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Author Topic: Film over tissue  (Read 3663 times)

Offline Larry Renger

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Film over tissue
« on: August 28, 2014, 09:19:03 AM »
Dang, I thought I invented this technique, but John Miller used it on his twin Pathfinder in 2010!  I saw it in the Flying models (  :'( sniff! ) article from that year. It is a fantastically good way to finish a model anyway.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline dennis lipsett

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Re: Film over tissue
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2014, 01:04:16 PM »
Dang, I thought I invented this technique, but John Miller used it on his twin Pathfinder in 2010!  I saw it in the Flying models (  :'( sniff! ) article from that year. It is a fantastically good way to finish a model anyway.
.

It's older than that Larry. When Monokote was introduced in 1965 it was the sticky stuff that later became trim Monokote. The instructions stated to cover the model with silkspan and then put the film over it. I can attest to the fact that I did do that so it is a 49 years old idea. I also did it on my Edge 540 do put the Monokote on in separate pieces. Good ideas seem to recycle themselves regularly

Offline Jim Thomerson

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Re: Film over tissue
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2014, 03:15:13 PM »
I routinely did silkspan under monocoat on slow Rat wings.  I am now trying putting the clear Corehouse film on first, then the tissue on top.  I really like it. 

Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Film over tissue
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2014, 08:09:59 AM »
Guys,
When you put the silkspan on how many coats of dope to you apply to the silkspan before putting on the monokote? Do or have you put on a coat of something like Balsarite for film on as a last coat? Do you do this on the fuse and other surfaces or just the wing? Lastly, any idea what the weight is?

Best,        DennisT

Offline Jim Thomerson

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Re: Film over tissue
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2014, 09:09:27 AM »
I would paint the silkspan with a little Titebond in water. It would harden up the silkspan and also, with heat, stick to the monocoat.  Made a very rigid and strong covering.  I only did this on wings. 

Offline dennis lipsett

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Re: Film over tissue
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2014, 02:31:03 PM »
Guys,
When you put the silkspan on how many coats of dope to you apply to the silkspan before putting on the monokote? Do or have you put on a coat of something like Balsarite for film on as a last coat? Do you do this on the fuse and other surfaces or just the wing? Lastly, any idea what the weight is?

Best,        DennisT

Don,
I put nothing on over the open areas. even the crap that they sell as Monokote today will stick well to what passes as silkspan today. I cannot vouch that it would stick if doped as I've never done it. You don't need to have the iron at 350 to get the job done either.

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Film over tissue
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2014, 10:04:52 AM »
My latest job has lightweight Polyspan with "Microlite" park flyer weight film over it for a beautiful transparent finish. I estimate 1.25 oz. per square yard.  I'll shoot a photo and post it.  Sadly the lightweight Polyspan is hard to find, as it isn't very good by itself. But with film applied.......   ;D
« Last Edit: August 31, 2014, 04:31:01 PM by Larry Renger »
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Film over tissue
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2014, 04:29:00 PM »
BTW, there is only Balsarite around the edges to attach the Polyspan. NO DOPE!  Also note the Polyspan hinges.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Bill Burton

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Re: Film over tissue
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2014, 05:11:47 PM »
Guys,
When you put the silkspan on how many coats of dope to you apply to the silkspan before putting on the monokote? Do or have you put on a coat of something like Balsarite for film on as a last coat? Do you do this on the fuse and other surfaces or just the wing? Lastly, any idea what the weight is?

Best,        DennisT

Hi Dennis,

Several years ago, I built a Ringmaster and covered it in silk span. This was when you could get good silk span from SIG.  I doped the airframe with three coats of dope and applied the silk span wet and used thinner around the edges to adhere it to the frame.  I am talking the wing only here .  When it dried I put three coats of nitrate dope thinned 50/50.  The silk span at this point wAs really tight.  I then ironed Oracover (Ultrakote) over the silk span and it stuck just fine.  Hope this helped.

BB

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Film over tissue
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2014, 04:33:59 PM »
With polyspan, it will get tight as can be with heating and no dope. Ironing the film over it only tightens it more. YOU DON'T NEED THE WEIGHT OF DOPE! That is the whole point of this technique. A high gloss, lightweight, ultra tough finish. What elsese could you want?

I bet that if you rubbed out and waxed a film finish, it could pass as painted.  >:D

You want to suffer? Silkspan, dope, filler, silver undercoat, primer, color, top clear and rub like heck. Or spend your time practicing FLYING! Has any 20 point plane ever won the Nationals? Top 5, yes, but won?

You have to define your priorities. For anyone below the top 5 at the Nats, a film finish is ulikely to be the decider.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Film over tissue
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2014, 05:00:32 PM »
Quote
YOU DON'T NEED THE WEIGHT OF DOPE! That is the whole point of this technique. A high gloss, lightweight, ultra tough finish. What elsese could you want?

I would want a material that "holds up."

I know of no iron on material that will stand up for the duration?

Eventually, the material, falls apart.



Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Bill Burton

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Re: Film over tissue
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2014, 05:57:12 PM »
Dennis in lieu of what Larry posted, I should have told you that my original intention was to paint the Ringmaster after applying and doping the Silkspan.  At the last minute I decided I wanted to do a color scheme with the plastic film and that is when I ironed it on.  The point I was trying to make if you DO dope the tissue whether it be Silkspan or Polyspan, the plastic film will stick to it.  I have no idea how much additional weight the dope added but the plane flew very well with an OS. LA 25 on it.  Mr. Renger is right, there is no need to dope the Polyspan before you iron on the covering.

BB

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Film over tissue
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2014, 06:15:18 PM »
Perhaps (though, my experience refutes that) durability is an issue for a single surface material, but not for a properly applied composite. My Baby Super Clown is wrinkle free after a couple of years. Try the technique on a junker, let it age, then criticise! If you ain't tried it, you have no valid standing. Others have used the technique, as noted, and say it is durable.

I really get anoyed at those who post "well I don't really know, but......"  HB~>

Incidentally, iron on films are NOT a shrink film, but a stretch-on material! Applied correctly they look tight before you ever touch them with a heat gun. Get Faye Stilley's books and learn how to do it right. I did a Monokote demo for our club. One wing was pre-covered and a member was very impressed. I said "I haven't shrunk it yet!" That's how the job should look if you want it right!  y1

Learn how to do it right before saying it is no good.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Film over tissue
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2014, 06:17:41 AM »
Perhaps (though, my experience refutes that) durability is an issue for a single surface material, but not for a properly applied composite. My Baby Super Clown is wrinkle free after a couple of years. Try the technique on a junker, let it age, then criticise! If you ain't tried it, you have no valid standing. Others have used the technique, as noted, and say it is durable.

I really get anoyed at those who post "well I don't really know, but......"  HB~>

Incidentally, iron on films are NOT a shrink film, but a stretch-on material! Applied correctly they look tight before you ever touch them with a heat gun. Get Faye Stilley's books and learn how to do it right. I did a Monokote demo for our club. One wing was pre-covered and a member was very impressed. I said "I haven't shrunk it yet!" That's how the job should look if you want it right!  y1

Learn how to do it right before saying it is no good.

Larry,

I have a feeling your responce is targeted at me? is it?  n~

If so, could you please tell me where I said, "well I don't really know, but......"

I can't find any Post where that was said by anybody. Did I miss it?

Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.


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