won't solve all problems.

I just have to cut the back of the TE flat a bit from horn wire bend to bend.

Ever see it done this way?

Thanks for the reply.

yes ,, seen it this way when you use LUCKY BOXES which will live far longer than the airplane most likely,, especially if you listen,, and build them like you have been shown

[Randy Cuberly]

Dan,

Just so you'll know.

I plan on removing the second pushrod, and both flap horns.

I will trim the TE straight to allow for only one horn. The horn will have 90 degree bends as per the angle of the swept TE. I.e., my diagram.

Yes, I will make two "lucky boxes" for the flaps. Thanks for bestowing that information and knowledge upon me. It's appreciated.

Flaps are only .25" thick. So I will review Sparky's reply about the brass boxes and use 1/16 ply above and below.

I thought about dialing down on the 1/8" horn rod to 3/32" because of the thin flaps, but Randy suggested against using 3/32" rod.

As for flying something I built and finished. Saturday I will be borrwing a paint stand so I can get a clear coat on both models, the Flit Streak and that P-40.

Could probably get both in the air the folowing weekend.

As for the pattern, I have the Pathfinder. I've done three consective loops, inverted flight, wing overs and figure eights. Trying to maintain my 5' at most times.

It's a start.

Charles,
One more try...
If you go back and re-read my post about the G10 lucky boxes you will see that they will fit very nicely into a 1/4 inch flap.  I would mention that you can obtain these lucky boxes pre-cut parts including the G10 pieces from Eric Rule at RSM.  He puts them in his kits that use flaps!  Nice parts and they work well!

G10 is very tough stuff and was developed for PC Boards subject to vibration and abrasion.  I seriously doubt that you could wear out one of these lucky boxes if you flew the airplane 10 times a day for the rest of your life.

You need to understand something about people also.  When you ask for advice from real experts who devote time and effort to answer your question with methods that have been proven over time and function, and then just totally disregard their advice and even question it's validity in some cases it's frustrating for those people and difficult for them to take you seriously.

Also, as has been mentioned before, your chosen approaches sometimes could be very misleading to newcomers who don't know you or those who give you advice in good faith...To them everyone comes off like know nothing boobs!

These comments are meant in good faith as advice and not criticism.

Randy Cuberly

[Trostle]

Dan,

Just so you'll know.

I plan on removing the second pushrod, and both flap horns.

I will trim the TE straight to allow for only one horn. The horn will have 90 degree bends as per the angle of the swept TE. I.e., my diagram.

Yes, I will make two "lucky boxes" for the flaps. Thanks for bestowing that information and knowledge upon me. It's appreciated.

Hey Charles,

Just bending that single horn so that the horn ends go into your flaps at a right (90 degree) angle and using lucky boxes does not necessarily solve your problem  The lucky boxes will work if the horn intersects with the flap hinge line where those horn ends go into your flaps.  Think about it and draw a sketch that shows what happens if that horn enters your flap well before the 90 degree bend in the wire.  The lucky boxes work, but they have to be done right.  If that bend is well inside the end of the flap, the flap will resist motion after just a few degrees of rotation on its hinges.  Again, think about it and do it right.

The 90 degree bend really does not solve anything.  That is why nobody mentioned it to you before.  Yes, I know what I am talking about.  No, I am not trying to give you a hard time.  Yes, I am trying to help you here.

Keith

[Larry Fernandez]

This thread is one of the reasons I quit posting on this site.
Some of the greatest builder/fliers are here to help and advise, but sometimes it seems like a waste of time.

I'm a pretty fair builder and I'll put my finishes up against anyone. But when people ask for my advice and they don't want to listen to me, I feel like they are wasting my time, as well as their own.

Don't forget, Charles stated a couple of years ago that he could build a front row airplane.
I'm sorry, but that was an insult to the likes of Uncle Jimby, Phil Granderson, Jim Tichey, Ray Firkins, Kennny Stevens, Jerry Silver, Ted Fancher and those who have made it to the front row and know exactly what it takes to get there.

Charles, just build a plane. Finish it and fly it. Keep it simple with no bells and whistles, and stop trying to reinvent the wheel.

I hope this wont get me kicked off this forum again.

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

[Avaiojet]

OK,

A new morning and a better day. No, I didn't get much sleep last night with all of this on my mind.

First, I want to thank everyone for the added assistance with new replies and thank you for your understanding. As difficult as it must be.

Yes, it's become obvious to me that I've wasted good time reinventing foolish methods, not just this linkage system, but in many other areas as well.

This linkage system and my mindset towards it, I honestly have no idea how I draw myself off the path.

I do understand it's absolutely not the way to do this task.

A new morning, a new day and a correct attitude, I will contact Eric for my lucky boxes and order a new horn rod from Tom Morris.

With the lucky boxes I can eliminate the two horns for a single horn, eliminate both pushrods for a single shorter pushrod and trim a tad of the TE for the flat area needed to mount the new horn.

I'll bet I'll loose a full once or better discarding all that unneeded material.

Hard to believe I couldn't see this from the beginning and it has been a learning experience.

Thank you for your help. It's appreciated.

[Chris Wilson]

Ok, I will go first - well done and nicely said Charles and I am sure that we all look forward to your labors bearing fruit.

[RC Storick]

This thread is one of the reasons I quit posting on this site.
Some of the greatest builder/fliers are here to help and advise, but sometimes it seems like a waste of time.

I'm a pretty fair builder and I'll put my finishes up against anyone. But when people ask for my advice and they don't want to listen to me, I feel like they are wasting my time, as well as their own.

Don't forget, Charles stated a couple of years ago that he could build a front row airplane.
I'm sorry, but that was an insult to the likes of Uncle Jimby, Phil Granderson, Jim Tichey, Ray Firkins, Kennny Stevens, Jerry Silver, Ted Fancher and those who have made it to the front row and know exactly what it takes to get there.

Charles, just build a plane. Finish it and fly it. Keep it simple with no bells and whistles, and stop trying to reinvent the wheel.

I hope this wont get me kicked off this forum again.

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

No you wont get kicked off. LOL Enjoy You did however forget me in your front row list. LOL

[Tim Wescott]

This thread is one of the reasons I quit posting on this site.
Some of the greatest builder/fliers are here to help and advise, but sometimes it seems like a waste of time.

I'm a pretty fair builder and I'll put my finishes up against anyone. But when people ask for my advice and they don't want to listen to me, I feel like they are wasting my time, as well as their own.

I've found over the years, on this forum and others, that for every one guy asking questions there's at least half a dozen lurkers that are watching the thread and noting the answers.  So even if the guy you're talking to isn't doing what you suggest, someone out there is benefiting from both the answer and the question.

[Will Davis]

Great Windy video on Paul Taylor's YouTube channel,  shows control linkage and swept forward hinge lines

[Avaiojet]

Well Will,

What can I say, and I'm saying this with a sense of humor.

Would have been nice if this was the first reply.

Better late than never.

Thanks for it, and this explains everything.

Looks like my drawing.

I'll have to get brass boxes. Robert's suggestion.

Thanks Will.

Thanks Windy.

[RC Storick]

Please Charles next time when I tell you something remember I really know what I am talking about. I don't have the math education but I have practical experience. All the spread sheets in the world will not equal that.

[Avaiojet]

Please Charles next time when I tell you something remember I really know what I am talking about. I don't have the math education but I have practical experience. All the spread sheets in the world will not equal that.

Robert,

Absolutely.

Interesting, because you still remain humble. How do you do that?

I've watched your videos repeatedly and I must say, you're offering valuable information and techniques.

One quick example is your tearing that patch by hand. I would have cut a square with a #11 blade.

Go figure.

Now I'm off to a good start in fixing my blunder with this wing.

I'll google tomorrow and find some brass boxes.

Charles

[Avaiojet]

  You would still need lucky boxes for that method, no matter how much of the trailing edge you cut off. The difference is in the angle between the two trailing edges. There have been MANY people here trying to get you to see what you need to do. You are literally ASKING us to tell you what to do and you have been told already. I take EXTREME offense that you would think that the people on this forum would tell you something that would not work, or would cause you problems on purpose, even the ones you call your "enemies."  No one is bullying you here,  just frustrated and fed up with your self serving attitude and bull headedness.
    What you have drawn will work, but you will still need lucky boxes. Bending the wire horns at that angle will not let the flaps work without binding at neutral.
  Read the last line slowly! Over and over if necessary. Re read the post that was made about over thinking the situation. Then read it again slowly. All the answers are in this thread. Tons more in the archive and the pluses and minuses of using swept forward trailing edges.
   All you gotta do is READ!
    Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee
    

Dan,

Don't think I don't appreciate your offerings, because you would be wrong.

I know I'm thick headed, sorry about that, and the "Gibbs head slap" you give me from time to time, is much appreciated.

Thanks for your help and patience.

[Avaiojet]

Randy,

Thanks for that "One more try."

It's really appreciated

[Avaiojet]

Mark,

Can't leave you out, Keith either,

Thanks for your replies and interest.

[Avaiojet]

An update on this, just so you'll know.

I reread a good part of the replies again. I'm surprised at what I had missed. Thanks Dan.

"Whereas once I was blind, now I can see."

Everything has been removed. Both hornes and both pushrods. Kaput, in the trash bag. I don't want to be reminded of my stupidity and my lack of reasoning.

I ordered a new horn/horn wire and found a supplier of brass tubes for the lucky boxes, as per Windy's video.

I'm also going to pump my flaps up to 3/8" in thicknes. I can do this and just sand a tad away from the LE.

It's a great morning!

[Bill Burton]

Being relatively new to the forum, after reading this thread all I can say is WOW. 

BB

[Randy Cuberly]

Being relatively new to the forum, after reading this thread all I can say is WOW. 

BB

Well, it didn't run you off, so you must be a pretty tough guy!

 

Randy Cuberly

[Bill Burton]

I got pretty tough skin Randy....I have been around for a while.. not on here but in life....

Bill

[Avaiojet]

Well, I got that, highly recommended, single pushrod and single flap horn in place.

"Lucky boxes" tonight. "Lucky Boxes?" Sounds like the name of a Night Club. 

Anyway, I'd like to thank everyone again for their constructive criticism that lead up to this change.

I never weighed the other pushrod and the second horn, but my guess is I tossed away some unwanted weight.

Probably should have taken Clint's advice also on not using these Fox bellcranks, could have easily made the change, but time and flights will let me know.

We'll see.

Thanks again. I appreciate it.

[Avaiojet]

Got my flaps made and my lucky boxes installed. Pays to take advice.

Wasn't all that difficult because the flaps were 3/8" at the wire. Good thing I made the boxed a tad longer because I closed up my flap gap by .125". Probably wouldn't matter if the horn rod stuck out of the lucky box a tad anyway?

I've done a great deal of sanding to get them thinner and tapered.

Nothing is glued in place and I do have to remove the flaps to cover the wing, but they do work free.

No photos, I cannot spend the time.

I'm going to concentrate on finishing the model and putting up a pattern.