Brodak plastic covering material fail

[Scott Bauman]

I have a Brodak Cardinal ARF as my beater model.  The model is a few years old and flies quite well with zero crashes.  However, the covering material is failing.  The best way to describe it is the clear plastic has come away from the black color adhesive.  The model has always had tons of wrinkles and delamination spots.  However, recently a couple of the patches have come off inflight.  I decided to finally recover the model.  Unfortunately when I peeled the covering off of one wing nearly all of the black adhesive/color was left behind on the wood. 
The best way to describe the black material is slightly tacky very thick india ink.  New covering will not stick to the wood that has the black color.  I did try to adhere Monokote to the side of a rib and it stuck just fine.  I have tried Monokote, Nelson SoLite and more of the Brodak black.  None stick.  The black Brodak material when heat is applied to it turns the black adhesive/color to a semi liquid a keen to thick half dried india ink.

I have attached a picture of one wing panel with the covering on and the other wing with no covering.  And NO the wood is not fuel soaked.

Any ideas?  At this point the model is totalled unless I can get something to stick. 
-Scott

[Motorman]

I would try different solvents starting with lacquer thinner or acetone and try to get as much off as possible then try to sand off the rest. Paint the frame with balsarite film adhesive and see if it sticks to that.

Or maybe a heat gun to soften it and a paper towel to wipe it off.

MM

[Mark Scarborough]

try to remove the adhesive/pigment with alchohol ( no dont dump your beer on it,, rubbing alchohol),, or acetone,,, short of that you may try a coat of balsarite

[RC Storick]

I would use some type of solvent. (what ever works) Lacquer thinner,Acetone, Xylene ,Toluene, etc.. the apply sticks-it by balsa rite and then cover.

[Douglas Ames]

Monokote made some trim solvent years ago that will work, but it's so pungent (fumes) I got rid of mine.

Kinda like Berrymans Carb. cleaner. Works for it's intended purpose, but you can't stand to have it around.

[Scott Bauman]

I at first tried acetone and it just smeared it and only took a small amount off.   Much of the Black ink stuff soaked down into the wood.  Some of it actually went through the wood and is now under the sheeting.   Will take a picture of the sheeting underside  tonight.

[Randy Ryan]

I at first tried acetone and it just smeared it and only took a small amount off.   Much of the Black ink stuff soaked down into the wood.  Some of it actually went through the wood and is now under the sheeting.   Will take a picture of the sheeting underside  tonight.

You will probably not get all the pigment out but removing the adhesive is what needs to happen. I've never used Brodak's covering but have several others and lacquer has worked in all cases. It will probably take a good soaking to get the glue to liquefy and rise tot he surface for removal, but I'm pretty sure it can be done. Looks like no transpartent covering tho, only opaque because of the stains. Good luck, it'll work out.

[Phil Spillman]

In similar situations in the past I've used Zip Strip goo applied with a paint brush and removed the mess with a putty knife! Of course do this outside or at least in a well ventilated area. Place a drop cloth or news paper under the work area so as not to stain your patio or what ever! Most likely the "mess" will kill the grass as well!

[John Rist]

I have a vague memory that some one in our club removed old covering with Acetone.  It seems he talked of lots of soaked paper towels and put the whole thing in a plastic bag and let it soak.  I will contact him and see what he has done.

[Steve Riebe]

Same problem with a blue Brodak arf Cardinal.  Solvent would tend to soak the color deeper into the wood. I had some limited success using a product called goof off. I finally did get the wood clean enough for ultracote to stick but remained stained. Solid color covering made it look pretty good again.

[Roger Vizioli]

Scott,
Per our discussion, looks like others also "suggest" Balsa Rite. Good to have additional opinions.  Call me when you get home. I'll bring some Balsa Rite over and we can try it.
Roger

[Paul Smith]

The Brodak red covering on my Bi Slob is still holding OK.

I guess the pigment trapped in the wood is the intent of the product.  I have found that clear FasCal is a great sealer of resticking edges that come loose with other iron-on covering. 

In general, all iron on covering is a quick and dirty way to get trainer or sport plane into the air.  In the long term silk and dope is the answer. Maybe this project would be a good starting point.

[RknRusty]

Even though the acetone made the pigment spread throughout the wood, it doesn't mean the old glue goo did too. The wood with leftover pigment after getting the goo off might take to the new covering just fine. My go-to solvent is acetone, but if Goof Off works for you, I know that I have bought it at Lowes before. Good luck, I'd hate to see a Cardinal go to waste.

If nothing else works,you could sand 1/32" or 1/64" off each rib and put some thin cap strips on. I bet Ambroid type glue would hold those in place. Or CA and some baking soda dust. Especially if the sides of the ribs are mostly goo-free.
Rusty

[Phil Krankowski]

Iron some brown paper bag (the paint store has it in rolls if you don't have brown paper bag) then peel the paper off with or without heat (whichever way works better).  Much of the glue should come off on the paper. 
Phil

[Scott Bauman]

Roger V stopped by this evening and we did a few tests.  Whatever glue/pigment is on the black covering is best described as half dried gooy thick india ink.

We tried the following materials over the black soaked wood.  1)clear dope, 2)thinned Tite Bond, 3)Balsa Rite.  We used a fresh roll of red Monokote on the various small about 2"x2" areas with either dope, tite bond or balsa rite.  The red did not adhere to the area with clear dope over the black goo.  The red did NOT adhere to the thinned Tite Bond over the goo.  The red "DID" adhere to the area that had Balsa Rite applied over the black goo!!!!   As another test I applied some Balsa Rite over the area that had Clear Dope applied and the Monokote did adhere.

We did try a piece of the black Brodak covering and it made another mess when put on a test patch with Balsa Rite.  Roger V did the iron on of the black covering on the test patch and some of the goo actually squirted out from under the covering.

Basicly Balsa Rite seems like the way to go to get the model back in the air.  I agree plastic covering is horrible and I do not use it on anything anymore.  This particular model is a beater model that has lasted a lot longer than I anticipated.

-Scott

[Geoff Goodworth]

I had the same problem with the covering on the fin of an ARF Oriental.

I removed the adhesive and most of the colour with xylene and because it was a sheet fin, I painted it.

If you use xylene, make certain that you work in a well ventillated area and wear a mask. I didn't the first time and I could taste xylene for more than a day. I just used one of the P2 masks that I have a stock of when I finished the job and didn't have a problem.

[Scott Bauman]

As a follow up I did a wipe down with acetone and then used Balsa Rite.  I then was able to adhere some regular Econokote or Monokote to the frame.  I don't remember the brand of the covering but it is a main stream brand from Tower Hobbies or Horizon Hobbies.
-Scott