My first combat wing questions, 1/2A Brodak Gladiator

[RknRusty]

I want to fly this thing for the first time at Huntersville. I've followed most of the advice putting it together that I can remember from Mike Londke who gave it to me. I bought some 3/8" square poplar dowels to make the engine bearers, so I hope that's stout enough. They seem very hard. I can't remember where he told me to balance it. Should the CG be right on the LE behind the engine? I have two engines, an MP Jet .061 BB factory Race Special and a Big Mig .061. I want to use the MP Jet if I have time to make a fine thread NV for it. If not, I already have the Big Mig set up with a 128tpi needle pressed into the venturi. Is 60' of .015" stranded steel line right?

I've never flown a combat wing before, but can fly a fast 1/2A plane at 3-4 second laps all day in any direction.
Thanks,
Rusty

[Mike Anderson]

More like 35' or 42' lines.

[mike londke]

42' from bellcrank to handle. .015 is too big., Use spectra. They are very tail heavy, use your heavier engine. It still may need lead in the nose. Mine balance on the rear of the spar not the LE. Mike
 

[RknRusty]

42', that's good, I can fly that across the street from my house. Thanks guys, I'm good to go with that info. Got rubber duckys too. Any of you you coming to Huntersville?
Rusty

[mike londke]

Yep.

[kenneth cook]

                 Does this mean you will be flying 1/2A combat Rusty? Ken

[RknRusty]

Ken, no I'm not quite ready for that yet, I'd have to learn how to fly with someone else in the circle. But I do want to fly this thing, get the feel of it and see where it goes from there. Who knows, maybe I'll get the bug.
Due to Holley's work, we usually can't get there in time for the 1/2A event, but I've mentioned it to her for some time now, so maybe this time we will. Combat is her favorite event. Lol, crazy gal.
Rusty

[Al Ferraro]

Hi Rusty,
         Use the Norvel .061 on the Gladiator with 42 ft .012 lines. Mount the engine 1-1/4" from the front of the plane's engine block to the back plate of the engine. Use two pennies for tip weight on the outboard wing. Use a Cox 5'x3'P Thimble Drone black rubber ducky prop cut to 4".
 DO NOT USE THE COX BLACK RUBBER DUCKY PROP WITH THE SAFTY TIPS ON IT. IT WILL THROW THE BLADES !!!!!
For the best engine run pick up the head that uses the Nelson plug and use 20% nitro fuel.
This combo works great . Have fun!!!!
Al

[Al Ferraro]

 

[RknRusty]

Thanks Al, that makes it easy for me.

[kenneth cook]

               Has this plane been flown before? If not I would seriously look at the wing with a lot of scrutiny even to the point of warping the outboard wing up for initial flights. Everyone I've seen fly out of the box is flying so tip high that it becomes dangerous as it wants to fly across the circle. In addition, I would clean the trailing edge with alcohol and apply clear packing tape in thin strips wrapped from the top of the wing to the bottom from tip to center rib. The covering wants to shed off if precautions aren't taken. Increasing the size of the control horn is also of importance as it can desensitize the controls over the stock horn which is small. Having the correct handle spacing is also in order. Ken

[Al Ferraro]

Ken is correct about checking for wing warp and I even had models that look good but flew crazy. This is a easy fix, what I do is to twist the wing and use a heat gun to shrink the covering to hold it in place. If the plane fly's with the outboard wing up then you will want to twist the outboard wing up and heat it in place and twist the inboard wing down and heat that side too. Be carefull because you can over do it.
   I use the control horn that comes the the Gladiator but it is very important to use a handle with only 2 inch line spacing and mount the engine the way I described earlyer.
  On your first flight do not load the plane with a lot of fuel. Start with only 1oz and get the engine running good.  Let it go with only a 1/2 oz left in case it has a bad warp. Ken's other precaution are good to do before you get fuel on the model. Try to fly the model over a grass field that's not cut to low in case of an unexpected landing.
Al

[RknRusty]

Good tips, I wouldn't have thought to twist the wing. If I recall correctly, Mike told me to snip off some of the width of the elevator. Maybe that's an alternative to a longer horn? I will use a tame handle. I have a good one that looks like it was made from the handle of a polysomething chemical drum. I'll rewire it at 2". Thanks for reminding me how careful I need to be with this thing. I'll have an experienced launcher in Huntersville. I won't try to fly it before then. I launched one for Howard Shenton one day, with a Nelson of some sort on it. Damn thing scared the crap out of me Lol. I'm getting more excited than ever now.
Rusty

[mike londke]

Big horn, cut the tail down, ditch the pushrod that it comes with (way too heavy) and make a carbon fiber one. Small handle spacing, and change the leadouts Those are the things I mentioned to you Rusty. Its working for me. They are unflyable without modifications. Mike

[RknRusty]

Big horn, cut the tail down, ditch the pushrod that it comes with (way too heavy) and make a carbon fiber one. Small handle spacing, and change the leadouts Those are the things I mentioned to you Rusty. Its working for me. They are unflyable without modifications. Mike

Good, I remembered all that. I use CF on all my control rods nowadays. I have a larger bellcrank too. Here's what I have now. Not glued or screwed yet. That 1-1/4" gap to the backplate looks like it's begging to be snapped off, I'll bring plenty of lead in case we want to change that.

[howard shenton]

Rusty
Believe it or not it was a OS Max 25FSR. 10% nitro, 25% caster and a 9-4/5 prop. 75mph Speed Limit Plane.
Plane was designed for a Fox Mk III Combat Special which would upped your fear factor several notches.
A Nelson would have put you over the top if it didn't pull you off the ground first.
This was Rusty's first launch of a higher(?) performance combat wing. He did well.

Howar

[mike londke]

Good, I remembered all that. I use CF on all my control rods nowadays. I have a larger bellcrank too. Here's what I have now. Not glued or screwed yet. That 1-1/4" gap to the backplate looks like it's begging to be snapped off, I'll bring plenty of lead in case we want to change that.

It will snap off the first time you plant it. Why not use normal length mounts and put some lead up front? I cut a slit in the LE right above the wood and shove 1/4 oz right in the foam with a little epoxy. You can cover it with packing tape too.

[RknRusty]

It will snap off the first time you plant it. Why not use normal length mounts and put some lead up front? I cut a slit in the LE right above the wood and shove 1/4 oz right in the foam with a little epoxy. You can cover it with packing tape too.

I was following Al's advice, but since you'll be there to witness this thing I'll defer to you on this one.

Howard, thanks for clearing that up, I must've been embellishing the story. It was still a screaming mean plane. That's the fastest I ever exited the circle after I let it go.

[Al Ferraro]

( They are unflyable without modifications)
I've been flying the Gladiator for the past four years or more in 1/2A combat. I always use the stock control system and leadouts and have never had a problem. I put large silicon fuel tubing over the leadout ends and clips to prevent them from hanging up on each other, you just have to bend the lead out wire end a little.
  In the past, I have set up about five Gladiators this way with the Big Mig engines for my friends and I. The Gladiator was able to go toe to toe with a Light Hawk and come out with the win !!!!!
 From my experience if you plant one of these models at the speed they go 90% of the time there will be major damage. Since you are using wood mounts, I would put a groove in both mounts so it will have a break point to save the plane in case of a hard landing. Make up some extra wood mounts to have as spares at the contest, just in case you break one. By the time you change the bellcrank, leadouts, cut the elevator, add weight, carbon pushrod,,and recover everything, you might as well build a spare model.
Al

[mike londke]

( They are unflyable without modifications)
I've been flying the Gladiator for the past four years or more in 1/2A combat. I always use the stock control system and leadouts and have never had a problem. I put large silicon fuel tubing over the leadout ends and clips to prevent them from hanging up on each other, you just have to bend the lead out wire end a little.
  In the past, I have set up about five Gladiators this way with the Big Mig engines for my friends and I. The Gladiator was able to go toe to toe with a Light Hawk and come out with the win !!!!!
 From my experience if you plant one of these models at the speed they go 90% of the time there will be major damage. Since you are using wood mounts, I would put a groove in both mounts so it will have a break point to save the plane in case of a hard landing. Make up some extra wood mounts to have as spares at the contest, just in case you break one. By the time you change the bellcrank, leadouts, cut the elevator, add weight, carbon pushrod,,and recover everything, you might as well build a spare model.
Al

Al, you are using a Norvel.  I am running  Profi which is quite light. In fact lighter than the Fora's and Cyclons in the same class. The mods are required for it to fly well. The work is minimal and not equal to building a spare model. I never said to change the bellcrank or recover the model. Horn, pushrod and leadouts, and weight. was all I suggested. I set up 2 airplanes in under 1 hour just the other day. I am sure your models fly well, however I do not want my engine hanging out that far just to balance a tail heavy airplane. There are many approaches to tackle the problem and Rusty should have all the info available to him. He can decide for himself. I only have these planes because I got 8 of them for $10 a piece, even at that price they are not worth it.

[RknRusty]

Thanks for all the info, guys. I've got it under control. I'll show up with a good fast competent plane. When we light it up, we'll find out how good fast and competent the pilot is. If I do fly it well, maybe y'all can teach me some Combat maneuvers.
Rusty

[Al Ferraro]

I have most of the popular engines. The Norvel is the lightest and Picco is the heaviest. I set up all my models the same and mount engine where it needs to balance the model. I would not go to the contest without test flying the model first to see if it has a warp and needs to be twisted back into shape. My last two models flew with the outboard wing down about 10 inches in level flight.
Al

[mike londke]

6 of the 8 planes I bought had the same problem. Very bad wing warp on the outboard wing.

[RknRusty]

Okay Al, you asked earlier today, so here it is.

The control linkage:


The tail:


The nose:


The Gladiator:


I still have to tape up the covering, twist the wing, etc.
Now, where do I install a hook or something to tie a streamer to?
Rusty

[Al Ferraro]

 I hope the plane set up that way works for you. From what I see you will need about 1 1/2 oz of weight at the LE to make the plane flyable. You didn't have to glue the mounts into place, using the bolts with washers would have been good enough. I just tie the streamer around the elevator support. Don't forget your tip weight.
Al

[RknRusty]

It'll work. I won't forget. I'm going to re-review all the posts y'all wrote before I put her up.
Rusty

[RknRusty]

Hey, it flew pretty good. I'd been in Huntersville for about 10 minutes. Cooling my jets, sitting on the tail of my car with the gate up. I see Mike walking up the drive. From 50 yards, he holds his hands out like, So, where is it. I reached behind me and whipped it out, he took it and looked it over, Hmmm, it'll fly. Wanna do it now? I fidgeted a second, Well what are you here for!? Okay okay, that did it. I like a man that gets to the point.

We rigged it up and lit the fire. It has an AME .061 on it now, and a 4-1/4" Rubber Ducky. I waved it off and it went like a rocket when I caught up with it nearly overhead. About all I could do was keep it turning until I could figure out where the hell, or even how the hell to point it. I gradually worked it lower and made a couple of... what we stunters call Laps, and something that resembled 8s, not even close to lazy. I felt like I was gradually taming it when it flamed out. As soon as the engine cut, it came into the circle with the lines crumpling, Mike shouts UP! But ain't no way I was going to catch it, so I just watched it fall. I was within reach of one corner of the paved runway, and that's where it hit nose first.

It looked okay so I let Mike try it. He waved it off and it flew sraight into the ground. Ooops... uh Mike, I hold the handle backwards. You What! Sorry, I should've mentioned that. Ya think! Okay, we got past that and launched it again and he was zinging around for a while then looks over and yawns and grins. I think my wife has all this on her phone, I'll check. All of a sudden he starts doing something like vertical figure 8s like I've never seen before. I'm pretty impressed. Mike shouts, The weights came off. Ha! he held onto it a long time, but the end was inevitable. It didn't hurt it too bad, just a tape job and I'll be flying it across the street from my house. That was a pretty damn entertaining way to start the weekend. Thanks everyone who answered all my clueless questions. It was worth it and I'll keep flying it until I can tame it. I was getting there. I think with a little more fuel I would have smoothed it out pretty good. I'll look for any pictures or video on the phone.
Rusty

[RknRusty]

Here's Mike flying my Li'l Gladiator... and yawning.
Pardon, Holley gets a little distracted while filming.

[Andre Ming]

Enjoyed the videos!

You guys are SO LUCKY to have such a nice flying field and all that flying action!