Micro Balloons

[Andrew Saunders]

I am starting to get all the needed materials together for my legacy build so i will have them when im ready for them. Where can  i get the Micro balloons?

[RC Storick]

I am starting to get all the needed materials together for my legacy build so i will have them when im ready for them. Where can  i get the glass balloons?

for what?

[Motorman]

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXHZ15&P=ML

[Dave_Trible]

Like Robert, I'd ask for what?  I've tried to use them as a filler but found they floated to the top and were all sanded away making them useless.

Dave

[Andrew Saunders]

I talked to Kenny Stevens today at my clubs contest and its what he uses for Fillets. Its also what was used on my Carribean cruiser and am interested in using them for fillets. I have allot of epoxy.

[RC Storick]

I talked to Kenny Stevens today at my clubs contest and its what he uses for Fillets. Its also what was used on my Carribean cruiser and am interested in using them for fillets. I have allot of epoxy.

NO! Superfil only!

[Andrew Hathaway]

How can micro balloons be so bad, and Superfil so good, when Polyfiber says on their website that Superfil contains micro balloons?   

Link: http://www.polyfiber.com/epoxy/
Screenshot:

[RC Storick]

You must mix Micro balloons with some type of binder resin,epoxy,bubble gum etc. A. its not as strong as superfil B.depending on what you use as a binder its harder than hell to sand and lastly C it's heaver that SF. Your choice, I have used everything on the market and SF is so far ahead of everything I am waiting for it to be discontinued as with everything that works good. Take my advice it will be the best 20 bucks you ever spent for supplies!

Use it as it comes out of the jar.

[bill bischoff]

Even us non-stunt guys will tell you Super Fil is the best thing going!  I've been using it for several years on racing and carrier planes after learning about it here. BTW, same praise for the NAPA DC540 gray primer!

[Andrew Hathaway]

No need to convince me, I've been using SuperFil for several years now.  Before that I used Sig micro balloons and whatever epoxy was on the shelf.  SuperFil is a bit easier to deal with, and certainly more consistent...  But seeing as how micro balloons are a primary component in SuperFil, it stands to reason that if the user mixes micro balloons with the same quality materials, with the same care and attention to detail that Polyfiber uses to make SuperFil, the end result should be the same.  SuperFil just takes the guesswork out of it.  

 

 

[Steve Helmick]

If you want to use a transparent finish, you use Micro Balloons/epoxy. The blue is pretty ugly! Steve

[Howard Rush]

I don't like Super Fil.

[Bill Burton]

I am starting to get all the needed materials together for my legacy build so i will have them when im ready for them. Where can  i get the Micro balloons?

Hi Andrew

I will answer your question you asked.   You asked a question and deserve a straight answer.   SIG MFG has them.  I have used both Super-Fil and 30 minute epoxy mixed with micro balloons for years for fillets.  Both work well for. fillets.  If you use epoxy and balloons, mix it to about the consistency of toothpaste, mask off the fillet line, I apply it with a craft stick, then dip my finger in rubbing alcohol and run down the fillet line until it is smooth.  Remove the tape and do it again with your alcohol coated finger and feather out the edges.  Do your a Super Fil the same exact way.

If you smooth it right, very little sanding is necessary.

Hope this helps.

BB

[Dan McEntee]

   Just my 2 cents worth relating to my hobby situation. I use micro balloons mixed with finish cure epoxy for fillets and filler where needed. Micro balloons weigh next to nothing by themselves. I mix up about 1/4 of epoxy in one of those little graduated mixing cups, and add micro balloons until the mixture is like cake icing, and that just about fills the cup. I spread it un the model with a pop-cycle stick or something similar to get the basic shape. The finish cure epoxy is a 20 minute product, but by adding the micro balloons, it slows the process way down to well over an hour so you have plenty of time to work with it. Lay out and prep the wing joint or canopy for it just like you would for anything else. Once you have the fillets laid in, smoothed out and cleaned up, wait for the stuff to start kicking off and curing by playing with what's left in the cup. When it gets pretty tacky, did your finger in alcohol and smooth everything out and feather the edges down flat. I have never had to sand these type of fillets. A good side benefit is I have never had paint lift off of them either, any kind of paint. I have used this method on wood to wood, wood to covered wings, wood to wings covered with Monokote (overlap the edge about a quarter of an inch) and fared in canopies with it. I'm sure Superfil is a great product, but what I like about the method I use is I always have the finish cure epoxy because I use that for glassing, and other fuel proofing uses, and for applying fibreglass patches to vintage motorcycle parts. I have had other specialty fillet material before that worked well, but it always goes bad before I can use it all because I don't get to build as much as I would like to. This just works well for me and my situation. I think it's a very good alternative to having to send away for the Superfil if you have a hobby shop near you that carries the finish cure epoxy and micro balloons, and one less product to go bad in between uses and take up space on the work bench shelf while getting to that state! What ever you use, if you like it, stick with it because that helps breed consistency. But it's always nice to have a "Plan B".
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

[Bill Burton]

Well Dan, great minds think alike.

BB

[Dan McEntee]

  I was just gonna say that Bill! At least we type at the same time. I think I posted about 10 seconds behind you.
   Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee

[John Sunderland]

I used micro balloons and epoxy for fillets for years. Bullet proof and makes for less epoxy/weight, sands quite easily and holds paint when well sanded and not over thinned.

[Paul Smith]

US Boat or any other marine chandler.  They also have a big selection of epoxy, glues, paint, and fiberglass stuff for use on boats but also handy for models.

I believe anything you get from the hobby industry will be samo-samo maybe with an RC label.

Micro ballons work good to bulk up epoxy or even white glue to fill gaps with far less weight that glue alone.

[Lauri Malila]

What kind of microballoons are you talking about? There are several types available; glass, phenolic, nylon, metal etc. balloons.
Depending on which you mix with what epoxy, you can choose wether you want a product that is better or worse than Super Fill.
Personally, I am not a big fan of Super Fill, especially using it on bare balsa it does not make much sense. I like more the ugly red SIG stuff. But also not on balsa.

Lauri

[Howard Rush]

Ugly red Sig stuff for me, too.

[Mark Scarborough]

I don't like Super Fil.

Howard,, I am VERY curious,, why dont you like Superfill

[RknRusty]

The white Microballoons I got from Sig are glass. Some other brands are phenolic.
Starting with my first try, I've made some beautiful fillets with the Sig brand and 30 or 60 minute epoxy. I mix them into the separate epoxy components first and then combine the thickened parts and go to work. They cure more quickly than the normal epoxy working time, especially in a mixing cup where the reaction heat is contained. For small jobs, mixing on paper gives a more normal working time since it can stay cooler while it's kicking.

Superfil sounds like something I'd like to have on my shelf too.

Rusty

[Steve Hines]

What you want is Fumed Silica. this is what is in superfil. The bad part is the way I can get its in a ten pound bag, but when opened it would fill 10 trash bags if not more. A coffee can of this would last for years. it has to be two times as light as micro balloons. It is real hard to get it to mix in. We had to turn off ventilation when we added It to paint or it would get sucked out of the tank. It is white in color.

Steve

[Fred Underwood]

Fumed Silica or Cabosil in small quantities

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Quart-Cabosil-Aerosil-fumed-silica-powder-/321504388286?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4adb27a4be

[Luiz Carlos Franco]

Aircraft Spruce also sells it in 1 lb bags (1 lb is about 3/4 gallon of the material).

Look up the link below, be sure to open the "overview" and the "documents" tags, they have good information for use.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/cm/fillers/bubbles.php.

Luiz

PS: I went to Oshkosh this year and brought back a bag in the suitcase. It arrived punctured probably by TSA. They must have been justifyably intrigued by a bag of very fine white powder !

[Randy Ryan]

Amazing how opinions vary on such a basic subject. I've used balloons for allot of years. Experimentation has made them a very viable fillet material for me, but before I could say that I had to learn what proportion to mix with the epoxy. I've had it float, I've had it too hard to sand, but after a while I learned that they need to be mixed in heavily to a VERY paste like consistency that will stay put where its placed and shaped. In this case the epoxy becomes a binder rather than glue and only a very thin coating surrounds the balloons and once it is broken through it is very easy to sand (yes I know, it will still flow to some degree but not allot, not enough to see). That said, whatever the shape you form should be as close to final as possible so that sanding is only a preparatory step to finishing and not a shaping exercise. I mask my fillets so I don't get the fillet all over the place which 1) saves weight and 2) makes sanding easier and 3) help make the fillets the same radius. For instance a 3/8 radius fillet means you mask out 3/8 from the fuse sides and the root was it exits the fuse, filler beyond that is excess. When the fillet is uniform you'll see the edges of the tape. Use something very thin like Magic tape or packaging tape and remove it as soon as the fillets are formed. Otherwise you may get a little upset when the edge of the tape keeps tearing off because its glued to the airplane. No matter what filler you use this is a good technique. Maybe I'll try some SuperFil next time around.

[Phil Krankowski]

A small quantity of glass microfibers or cotton flocking will make microballoons much easier to work with.  Epoxy can take up a crazy volume of straight microballoons, several times the volume of liquid epoxy!

After the pot is mixed, if a large batch is required, dump it out and spread it on a "mortarboard" so it does not build heat.

Phil

[Randy Powell]

Howard doesn't like SuperFil because it was mean to him once.

I prefer West Systems 404 filler and epoxy for the few times when I use it instead of SuperFil (which I do like). It works well with a transparent finish.

[Howard Rush]

I like Cab-O-Sil.

[Allan Perret]

I prefer West Systems 404 filler and epoxy for the few times when I use it instead of SuperFil (which I do like). It works well with a transparent finish.

Based on this   Filler Selection Guide    "http://www.westsystem.com/ss/fillers/"    I used the 410 with finishing resin to make balsa colored fillets on the RMD because it was a transparent finish. I was happy with results.  Plan to also try the 407 at some point. Both of these are lighter than the 404 which is supposed to make it easier to sand.  

[Randy Powell]

I didn't think 407 held together that well. 410 is OK and I've used it for stuff. I like 404 because it's very easy to sand and the color can be messed with mixing it with 410 or 407 to get it right for transparent finishes. But I still like SuperFil if I don't have to worry about transparency.

[Bill Burton]

Where can you buy the West System fillers on line?

Thanks
BB

[Allan Perret]

Where can you buy the West System fillers on line?

Thanks
BB

Amazon for one. 
You can usually find it at most of the local Marine Supply stores, so if you search for online Marine Supply sites you will likely find others.

[Bill Burton]

Thank you Allan