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Author Topic: Another Drone  (Read 3483 times)

Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Another Drone
« on: September 18, 2014, 09:20:04 AM »
 9-18-2014, NYC, Police: NYPD Helicopter Has Near Miss With Drone Over Brooklyn.

NYC Mayor upset. 

In July, two men were arrested after allegedly flying a drone too close to an NYPD helicopter near the George Washington Bridge.
Police have also had incidents with drones over Times Square and near Citi Field.



Chuckie Schumer:

"Describing New York City as the wild west for drone activity, Sen. Charles Schumer called on federal officials in August to speed up regulations for the small, remote-controlled aircraft."

A typical politician of the worst kind. Another law and/or regulation will not help when people don't read them.

AMA and the "Hobby Industry" push selling these things. Now they are upset because people that they cannot control, fly them.

« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 09:37:34 AM by Tom Niebuhr »
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Offline Tony Drago

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Re: Another Drone
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2014, 10:33:32 AM »
Next, there will be a  mandatory back ground check for any and all R/C aircraft,
with a 5 day waiting piriod to boot.

Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: Another Drone
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2014, 11:40:29 AM »
Next, there will be a  mandatory back ground check for any and all R/C aircraft,
with a 5 day waiting piriod to boot.

Given some of the folks that fly R/C, that might not be such a bad Idea!!! LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~

Hey...only kidding!!!  Uhhh I think I'm only kidding...Hmmmmmm... %^@

Randy Cuberly
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Offline Tony Drago

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Re: Another Drone
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2014, 12:31:49 PM »
Given some of the folks that fly R/C, that might not be such a bad Idea!!! LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~

Hey...only kidding!!!  Uhhh I think I'm only kidding...Hmmmmmm... %^@

Randy Cuberly
Randy your right on. Here in Vegas with the owners ok to fly on their private land both R/C and C/L.( R/C has there own paved runway.)
The owners have their rules. Don't interfear with others and DO NOT fly OVER the 5 near by houses. Well the RC'ers
constently fly over and some times buzz the C/L circles. They also fly in the NO FLY ZONE where the houses are,about 100 feet above.
You try to be diplomatic about it and ask them to abide by the rules. Needless to say you can guess what they say.

Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: Another Drone
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2014, 12:41:59 PM »
I can guess what they're going to say when the Feds say No More R/C!

 n1 n1 n1 n1 n1 n1 n1

Randy Cuberly
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Offline peabody

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Re: Another Drone
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2014, 01:14:51 PM »
There are those among us that don't see a need for our AMA......
There will, no doubt, be a clampdown on RC flying.....our AMA is all that keeps politicians from saying "no more MODEL AVIATION".
Tom Niebuhr may (he's getting old) recall when the RC guy flew into a Goodyear blimp, and the result was that ALL model aviation activity was banned from the Giant's parking lot in the Meadowlands...

I think we would do well if each of us reached out to our AMA VP's and AVP's and reminded them that control line is "tethered flight" and does not constitute a threat.

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Another Drone
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2014, 03:07:01 PM »
I think it would be great if all RC model plane was banned from flying anywhere but in designated areas.   If they can't abide by that then confiscate all their equipment.  I don't feel sorry for the RC guys as when I tried to get some help from some for a circle,  they turned their back and said it was not their problem.
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Offline WLGeorge

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Re: Another Drone
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2014, 03:35:55 PM »
Mr. Holliday I respectfully and strongly disagree with you.  To ban all rc flying except in designated areas would prevent me from flying on my own property.  I have enough property that I am able to fly without bothering anyone.  My closest neighbor is well over a mile away.  I am not a big fan of the AMA as I well remember feeling abandoned by them.  The government is not likely to make a distinction between rc and our sport.  We all look guilty to a political agenda.  We have plenty of laws in this country,  we don't really need any more and we don't need to appear divided to a bureaucrat whose only agenda is to prolong his tenure in D.C.  Respectfully, WL George.

Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: Another Drone
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2014, 04:32:42 PM »
Mr. Holliday I respectfully and strongly disagree with you.  To ban all rc flying except in designated areas would prevent me from flying on my own property.  I have enough property that I am able to fly without bothering anyone.  My closest neighbor is well over a mile away.  I am not a big fan of the AMA as I well remember feeling abandoned by them.  The government is not likely to make a distinction between rc and our sport.  We all look guilty to a political agenda.  We have plenty of laws in this country,  we don't really need any more and we don't need to appear divided to a bureaucrat whose only agenda is to prolong his tenure in D.C.  Respectfully, WL George.

Actually, the Government (The FAA), already makes a distinction between CL flight and R/C and Free Flight in that CL models are considered Tethered Kites and not subject to the FAA Regulations covering R/C or Free Flight models!

Local law enforcement agencies could be some problem but properly approached it should be possible to educate their leadership to the differences.

I'm sure the modeling industry would be quick to court Control Line and begin to provide support in terms of money and supplies for Control Line modeling as well as political support for control line modeling.  They're not stupid and would realize that is their only option to sell modeling supplies as it was in the 1940's and 1950's.

Interesting that the Terrorists have managed to push some technology or at least the general use of it back by more than 50 years!  Of course most of those idiots live in the stone age anyway!

Randy Cuberly
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Offline david beazley

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Re: Another Drone
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2014, 04:33:20 PM »
If and when the feds crack down it wont be just on R/C, it will be ALL of model aircraft.  
It's only paranoia if they aren't really after you.
Analog man trapped in a digital world
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Offline John Stiles

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Re: Another Drone
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2014, 04:55:40 PM »
If and when the feds crack down it wont be just on R/C, it will be ALL of model aircraft.  
Nah.....techno world is moving too fast now for anything like that to happen. The modeling industry will die of it's own volition, because the generations will progress away from simple control line...not enough young people to sustain it indefinitely. All the new technological gizmos are robbing us of recruits. Next you'll be able to use your i-phone to transport yourself from one place to another! You won't need a drone! ;D
John Stiles             Tulip, Ar.

Offline Bill Heher

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Re: Another Drone
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2014, 05:27:33 PM »
If and when the feds crack down it wont be just on R/C, it will be ALL of model aircraft.  

and as has been stated before- the FAA has already stated that C/L model are not Model Aircraft- they are tethered objects, like the big gorilla at Al"s Buy here- Pay here AutoWorld! Balloons, blow-up dancing dudes, and all the other advertising tethered objects- the FAA is not interested in what happens with them.
Bill Heher
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If it ain't broke- let me see it for a minute AMA 264898- since 1988!

Offline Scott Richlen

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Re: Another Drone
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2014, 09:06:11 PM »
So I notice in October MA's Focal Point, where you normally see the airplanes people build, a guy holding some quadcopter with FPV.  Oh joy!  Seven pictures of airplanes and one of a .....what??

So, since we seem to be getting into "not really airplanes" can I send in a picture of me flying a plane on a simulator on my laptop?  Is that where this whole thing is going?  How about on me flying a quad-copter on a simulator on my laptop?  Better yet - can I hook up FPV goggles to my laptop so I can see the simulated terrain my simulated quadcopter is (simulatingly) flying over????

This is all getting too stupid for words: we are supposed to write the FAA, asking them to not ban non-model airplanes (quadcopters) from doing stupid things like peeking into people's windows or to not ban RC planes that are being flown by FPV for the joy of some dimwit to get his jollies by doing something "new and different."  And somehow we should feel bad because we are holding technology and model airplanes "back" because we do not endorse this incredibly irresponsible behavior?

Happily, tomorrow morning I'll be actually flying my Legacy and physically feeling it on its .018 stranded steel lines.  And I'll have an actual first person view of my big yellow airplane as it actually goes round and round.  Tethered flight forever!!

Scott

Offline John Stiles

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Re: Another Drone
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2014, 05:14:19 AM »
They'll hafta pry my Ringmaster from my cold dead hands!  LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ ;D
John Stiles             Tulip, Ar.

Offline Scott Richlen

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Re: Another Drone
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2014, 05:45:15 AM »
The west wasn't won..
with a registered Stunt Wagon...

 ;D

Online Matt Colan

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Re: Another Drone
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2014, 06:03:33 AM »
I feel like I can guarentee the people that are doing this are probably not AMA members. The former president of the Deland RC club and I had a conversation about this and his suggestion was people should have to show their AMA membership to the people working at the hobby shop in order to purchase these things. Personally, I don't think that's a bad idea...
Matt Colan

Offline WLGeorge

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Re: Another Drone
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2014, 06:13:17 AM »
It doesn't really bother them to pry the Ringmaster from your cold bloody fingers:-). Easier that way.  History is written by the winners except the Battle of the Little Big Horn and the Alamo. I always figured Custer had it coming.   I guess it all depends on your viewpoint.

Offline John Stiles

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Re: Another Drone
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2014, 05:34:33 PM »
It doesn't really bother them to pry the Ringmaster from your cold bloody fingers:-). Easier that way.  .......
Not really, they'd have to do it here on my farm in LA[lower arkansas] and I guard it jealously with weapons from the darkside! LOL And I will prosecute interlopers with extreme prejudice! VD~ ;) ;D
John Stiles             Tulip, Ar.

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Another Drone
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2014, 06:34:02 PM »
I feel like I can guarentee the people that are doing this are probably not AMA members. The former president of the Deland RC club and I had a conversation about this and his suggestion was people should have to show their AMA membership to the people working at the hobby shop in order to purchase these things. Personally, I don't think that's a bad idea...

   I do. The AMA was never conceived of as a law enforcement agency.  And in point of fact, there is already a law (quoted endlessly in this debate) that no one has the legal authority to regulate "model aircraft". So making the primary model aircraft organization, effectively, regulating things that AREN'T model aircraft doesn't seem to make sense. I certainly don't want them to act as gatekeepers. 

    Also, from another perspective, suppose you do say the AMA is in charge, and this becomes the gatekeepers. We have half-a-dozen threads in the past few months about how the AMA seems to be 100% in the pockets of the drone vendors and other industry types. How are they going to be able to "regulate" something that is a huge part of their revenue stream? At least it gives them a conflict of interest.  I guarantee the casual buyers are not going to plunk down another $65 or whatever on a $100 ARF/RTF just for the privilege of buying, and in any case, why do you think having added a surcharge is going to make them responsible?  The reason that the AMA members don't cause most of these incidents is they were responsible enough to become AMA members in the first place. Getting a AMA card, basically because you are forced to, doesn't address the problem.


    The end result of drone use is what should be subject to legal action. There are a fantastic number of laws on the books, and something in the area of criminal mischief to reckless endangerment should apply to cases where people were, say, recklessly endangered, as most of these incidents seem to claim. You don't need any equivalent new law that says the same thing  with "...with a quadcopter" tacked on at the end.

 
      Brett


Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Another Drone
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2014, 08:01:20 PM »
    The end result of drone use is what should be subject to legal action. There are a fantastic number of laws on the books, and something in the area of criminal mischief to reckless endangerment should apply to cases where people were, say, recklessly endangered, as most of these incidents seem to claim. You don't need any equivalent new law that says the same thing  with "...with a quadcopter" tacked on at the end.

 
      Brett


[/quote]

    I'll agree with this. People have been prosecuted to the full extent of the law for flying kites too high near the airport here (don't look at me!). It falls under the malicious mischief area and just some common sense should apply here. Same thing as spray painting graffiti, except it's more dangerous and should be treated as such when punished. We got so damn many laws now that most have been forgotten about! I just don't get the whole quadcopter thing. Don't own one and don't plan to. If it can't at least glide, I ain't interested in it.
   Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee
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Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: Another Drone
« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2014, 08:06:12 PM »
   I do. The AMA was never conceived of as a law enforcement agency.  And in point of fact, there is already a law (quoted endlessly in this debate) that no one has the legal authority to regulate "model aircraft". So making the primary model aircraft organization, effectively, regulating things that AREN'T model aircraft doesn't seem to make sense. I certainly don't want them to act as gatekeepers. 

    Also, from another perspective, suppose you do say the AMA is in charge, and this becomes the gatekeepers. We have half-a-dozen threads in the past few months about how the AMA seems to be 100% in the pockets of the drone vendors and other industry types. How are they going to be able to "regulate" something that is a huge part of their revenue stream? At least it gives them a conflict of interest.  I guarantee the casual buyers are not going to plunk down another $65 or whatever on a $100 ARF/RTF just for the privilege of buying, and in any case, why do you think having added a surcharge is going to make them responsible?  The reason that the AMA members don't cause most of these incidents is they were responsible enough to become AMA members in the first place. Getting a AMA card, basically because you are forced to, doesn't address the problem.


    The end result of drone use is what should be subject to legal action. There are a fantastic number of laws on the books, and something in the area of criminal mischief to reckless endangerment should apply to cases where people were, say, recklessly endangered, as most of these incidents seem to claim. You don't need any equivalent new law that says the same thing  with "...with a quadcopter" tacked on at the end.

 
      Brett



AMEN!!!  'Nuff said about that!

Randy Cuberly
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Offline 55chevr

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Re: Another Drone
« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2014, 08:51:33 AM »
Quad copters can be flown by anyone with limited practice and little skill.  The people buying them and flying in obviously densely populated areas where the potential for harm is great are considering them toys not aircraft.   The result is what we are now seeing on the news.    Just a matter of time until there is a collision with manned aircraft.  I would anticipate some serious escalation of interest by all involved then.
Joe Daly

Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: Another Drone
« Reply #22 on: September 21, 2014, 09:49:32 AM »
This past Friday 9-19-2014 the New York Post had another article about two incidents back in July. These people have an agenda, and don't care and don't read FAA rulings. All they know is that flying models are bad.

This will continue even though CL is grouped with tethered kites.  Some will insist that leadouts are actually antennas.

 Again, AMA loves the advertising money from Quad copters, very large RC, and Jets. All can be dangerous to full size aircraft and to people if they have a "glitch".

Mr. Peabody:
 Look who is talking about old. I now walk over a mile a day at a very fast pace. I ride a bike 5 miles or more... can you do that? I go the gym 3 times a week.  I ALSO NEVER SMOKED... CAN YOU SAY THAT?

Almost everyone on this forum is above 60 or 65, We are all older. Old today is 90.


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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Another Drone
« Reply #23 on: September 21, 2014, 10:14:41 AM »
guys,, for the sake of OUR hobby,, regardless of whether you fly RC or not,, how about refering to these as quadcopters,, NOT DRONES,, words have meanings, and to the goverment,, Drones are bad,, quadcopters are a hobby,, it matters
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
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Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Another Drone
« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2014, 02:22:51 PM »
I just noticed Mark's AMA number 840000 plus! I wonder how many of those are active today?

Also, I was told that some idiot dropped a quad-copter into one of the incredibly fragile pools at Yellowstone, and they have no way to extract it without further damage! And it is ILLEGAL to fly any RC model there!  Gee, do we need a new law saying it is illegal to break the law? (OOPS, don't let some politician see that, or he will think it is the NEXT BIG THING!)

And don't get me started on some of the other official insanities.  HB~>
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Juan Valentin

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Re: Another Drone
« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2014, 06:40:07 PM »
Hello Larry
                    Was the person that dropped the quadcopter fined or punished in anyway,did he get into some real problem? Maybe some stiff fines and a lot of publicity to problem the person got in might slowdown or stop the unlawful use in areas where they are dangerous and prohibited.

                                                                                                                                                                       juan

Offline Sean McEntee

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Re: Another Drone
« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2014, 07:20:37 PM »

Almost everyone on this forum is above 60 or 65, We are all older. Old today is 90.




Almost :)

The only living winner of the Darwin Award tied a bunch of weather balloons to a lawn chair, then tied it to the bumper of his jeep. He tore the bumper off and took off, eventually drifting over LAX I believe. He was eventually intercepted and picked up by helicopter.

He was also slammed with almost a $250,000 in fines by the FAA for violating a truckload of FARs, to include no pilots license, unregistered aircraft, and a bunch of airspace infractions.

What those regulations governing UAS will do is give law enforcement more leverage to impose stiffer penalties, and won't accept "well I didn't know".   That will wake people up real quick.

As for CL being balled up into all this...please stop complaining about it-- we're fine.


Online Matt Colan

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Re: Another Drone
« Reply #27 on: September 21, 2014, 08:02:58 PM »
   I do. The AMA was never conceived of as a law enforcement agency.  And in point of fact, there is already a law (quoted endlessly in this debate) that no one has the legal authority to regulate "model aircraft". So making the primary model aircraft organization, effectively, regulating things that AREN'T model aircraft doesn't seem to make sense. I certainly don't want them to act as gatekeepers. 

    Also, from another perspective, suppose you do say the AMA is in charge, and this becomes the gatekeepers. We have half-a-dozen threads in the past few months about how the AMA seems to be 100% in the pockets of the drone vendors and other industry types. How are they going to be able to "regulate" something that is a huge part of their revenue stream? At least it gives them a conflict of interest.  I guarantee the casual buyers are not going to plunk down another $65 or whatever on a $100 ARF/RTF just for the privilege of buying, and in any case, why do you think having added a surcharge is going to make them responsible?  The reason that the AMA members don't cause most of these incidents is they were responsible enough to become AMA members in the first place. Getting a AMA card, basically because you are forced to, doesn't address the problem.


    The end result of drone use is what should be subject to legal action. There are a fantastic number of laws on the books, and something in the area of criminal mischief to reckless endangerment should apply to cases where people were, say, recklessly endangered, as most of these incidents seem to claim. You don't need any equivalent new law that says the same thing  with "...with a quadcopter" tacked on at the end.

 
      Brett



Good points Brett. I never thought to think of it in the legal sense. I was thinking more in a way of how to keep the idiots from buying these quadcopters and potentially ruining the fun of model aircraft for the rest of us
Matt Colan

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Another Drone
« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2014, 08:48:24 PM »
Good points Brett. I never thought to think of it in the legal sense. I was thinking more in a way of how to keep the idiots from buying these quadcopters and potentially ruining the fun of model aircraft for the rest of us

  I wouldn't argue with your goal - but many times the cure turns out to be worse than the cause, unless you are very careful. You need to be particularly careful about laws and regulations, many times the goal is so good that it is co-opted to force through poor legislation or regulation.

     Brett

Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: Another Drone
« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2014, 01:55:58 AM »
  I wouldn't argue with your goal - but many times the cure turns out to be worse than the cause, unless you are very careful. You need to be particularly careful about laws and regulations, many times the goal is so good that it is co-opted to force through poor legislation or regulation.

     Brett

Uhhhhh...Yeah!  Case in point Obama Care!!!  ~^ n~

Randy Cuberly
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Offline John Stiles

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Re: Another Drone
« Reply #30 on: September 22, 2014, 05:02:54 AM »
The days of income tax returns is almost over!  LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~
John Stiles             Tulip, Ar.

Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: Another Drone
« Reply #31 on: September 22, 2014, 06:01:07 AM »
I used the word "Drone" because that is what the media is using. They could care less that they are quadcopters. Unfortunately, while ignorance of the law is applied to the perpetrator it never appplies to the press. They will group all model airplanes with their thinking, and unfortunately they trigger the emotional response of the public and law makers.

A few years ago there was a young teenage girl that was attempting to be the youngest pilot to fly coast to coast. Unfortunately she was killed taking off in bad weather. The media was relentless in crying "there ought to be a law". Their ignorance didn't matter. Only their sensationalism mattered. The fact was that she was not Pilot in Command (P.I.C.). Her instructor was on board with her and he was P.I.C.

I repeat: Ignorance of rules, regulations, laws, never applies to the media and unfortunately many of the law makers.

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Offline Steven Kientz

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Re: Another Drone
« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2014, 02:23:46 PM »
Its rather ironic that when I got to the bottom  of this thread there was an ad for a Quadcopter with the title DRONEFLY.
Steve Kientz
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Offline 55chevr

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Re: Another Drone
« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2014, 07:01:05 PM »
The balloon chair deal is true.  Larry Walters was the "pilot".  The fine was only $1500 for an uninspected aircraft. 
Joe Daly

Offline Sean McEntee

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Re: Another Drone
« Reply #34 on: September 26, 2014, 10:21:32 PM »
The balloon chair deal is true.  Larry Walters was the "pilot".  The fine was only $1500 for an uninspected aircraft. 

You are correct. I thought they got him for more. Could very well have

Offline 55chevr

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Re: Another Drone
« Reply #35 on: September 27, 2014, 05:16:25 AM »
I think that the FAA will create an unenforceable regulation.  Similar to the cockpit lazer deal. 
Joe Daly

Offline billbyles

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Re: Another Drone
« Reply #36 on: September 27, 2014, 05:10:41 PM »
You are correct. I thought they got him for more. Could very well have

Hey Sean,

His "aircraft" was uninspected and unregistered but at least he had a method of altitude control: a BB gun with which to pop a few balloons to bring the whole thing down again! Very technologically advanced...
Bill Byles
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Offline Sean McEntee

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Re: Another Drone
« Reply #37 on: September 27, 2014, 05:21:58 PM »
Hey Sean,

His "aircraft" was uninspected and unregistered but at least he had a method of altitude control: a BB gun with which to pop a few balloons to bring the whole thing down again! Very technologically advanced...

haha untill he dropped the BB gun.

There was a guy a few years ago that built another lawnchair balloon, but was more refined and perfectly legal--had a registration number and everything.  He flew it across lake Winnebago up at Airventure one year.

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Another Drone
« Reply #38 on: September 27, 2014, 07:16:29 PM »
haha untill he dropped the BB gun.

There was a guy a few years ago that built another lawnchair balloon, but was more refined and perfectly legal--had a registration number and everything.  He flew it across lake Winnebago up at Airventure one year.

    And Jan Pott has an autographed piece of one of his hand crafted balloons! I forget the guys name, but we watched him launch one evening and watched him disappear into the evening haze. He made the crossing, and set some sort of distance and duration record for cluster ballooning. There was an article in Sport Aviation or Air and Space on him, and what he had to do to get his lawn chair inspected and legal, it even had a "N" number on it! Was kinda cool actually. Were you there that year? Can't remember what year exactly.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
    Dan McEntee
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Offline Mike Keville

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Re: Another Drone
« Reply #39 on: September 27, 2014, 07:45:27 PM »
Maybe an urban legend, but maybe not:  word has it that several years ago some guy in Brazil launched himself in a "balloon chair", headed out over the South Atlantic.....and hasn't been seen since.
 
FORMER member, "Academy of Multi-rotors & ARFs".


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