Hourglass

[donchandler]

When I fly the hourglas I always end up with the exit to the manuever to my left.  Earlier today I took a couple of flights and tried to enter the hourglass right in front of me in order to enter more to the right thinking I would then not be so far to the left at the exit, didn't work.

Any advice?

Don

[Mike Keville]

Spend less time on the top leg.  When at 90 deg., fly 'bang-bang' before descent.  Also, you may be descending more-or-less vertically - a frequently-seen error.

(Note: this is spoken as a former judge...certainly not as an accomplished flyer.)

[Brett Buck]

When I fly the hourglas I always end up with the exit to the manuever to my left.  Earlier today I took a couple of flights and tried to enter the hourglass right in front of me in order to enter more to the right thinking I would then not be so far to the left at the exit, didn't work.

Any advice?

   I only vaguely recall what I saw the last time I watched but I have an educated guess - you probably aren't climbing nearly high enough, and not turning the second corner nearly enough. What I see, time after time, is that the ascending leg is hardly any higher than a triangular loop, and the second corner is just a slight jog to the left. This puts the third corner nearly directly overhead, with no speed, and then the third corner has to be nearly a 180, which usually results in a stall and coming out way to the left of where it should.

I would suggest greatly extending the climb. Find me at the Meat N'Meat and we can work on it.

    Brett

[Tim Wescott]

Second third corner?

A rule book hourglass would put the top leg of the hourglass exactly overhead, and crosswise of your body.  You should try to nail this exactly, or even do it a bit behind vertical.

I certainly tend to put the top of the hourglass in front of me instead of above; when you do that you just don't have room to put two turns overhead with a straight stretch in between.

I got a suggestion from Mike Haverly last year, which is to visualize a sheet of glass that runs through the balls of both feet and the top of your head.  Your wingover, and the top line of your hourglass, should be on that sheet.  The vertical eight should kiss it.  The overhead eights should be bisected by it.

[Bill Little]

I have always liked the technique that Ted Fancher described somewhere. (!?)  Set your body square to the maneuver and lead the model with your hand.  You turn up when the hand is over the left foot, fly a line toward your right shoulder to the top of the circle.  Turn the model towards your left shoulder right over the top of the circle, and turn down at your left shoulder.  Fly a path towards your right foot and level off when the hand is even with the right foot.  This gives you a feeling as to the width of the maneuver and make sure the top is cutting an arc 90* from level flight (top of circle).

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

[Dan Bregar]

Bill

Man, I really like your description !  I'm going to use it to try & improve my score on this one.  Thanks for sharing. 

Dan

[john e. holliday]

Big Bear,  that is basically what the late Allen Brichause used to tell us at the stunt clinics.   Turn at left foot, fly to right shoulder and over to left shoulder and down to right foot.   Most people make the hour glass too wide and that makes it hard to do the corners.

[Brett Buck]

Big Bear,  that is basically what the late Allen Brichause used to tell us at the stunt clinics.   Turn at left foot, fly to right shoulder and over to left shoulder and down to right foot.   Most people make the hour glass too wide and that makes it hard to do the corners.

  Most people make it FAR TOO SHORT, which a second corner at anywhere from 45 to 60 degrees. Turn maybe 110 degrees, climb to 60 (which is where the tops of the round loops were), make a vague outside jog of about 30 degrees, wind up still climbing steeply. Then they get near the top of the circle, and then try to do a near 180 with no speed to try to get the 4th turn where it belongs. This almost always fails, and the airplane stalls, sometimes 2-3 times, then come more or less straight down, and then its an emergency pullout just to save it. At least that is what I see time and again. They just can't bring themselves to let the airplane climb in a straight line to the top, it's like a counter goes off in their heads at about 2 seconds, and something has to happen then.

    Making it too wide is the second problem, but they do it because it's much easier to get the second corner to work, not harder. Many airplanes are not capable of doing the maneuver at the width specified and most of them can't do it in any sort of wind. Doing it wider makes the second corner easier and leaves room for recover over the top. It should get scored down, but not as much as getting blown out. This is one of those things from the other thread that isn't commonly recognized as a distinguishing item. The judges can see it, but the pilots usually have no idea why David got a 38 on his, and Joe Bellcrank got a 29 even when the bottoms are equally good, and attribute it to "halo" or something like that.

   Brett

[Steve Helmick]

What about biasing to the wind? Where do you suggest starting the first corner? We want the wind to help power up the climb and slow the dive. I've been trying to start at dead downwind, but I'm not altogether convinced that's the best.  No hurry...I don't fly officials until day after tomorrow. Steve

[Ted Fancher]

I have always liked the technique that Ted Fancher described somewhere. (!?)  Set your body square to the maneuver and lead the model with your hand.  You turn up when the hand is over the left foot, fly a line toward your right shoulder to the top of the circle.  Turn the model towards your left shoulder right over the top of the circle, and turn down at your left shoulder.  Fly a path towards your right foot and level off when the hand is even with the right foot.  This gives you a feeling as to the width of the maneuver and make sure the top is cutting an arc 90* from level flight (top of circle).

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

Bill,

One important caveat to your description.  It is essential when using your body parts as references "not" to move them during the maneuvering.  When the hourglass is flown as you describe it is important that your body gets just a bit ahead of the airplane so you can plant your feet shoulder width apart and square your shoulders up to your feet just before making the first turn.  From that point on the feet and shoulders remain fixed and, as you describe, you simply point your airplane to the next check point...left foot, right shoulder, left shoulder, right foot and take a bow to acknowledge the thunderous applause.  Well, maybe just pat yourself on the back for flying a 35+ trick.

Ted

p.s.  The same technique can change your overhead from looking like randomly rotating helicopter blades to something approximating what the rule book describes.  Again, get your body a bit ahead of the airplane square up your feet and as your shoulders catch up pull the ship up through the middle of your body to your head.  Tilt your body and neck backwards so the airplane actually enters the maneuver overhead and then do your best to fly the maneuver with your shoulders and head fixed...using peripheral vision to keep the airplane in sight (and, as an added bonus, somewhere near rule book size to keep it in view) fly the insides over your right shoulder and the outsides over your left...do a deft little pirouetted as the last outside is directly overhead to allow you to face the airplane coming downhill on the exit.

Turning your shoulders right and left to view the loops facing them will almost guarantees you will never get the intersections right (either over or underturning them) and the loops themselves will, once again, be placed in random places.

[Ted Fancher]

What about biasing to the wind? Where do you suggest starting the first corner? We want the wind to help power up the climb and slow the dive. I've been trying to start at dead downwind, but I'm not altogether convinced that's the best.  No hurry...I don't fly officials until day after tomorrow. Steve

I believe the hourglass "must" be performed with the intersection dead downwind.  It's practically a necessity to get it remotely symmetrical. It also helps you in a couple of places.  By definition your entry will be performed biased into the wind and the wind will provide energy to help accelerate the ship to the second corner which is critical to retain the energy necessary to complete the third corner precisely.  The descent will not be ideal because your last corner will be performed a bit down wind but not nearly so bad as if you started the first turn directly down wind. 

Done properly the ship will be in just a bit better location with the respect to the wind in the last corner than it is during your triangles...which will allow for perfectly adequate performance for making a brisk, flat pullout.  It will be a bit less downwind than the bottom right corner of triangles done dead downwind by virtue of being a bit narrower.  This is because the triangle is drawn out horizontally by virtue of the necessity of turning the second corner equidistant between the left and right bottom corners...and even a tight corner takes up some room and spreads the maneuver out a bit.  A properly vertical hourglass hasn't that corner and, as a result, the airplane gets to the bottom right corner in a bit better location than on dead downwind triangles.

At least that's my opinion.

In strong winds you are doing yourself a great disservice by making the first corner dead downwind and, thus, flying the whole maneuver to the right of downwind.  You give up a lot of energy in the initial climb and the last corner will be dramatically downwind robbing you of the lift you need to make a brisk recovery.

[GonzoBonzo]

Great stuff!  I'll have to give it a try.

[Don Chandler]

Thanks for the remarks. Brett, what you desscribed is exactly what I am doing wrong. i'll get in a few flights this week and work on it. See you at Meat and Meet.

Don

[Ted Fancher]

Thanks for the remarks. Brett, what you desscribed is exactly what I am doing wrong. i'll get in a few flights this week and work on it. See you at Meat and Meet.

Don

Brett's comments about the "abbreviated vertical development" of many less than expert level hourglasses made me reread my discussion of the "feet and shoulders as targets" in my earlier hourglass post.  What I left out that may have confused some is that the "target" for the second and third corners is at your shoulders while the airplane is *at the ~top of the hemisphere*, with your head tilted back so the top of the hemisphere is well within your vertical peripheral vision and your back arched somewhat short of where it would be for the overheads.

Speaking of the overheads again, remember that, in the overheads, you need to be able to keep the airplane within your peripheral vision while it is somewhat behind you...about 27.5 degrees worth since those overhead loops should be 45 degrees in diameter with half in front of you and half behind you!  Watch David Fitz do the overheads locally to see what the overhead posture should look like...you may want to consult your chiropractor before venturing to David's degree but this is the posture you should be picturing in your head during those two laps of thoughtful preparation prior to pulling up "vertically" to enter 'em.  Again, don't turn your head to follow the airplane around each of the loops...there is no more certain way to mess up intersections and concentricity than rotating your head while you've no earthbound reference to insure they are repeatedly co-located...the reward for which is an overhead that has the four loops in four...or more...different locations with respect to the intersection and intersections that are alternately either "X'd" or overturned rather than tangent to the four loops.

Ted

p.s.  I never said this was easy...just necessary to get the big numbers on the score sheet you're looking for.

[Steve Fitton]

Brett's comments about the "abbreviated vertical development" of many less than expert level hourglasses made me reread my discussion of the "feet and shoulders as targets" in my earlier hourglass post.  What I left out that may have confused some is that the "target" for the second and third corners is at your shoulders while the airplane is *at the ~top of the hemisphere*, with your head tilted back so the top of the hemisphere is well within your vertical peripheral vision and your back arched somewhat short of where it would be for the overheads.

Speaking of the overheads again, remember that, in the overheads, you need to be able to keep the airplane within your peripheral vision while it is somewhat behind you...about 27.5 degrees worth since those overhead loops should be 45 degrees in diameter with half in front of you and half behind you!  Watch David Fitz do the overheads locally to see what the overhead posture should look like...you may want to consult your chiropractor before venturing to David's degree but this is the posture you should be picturing in your head during those two laps of thoughtful preparation prior to pulling up "vertically" to enter 'em.  Again, don't turn your head to follow the airplane around each of the loops...there is no more certain way to mess up intersections and concentricity than rotating your head while you've no earthbound reference to insure they are repeatedly co-located...the reward for which is an overhead that has the four loops in four...or more...different locations with respect to the intersection and intersections that are alternately either "X'd" or overturned rather than tangent to the four loops.

Ted

p.s.  I never said this was easy...just necessary to get the big numbers on the score sheet you're looking for.

That is a lot harder than it sounds.  I tried that this morning in practice.  Question: if you hold your head still, can you move your eyes to follow the plane around the loops, or do they have to remain fixed on the top and truly just your peripheral vision left to (attempt) to follow the path of the plane?  I thought the track of the plane was *all over the place* if I wasn't watching it.

[Tim Wescott]

Steve, I'm not sure what Ted's going to say, but I find that if I have a good grip on the location of that "sheet of glass" that I was talking about, my flying just gets better from knowing where the plane is.  I move my head around in all five maneuvers that have an overhead component -- if I can keep the balls of my feet and that sheet of glass in my mind, then I always know where the plane is.  I can't necessarily make it go there -- but knowing where it is going helps me to do better next time.

[phil c]

That is a lot harder than it sounds.  I tried that this morning in practice.  Question: if you hold your head still, can you move your eyes to follow the plane around the loops, or do they have to remain fixed on the top and truly just your peripheral vision left to (attempt) to follow the path of the plane?  I thought the track of the plane was *all over the place* if I wasn't watching it.

Most people have nearly 170deg field of view without moving their eyes.  That is more than enough to track either the hourglass or the overhead eight.  The hourglass should be roughly 45deg. across the top. That often seems to narrow from the pilot's point of view. The overhead 8's should be about 90 deg. wide.  I've only seen a couple OH 8's that tight.  It's actually easier to fly tighter.  When the plane drifts down to 30 degrees, as most seem to, it is much harder to get the plane back up to the top of the circle without the wind blowing it around.  With actual 45deg loops the problem is more keeping any wind from tightening the turn up too much.

[Tom Niebuhr]

Ted said: "...left foot, right shoulder, left shoulder, right foot". Applause applause!

When I was a young pup. my coach, mentor and second father, John D'Ottavio, drilled that into me. He used to say left hip to right shoulder to left shoulder to right hip. Pretty much the same thought process.

The killer to the maneuver is over turning the first lower left corner. This makes the maneuver too wide and the the last corner almost impossible having to turn a ridiculous amount.  This is why you see "S" turns going down toward that lower right recover corner and/or the maneuver much too wide.

The pattern is a never ending mind game. You must be thinking all through it. Awareness of body positioning is ultra important.

[Steve Helmick]

Thanks to Ted for his Hourglass advise! I conned both judges out of 30+ points on mine this past weekend. What I really need now is to get a few extra Pattern Points... Steve