Questions regarding Goodyear and Clown.

[Jim Roselle]

Hello all,
I am looking for information on Goodyear and clown racing models.

As far as Goodyear:
 What is typical wing area on one of these models?
 Built up or solid wing?
 What is the thickness of the airfoil?
 What speeds to they fly at?

And for clown racing:
 How thick is the airfoil?
 What speed do they fly?

Thank you,
Jim

[Motorman]

need more info, what engines are you using? Are you talking about AMA Scale racing goodyear or one of the many watered down goodyear events? Either one is built to scale so, whatever wing area the full scale plane had transfers proportionally to the model + or - 5%. I think the smallest wing is 115 Sq. In. on the Dick Ohm Special but they fly much better with about 130 squares. Usually 3/8" solid balsa wing. You can increase the stab area up to 25% of the wing area but everything else has to be 1/8 scale. Speeds are around 120 mph. It's all in the AMA rule book.

The thickness of the clown wing might be a hotly contested dimension. The last time I asked about this I was told to build a plane, drive all the way to the nats, rent a hotel room for three days and then finally we'll tell you if it's ok with our go/no go gauge, which of course was a ridiculous answer. I think the accepted norm might be 1-1/8" but from all the original kits I've seen I make mine 1-5/32" before covering.

Clown is a limited tank size event so speed can be almost anything depending on strategy. I've had mine up to 115 mph with my maximum pit stop strategy.

Hope that helps,
MM

[Jim Roselle]

Motorman,
Thank you. Here's why I was asking. My club has a 80/100mph bracket racing event. Basically whoever comes closest to 80 or 100mph without going over wins. Rules state .36 max engine size and minimum 300squares 1" thick airfoil, 60' .018 lines. I want to make a rules proposal that would allow smaller engines to be competitive. The club is reluctant to do away with the  minimum wing area rule for safety concerns as we fly in a mall parking lot. I want to propose a .15 size class with appropriate, time tested wing area and line size.  I will also propose what is basically 1/2a profile proto class. If the goal is getting closest to 80/100mph without going over, being timed for 1 mile from takeoff, the two new classes I propose and the original .36 class should all be able to compete in the same event on a level playing field.

Jim

[BillLee]

Jim, that sounds more like a proto speed event, not a racing event. Racing involves multiple pilots, quick starts, fast pit stops,"mine is faster than yours", etc.  Bracket "racing" doesn't seem to make much sense, bracket speed (ala Perky) does.

Good luck in your efforts. Walt's comments (other than his editorial comments regarding the NATs: he won't ever go there! ) are pretty much spot on.

[Motorman]

Don't know why I come here.


MM

[Paul Smith]

Why bother with 36's?  You can't hardly find one and when you do they go so fast the event needs to get slowed down.

The world has gone to 2.5 cc (.1525 cubic inches).  You can buy a 15 easy but even they go too fast unless you really dumb down the event.

I timed an old style unlimited Clown like a proto speed plane and it did 91 for the standing 16 laps.
More modern Brodak-legal Clown with an LA15 did 77 MPH and won a contest for such models.
Both of these planes were set up with milage in mind - most laps on one ounce.  They could go faster in a pure speed setup.

[BillLee]

Don't know why I come here.


MM

I don't know why you don't come to the NATs and PROVE how good you are! 

[Les Akre]

MM

I'll tell you how "usefull" that Clown Race rib thickness checking gauge was. During processing for Clown Race at the 2004 Nat's, my entry (which was borrowed)  was checked. The wing thickness wasn't anywhere near as big as the gauge opening, at which point the person processing made the comment that it was pretty small. Ron Duly stepped up with a rib from an original PDQ flying Clown kit, and it gauged smaller than the ribs on my entry. Nothing more was said! I imagine that gauge is now a door stop or something.

Les

[Jim Roselle]

Thanks for the info guys!

[Motorman]

I don't know why you don't come to the NATs and PROVE how good you are!  

Last Sunday I won Foxberg, I won Heavy Metal with a new club record then, without flying any planes, they gave me the first place trophy in slow rat purely out of respect. That proves I have fun flying with my friends and that's good enough for me.

As for the nats, the weather that time of year is hot humid and windy.
All told it would probably cost me over $1000.
All of my friends have come back from the nats with a story about how they were DQed for something questionable or certain people setting records with no tech after. I just get the idea the nats is an expensive bogus venue with miserable weather. Who wants to jump into that meat grinder. I fly for fun.    

MM

  

[john e. holliday]

I have been an assistant ED and Ed for racing several times at past NATS.   If we don't follow the rules people get upset.   One year while I was still a competitor and individuals plane was 3 square inches under the minimum wing area.   Oh what a hassle until someone pulled them aside and epoxied a 3 inch+ piece of balsa to out board wing tip.  In the events engines were torn down so they could be checked.  In fact one individual disqualified his self when he pulled back plate and found the engine he bought off someone had been ground on.   Oh there are people that will try things.  Haven't been to a NATS for several years and would love to do it again.   But, with lack of entries and also man power to help run the events, I guess short cuts are taken.   

I don't think the competitors would want me back.   So until you have been to a NATS and witnessed the happenings, don't believe all you hear.   I think my 8th grade teacher told us that way back then,  Believe only half of what you see and nothing of what you hear.