Author Topic: Fox 35 Speed - St Louis - Feb, May & Oct 2015 (Read 19480 times)

Fred Cronenwett · « **on:** August 22, 2014, 08:49:15 PM »

Got a Fox 35 powered model? - I know who doesn't

I know the Fox 35 doesn't make you think about going fast but get ready for a new event in St Louis speed contest for 2015. this is an event where you take any model (full body or profile) that is Fox 35 powered model and fly 14 laps fast as possible.

It could be Ringmaster or any model you have that is powered with a Fox 35 and you are ready to go

I have attached the rules that John Moll has put together, here is some preliminary information on our May 2015 Speed Contest

http://lafayetteesquadrillecl.wordpress.com/lafayette-esquadrille-cl/control-line-contest-st-louis/control-line-speed-st-louis-buder-park/

Fred

Motorman · « **Reply #1 on:** August 22, 2014, 09:17:34 PM »

I take it you're not aware of the formula Fox planes that are out there?

MM

eric david conley · « **Reply #2 on:** August 22, 2014, 09:29:12 PM »

Well, I don't quite know why they are calling this a speed event unless its because it is scheduled at a speed contest. I'm thinking that is why you require solid lines and aren't allowing cable. Cable is what all of these planes are currently equipped with I would assume and I wonder how many will be in the mood to find solid .016 wire for there plane? I remember an event like this back in the mid to late 80s (formula Fox) for the Fox 35 stunt engine only you could build a plane just for the event. I built several (actually I have 3 of them on a shelf in my building room) plus bought 3 Fox 35 stunt engines to play with as the rules were very similar to the rules for this event. I made it to around 96 mph with mine while the Swan brothers down the street from me got theirs up to around 115 mph. This particular event was from someone located in the lower Great Lakes area and was flown for several years back there. I still have 1 of those engines left, the other 2 came apart in the air as the Fox stunt 35 isn't exactly cut out for this kind of use. It was a lot of fun for me though. Eric

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #3 on:** August 23, 2014, 06:09:40 AM »

I will send these comments to John who wrote the rules.

John's idea was to have an event kinda like perky but you could build any model and it has to be powered with a Fox 35 and fly fast as possible (speed). The solid lines are there so that variable does not affect the lap times.

We will check into the Formula Fox planes rules, do you have a link to those rules?

Thanks
Fred

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #4 on:** August 23, 2014, 06:16:33 AM »

I found these rules but these are really aimed at the racing community, John has allowed Hemi-heads and other alterations to the Fox 35 and you are flying against the clock for 14 laps, best time wins

Fred

http://www.nclra.org/Rules/NCLRAFoxRace.php?NCLRA=153cebb27187c434b9b154393225078b

Dennis Toth · « **Reply #5 on:** August 25, 2014, 08:16:53 PM »

Its been many years since I flew speed (with the Brown's on Staten Island) and a little 1/2A proto with Wayne Trivin. I always liked speed but it got to specialized so I took up stunt. The Fox 35 event is very interesting. From the prior posts I kinda like the idea of a minimum wing area (like 300 sq. in.). I also like keeping it as a profile with tail (although a full body cowled speed design might be a cool follow on event). I also like the stock motor and parts. I think the props could be open to all commercial available props (maybe wood props). One wheel but two would be a little easier for us old guys. No pressure, ok. Could be a fun event for the NATs.

Best, DennisT

C.T. Schaefer · « **Reply #6 on:** August 26, 2014, 08:00:27 PM »

Interesting idea. The current 'Fox Racer' is a 300 sq/in profile plane. We have been flying variations for years. Good speeds are 22-24 seconds for 7. To call that a speed event might not be too enticing. Also, the motors are required to be dead stock. I think that in order to be interesting the rules should allow for more creativity. Ie. looser engine restrictions and freed up airframe design.

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #7 on:** August 27, 2014, 04:59:10 PM »

The rules do allow for folks to modify the engine such as Hemi Heads and other mods, the only rule is that is has to be Fox 35. The Event would allow people to bring anything with a Fox 35 and fly it in a speed like event, so it could inspire some interesting designs!

The May contest we hold is a full speed contest with everything from FAI, jet, 1/2a and Perky, Perky has been the most popular event.

Fred

Motorman · « **Reply #8 on:** August 29, 2014, 02:23:08 PM »

I hope it works out but, I've seen things like this before. I predict a bunch of ringmaster type planes and one hot rod quicky rat that will spoil the show then you'll never see the sport fliers again.

MM

john e. holliday · « **Reply #9 on:** August 29, 2014, 02:54:42 PM »

Quicky Rats don't have enough wing area.

Fred Quedenfeld jr · « **Reply #10 on:** August 29, 2014, 03:33:11 PM »

Quicky Rats don't have enough wing area.
[/quote] What line of the rules call for a wing area limit???

john e. holliday · « **Reply #11 on:** August 30, 2014, 09:13:36 AM »

Go read line two. I don't think a quicky is the same as a Flite Streak, Ringmaster or SkyRay.

Motorman · « **Reply #12 on:** August 30, 2014, 11:22:11 AM »

That's just a suggestion, it doesn't mean anything until it's a rule. At the very least it's unclear.

MM

C.T. Schaefer · « **Reply #13 on:** September 04, 2014, 06:17:01 PM »

The thought of this event has gotten my interest. I am currently re-purposing an older model to fit the Fox and, if I can get it going, will report on the results. I like the standard fuel rule. That will avoid the temptation to tip the can and deplete the crankshaft population. Just remember to get some Fox appropriate fuel (25-29 castor) and publish it. The commercially available props is also good. Maybe you could even be more specific and say "only commercially made wooden or molded, not continuous strand glass or carbon fiber props". What about .015 stranded lines? TS

eric david conley · « **Reply #14 on:** September 05, 2014, 03:47:43 PM »

OK, gang here are some pictures of the "Formula Fox" planes I built back in around 1990. I found out about this class of plane from a fellow named Eric Williams from Vandalia OH. Eric then went through a divorce and moved to Eaton OH. We stayed in touch for a while but than faded away. I played with these planes for about a year along with the Swan brothers while living in Clovis CA which is near Fresno CA. The Swan brothers were about 8-10mph faster than me and had on engine failures to my 2 engine failures. On my failed engines it was the piston that broke some where around the skirt or where the piston pin was located followed by the case breaking. Notice how large the intake is after "very carefully enlarging it with a Dremel tool" paper thin at .2825. I think I also enlarged intake area of the crank shaft. Eric

Motorman · « **Reply #15 on:** September 06, 2014, 10:41:31 AM »

Why don't you remove the engine from the prop nut and install a super tiger behind it.

C.T. Schaefer · « **Reply #16 on:** September 17, 2014, 06:20:54 PM »

I had a chance to fly my newly converted, lightly used, 30 year old B team race plane today. With a bit of fussing the old Fox looks pretty good in there. I took the motor straight from my Nobler that went head first into the tarmac.

C.T. Schaefer · « **Reply #17 on:** September 17, 2014, 06:28:54 PM »

In other words, dead (or almost dead since it still runs) stock. After a couple of flights I got it to come off the ground nicely and run pretty strong for about 20 laps. Only an in air time. 20.1. I think that with some tinkering she might drop another second or 2. Looks good in the air! I don't expect to be able to travel to St. Louis but maybe someone will talk Brodak into including it in this years schedule.

Mike Greb · « **Reply #18 on:** September 18, 2014, 03:45:01 PM »

I have a fox 35 that has a K&B 40 piston and liner in it. wonder how that would work on fox 35 speed.

Motorman · « **Reply #19 on:** September 19, 2014, 09:21:28 AM »

4011?

MM

bob whitney · « **Reply #20 on:** September 20, 2014, 10:40:47 PM »

Quote from: Mike Greb on September 18, 2014, 03:45:01 PM

I have a fox 35 that has a K&B 40 piston and liner in it. wonder how that would work on fox 35 speed.

sounds like it isnt a 35 any more

C.T. Schaefer · « **Reply #21 on:** October 28, 2014, 04:47:54 PM »

I have had a chance to fly the B Team Race plane with the Fox .35. Here are the results. !0 % fuel, APC prop, .015 lines (maybe a little short) from my Foxberg. Best of 38.3 - 14 and 18.9 in the air. Sure would like to break the ton! Anybody else fussing with these? TS

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #22 on:** November 16, 2014, 12:22:27 PM »

The Lafayette Esquadrille club meet this past Thursday and we are now adding the Fox 35 speed event to the Ice-O-Lated contest this February, it also may be added to the Broken Arrow CL contest in September.

I have updated the club website and all of the contest dates are official and we are putting sanctions in for the contests.

Feb 22 will have Perky and Fox 35 speed events

May 16-17 - All speed events including Perky Speed and Fox 35 speed events

http://lafayetteesquadrillecl.wordpress.com/lafayette-esquadrille-cl/control-line-contest-st-louis/

Fred Cronenwett

Dennis Toth · « **Reply #23 on:** December 12, 2014, 03:53:54 PM »

Eric,
Love the Formula Fox. I noticed it runs a Fox muffler. I was wondering if you needed to either add some head gaskets or a very cold plug to keep it from pre-igniting and crackling? What fuel and prop do you run?

Best, DennisT

Wayne J. Buran · « **Reply #24 on:** December 12, 2014, 04:58:21 PM »

The mention of Eric Williams is interesting. Unfortunately Eric passed away some years ago. Bob Heywood was a close friend of his. Maybe Bob will chime in on this discussion. The event sounds like fun.
Thanks
Wayne

Bob Heywood · « **Reply #25 on:** December 14, 2014, 06:33:28 PM »

I don't have much to say. The late Bill Nusz put one together. I don't know what he did inside the engine but he did mod the backing plate of a Veco S2 or S3 spinner to fit the Fox crank in place of the standard prop driver. The plane seemed to go well.

Eric never built one.

Motorman · « **Reply #26 on:** December 16, 2014, 10:46:22 AM »

Speaking as someone who's modified allot of various Fox engines and had more parts failures than I can count, I think ultimately you can get enough power out of the Fox 35 to burst the cylinder off the crankcase sending a huge chunk of metal sailing (been there done that with K&B 4050).

When something lets go like that you add forward speed and centrifugal pull. Basically the part accelerates big time when it lets go. It's fun to take a piece of crap and make it go fast but at very least you should be thinking about the crank and prop assembly coming out the front which I've seen happen to stock Fox 35 stunt engines. With better crank&rod, more compression, sub piston induction, and higher revs guess what goes next (cyl).

MM

eric david conley · « **Reply #27 on:** December 16, 2014, 02:17:36 PM »

Dennis,

This is the other Eric that I think you were referring your question to. I was attempting to build and fly this class back in around 1998 when I saw an article or message by Eric Williams about the planes. I had a couple of Fox 35 stunt engines and had become sort of disenchanted with them as a stunt engine so when I saw this speed event I thought I would try my hand at it. I cant remember all of the rules but one was a stock Fox muffler, another was 10 percent fuel, exterior bell crank, at least one wheel landing gear. The engine had to be all Fox 35 stunt but you could modify the Fox parts anyway you wanted to. Not being much of an engine man and no machine shop experience I only modified the crank by enlarging the size of the induction port, opening the crank case intake port size as much as I could with out grinding through it, and carefully polishing everything to get rid of any stress marks left by my Dremel tool. I cant remember what prop I used but tried quite a few probably in the 8/6 or 7 and 9/6 or 7 size.
You could build any type of plane as long as the engine wasn't cowled in, it had to be a profile. I had flown quite a bit of Rat back in the early 60s so that was the type of plane I used. The best I ever did in speed was around 95+/- mph. The Swan brothers who lived in Clovis CA also, saw me flying my plane so they built one to and they were turning over a 100 mph which I could never reach. The engine failures that I experienced were the pistons breaking in the area of the pin which may have been caused by not enough break in time. I know I had a lot of crackling which I thought was pre-ignition and I cant remember whether I tried adding head gaskets. I think the Swans just got tired of messing with the Fox 35 and concentrated on flying stunt. Bob Swan is still flying stunt in the central valley in CA. Eric

john e. holliday · « **Reply #28 on:** December 16, 2014, 05:35:31 PM »

I often wonder how we kept our Fox .35 Stunt engine together for racing the Goldberg planes. Running 9-7 or 9-6 props as hard as we could and still make pit stops. I think the Wichita guys had the fastest planes and I never seen a failure.

Motorman · « **Reply #29 on:** December 17, 2014, 11:39:24 AM »

We're talking modified fox not foxberg. 99% of people won't take it to the limit of the rules but if you chase it long enough you'll end up with allot of broken parts for an engine that's out of production. Why get started with it.

MM

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #30 on:** January 08, 2015, 07:49:51 PM »

Well John Moll and Jason Pearson have built their models, they will be flying this year in St Louis in the Fox 35 Speed event. the rules are simple the model has to be a Fox 35 powered model (any model....not kidding), the motor can be modified but it has be a plain bearing Fox 35 engine with suction. The club will provide the fuel so no worry there. 25% castor with 10% nitro. the flying lines will be .016 solids, 60 feet long. the full rules are on the web page

John's model needs a few more items but is basically together. Jason's is ready to fly.

So if you have a model with a Fox 35 on it bring it out and have some fun. We will be running the Fox 35 event at the following events. We will also have Perky speed at these three events. Look on our website for full details

https://lafayetteesquadrillecl.wordpress.com/lafayette-esquadrille-cl/control-line-contest-st-louis/

Feb 22 - Ice-O-Lated Contest (we know it's cold, but you gotta fly!)

May 16-17 - Annual Speed Contest

Oct 18 - Old time Contest

Hope to see everyone there!

Fred

bob whitney · « **Reply #31 on:** January 09, 2015, 06:52:41 PM »

OK lets get this straight here u say it has to be a Fox Bushing 35 , is that right

C.T. Schaefer · « **Reply #32 on:** January 10, 2015, 07:03:50 AM »

The way I'm reading the published rules, it must be a Fox .35 Stunt motor with only Fox produced parts. Right?

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #33 on:** January 11, 2015, 06:58:59 AM »

There are two requirements for the Fox 35...

first it has to be Fox 35 stunt engine

It has to use Suction (no pressure is allowed for the fuel tank)

The motor has to retain the stock plain bearing

You can put on any hemi head you want, back plate, different needle valves, re-time the engine it just has to be Fox 35 with the original plain bushed bearing. So performance upgrades are allowed it just has to have the original bearing and be a Fox 35 Stunt

Hope that helps, the club will provide the fuel for everyone

Fred

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #34 on:** January 18, 2015, 07:32:31 AM »

John Moll got his Fox 35 Speed model flying yesterday! we have at least 4 models that will be flying at the May speed contest in the Fox 35 speed event...this is going to be fun!

Fred

Bill Hughes · « **Reply #35 on:** January 31, 2015, 08:20:42 AM »

I will have my new Fox .35 Racer at the Ice-O-Lated later this month. Just finished up last weekend.
Someone has to give John Moll something to shoot for

eric david conley · « **Reply #36 on:** January 31, 2015, 09:51:16 AM »

A very pretty plane, I hope it is light and will accelerate fast. Good luck, Eric.

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #37 on:** January 31, 2015, 08:09:55 PM »

The Fox 35 Speed competition is heating up, Three are built and flying....the competition will be interesting...Can't wait! This will be a fun event

I even picked up a Fox 35 Stunt for the event, but don't have a plane yet, it will be built and flying soon

Fred

jason Pearson · « **Reply #38 on:** February 14, 2015, 11:36:59 AM »

Mine is ready to go. It flys really good but the outboard wing high, may be due to the torque. I built it totally to specks of Dave Hull little tiger blown up to 26" wingspan. It flys 22 laps on a tank and balances well. Engine was little rich and not peaked out at 79MPH we will see what it will do next Sunday.