Author Topic: Spark Ignition Article (Read 2764 times)

Robert Zambelli · « **on:** August 10, 2014, 10:35:26 AM »

Hi, All.
There seems to be some developing interest in spark ignition.
In 2000, I did a fairly comprehensive article relating my experience with spark.
If anyone in interested, I can create PDFs and send them out.
I have made a few changes since 2000.
First off, I found a trick that makes it unnecessary to ever clean the plug.
Secondly, I now add some synthetic oil to the fuel.
Maybe a few more but I cannot recall.
So, anyone interested, let me know.

Bob Z.

Garf · « **Reply #1 on:** August 10, 2014, 12:35:34 PM »

Sounds like something I should have. Might help with my Madewell 49's.

philbrown36641s5@att.net

Bill Little · « **Reply #2 on:** August 10, 2014, 01:05:32 PM »

Hi Bob,

I vaguely remember the article but since I did not have an ignition engine at the time, I didn't pay as much attention as I should.

Please send me whatever you have, it will be greatly appreciated!
Thanks
Bill

Jim Kraft · « **Reply #3 on:** August 10, 2014, 01:39:53 PM »

Me too! Me too! I have tried most things and still fly glo fuel for competition as I have trouble getting the right amount of gasoline for the alloted time. My latest run for fun fuel is something the SAM guys turned me on to. It is Coleman stove fuel with 25 to 30% Super Tech 2 stroke oil from Walmart. It burns really clean and keeps the plugs clean also. It seems to run cooler than 70wt. motor oil or castor. I have no long term wear issues as I have not run it that long. It is a very low ash oil and does not cook on like castor. It does run hotter than glo fuel but that is to be expected. Can't be beat for keeping the engine and plugs clean though.

I am always interested in what others run and also know that one brand of sparker does not run like another. I run mostly Anderson Spitfires and Super Cyclones with a few Ohlsson's, Atwoods, and an Orwick 64 thrown in. When flying old time free flights on spark you can get away with alot that does not work for control line.

Sometimes nothing works. I was in Wichita yesterday to fly old time with my Box Car Chief with a Super Cyke, and it would fire right up but would then start missing and would not hold a needle setting. When I got home I checked the coil, all wiring, and ignition stuff. Turns out the points were oxidized enough that the paper I usually run through to clean them did not do the job. I had about 50 ohms thru them until I took a burnishing tool thru them. It ran fine a month ago when I flew it last.

Robert Zambelli · « **Reply #4 on:** August 10, 2014, 04:02:16 PM »

The article will appear shortly.

Bob Z.

FLOYD CARTER · « **Reply #5 on:** August 10, 2014, 04:36:58 PM »

Jim K. I thought you were running a coil amplifier. As you know, these pass very low current through the points and it is non-inductive, meaning there is no sparking at the points, so points do not get burned. Resistance at the points might only mean normal oxidation due to moisture, smog, or ?

Floyd

Jim Kraft · « **Reply #6 on:** August 10, 2014, 08:54:08 PM »

I am infact running your ignition module on the Cyke. The points were just to oxidized to let it run right. It would start and run but with a bad miss. I think even with your driver 50 ohms is a little to much and it probably went higher at times possible only shorting it completely for a much shorter time. Haven't had a chance to run it yet but that is the only thing I could find unless the coil is on the way out. I will run it tomorrow if the weather is OK. Just to hot around here with high humidity. I am running a Modelectric coil and have never had one go bad, but there is always the first time.

Last time I flew it a month ago it was running great. I need to start carrying at least an VOM meter with me, but I did not have a soldering gun either. When I went to VSC I always carried a spare ign. along with wiring and other assorted tools. They usually came in handy for others at least. I don't think I ever had a problem as long as I carried all the extra stuff. LOL

Andrew Tinsley · « **Reply #7 on:** August 11, 2014, 04:29:18 AM »

Hello Bob,
I would not mind a copy of your article. It is always good to see how others tackle spark ignition!

Thanks,

Andrew.

Randy Ryan · « **Reply #8 on:** August 11, 2014, 06:11:58 AM »

Add me to your list Bob, old dog, new tricks!

Robert Zambelli · « **Reply #9 on:** August 11, 2014, 04:11:17 PM »

Phil, Bill, Jim, Andrew, Randy - I've sent the article.
please let me know if it arrives in good order.
Bob Z.

Bill Little · « **Reply #10 on:** August 12, 2014, 08:27:29 AM »

Quote from: Robert Zambelli on August 11, 2014, 04:11:17 PM

Phil, Bill, Jim, Andrew, Randy - I've sent the article.
please let me know if it arrives in good order.
Bob Z.

Got it Bob, Thanks!

Bill

Garf · « **Reply #11 on:** August 12, 2014, 08:22:08 PM »

Came thru fine. Many thanks.

FLOYD CARTER · « **Reply #12 on:** August 12, 2014, 09:11:39 PM »

Bob Z. If you have something of general interest, why not simply post it here? That's what I did. It saves you from sending lots of individual e-mails.

F.Carter

Jim Kraft · « **Reply #13 on:** August 13, 2014, 11:48:24 AM »

Well! I finally found out why my Cyke was missing badly at Wichita. After checking everthing out I thought it was because the points were oxidized, but after cleaning them it still ran with a miss. Well! now I have to confess that between the last time I flew it and before Wichita, I was going over things checking it out when I noticed that the points were very close so I adjusted them. Seems I got them a little wide and what with the low tension spring on the Cyke's the points were floating and causing the miss. I readjusted them and now it is back to running great again. Sometimes it is just the simple things. Guess I need to start using the feeler gauge again. My lying eyes do not work as well as they use to. That's my excuse, and I'm sticking to it.

FLOYD CARTER · « **Reply #14 on:** August 13, 2014, 11:54:32 AM »

Jim./ Good that you found the problem. Sometimes it requires a second pair of eyes, or even 3 other people to see what you might have missed!

F.C.

Mike Lauerman · « **Reply #15 on:** August 13, 2014, 03:55:29 PM »

In the auto rebuild/repair biz for 50+years, my eyes could tell a 13 mm. hex nut from a 1/2" SAE at a glance. ('mileage'...)

Eyes went south, had cataract surgery, lenses installed...now with my glasses, I go for larger wrenches, as the nuts have grown!

Likewise for plug/point gaps with 'naked eye'...those were the good ol' days.

Andrew Tinsley · « **Reply #16 on:** August 14, 2014, 08:14:55 AM »

Hi there Bob,
My copy of your article came through fine. A good read and I relearn't a few tips I had forgotten and picked up some new material too.
Well worth the read if anyone is flying spark

Andrew.

Randy Ryan · « **Reply #17 on:** August 14, 2014, 12:07:06 PM »

Got mine, thanks Bob

Jim Kraft · « **Reply #18 on:** August 14, 2014, 02:38:43 PM »

Great info Bob. Lots of good stuff that we can all use. Spark ignition can be frustrating at times but also very rewarding. I have flown hundreds of spark flights and I am still learning. These old engines are just plain fascinating and when everything is right will run amazingly well. Besides, they bring back memories of Swope Park in KC when I was just a wee lad in the 40's. They left a huge impression on me.

FLOYD CARTER · « **Reply #19 on:** August 14, 2014, 02:49:33 PM »

Whenever I fly my big plane with Orwick 64, everyone stops to watch and listen! "What the heck is that?"

Many of today's flyers have never seen or heard of a spark ignition engine. To say it attracts attention is an understatement.

Floyd

Robert Zambelli · « **Reply #20 on:** August 15, 2014, 05:20:43 AM »

Hi, All.
For all who have requested copies of my article, please note that I will send them out next week. I'm having my computer serviced.
Sent from my IPad.
Bob Z.

Randy Ryan · « **Reply #21 on:** August 15, 2014, 05:59:31 AM »

I had the good fortune to have been taught by my father who also was meticulous about setting up his ignition systems. His sparkers always ran flawlessly and as Bob has mentioned, NO BOOSTERS (of course we have the advantage of superior battery chemistry, in the 30's & 40's they didn't have that, carbon/zinc was SOA). I have flown FF ignition but have yet to fly CL. I have several OK .60s (among other stuff) that need homes other then my engine cabinet and I have Viking plans so maybe this winter I'll finally do another personal first after 58 or so years playing with airplanes.

Thanks again Bob, good stuff.

$50 HORNET???!!!!! Man you must live right Bob

Randy Ryan · « **Reply #22 on:** August 15, 2014, 09:47:29 AM »

Quote from: FLOYD CARTER on August 14, 2014, 02:49:33 PM

Whenever I fly my big plane with Orwick 64, everyone stops to watch and listen! "What the heck is that?"

Many of today's flyers have never seen or heard of a spark ignition engine. To say it attracts attention is an understatement.

Floyd

I have an Orwick too Floyd, but it's so dang pretty I'm afraid to fly it!!!!! I wonder how an Edco Skydevil would work as a CL engine, its pretty too tho.

FLOYD CARTER · « **Reply #23 on:** August 15, 2014, 10:02:47 AM »

The Edco is a speed engine, like the McCoy or Hornet. You might have some success by letting it rev up, to say 15K-18K with a small prop. Your static thrust might suffer with a small prop, but you certainly could get into the air.

Floyd

Randy Ryan · « **Reply #24 on:** August 15, 2014, 10:32:12 AM »

Quote from: FLOYD CARTER on August 15, 2014, 10:02:47 AM

The Edco is a speed engine, like the McCoy or Hornet. You might have some success by letting it rev up, to say 15K-18K with a small prop. Your static thrust might suffer with a small prop, but you certainly could get into the air.

Floyd

Yeah I know Floyd, just funning, pretty tho for sure.

Jim Kraft · « **Reply #25 on:** August 16, 2014, 01:38:10 PM »

I have been flying my Box Car Chief on a 12-6 prop on the Super Cyke, and it works ok, but today I went with a 12-8 old paddle blade Top Flite, and it flew really well. Seems like these old engines like a load. It was runninng in a nice 2-4 break and pulling very hard but not to fast. I was flying on 58' .015 lines and could go longer but it was flying so well I don't think I will change anything. I do think I am going to have to go to gasoline though as my little 3-3/4 ounce tank will only fly it for about 4.8 minutes on fuel. I like to have at least 6 minutes for the old time pattern. The Cyke is quieter on the 12-8 also. I keep learning.
I forgot to mention that out of the five flights this morning the Cyke started on the frirst flip every time. Just a couple of choke flips, then a few flips with the switch off to distribute the fuel, turn on the switch and go. My Cyke does have super compression though.

Bill Little · « **Reply #26 on:** August 16, 2014, 03:37:42 PM »

Quote from: FLOYD CARTER on August 15, 2014, 10:02:47 AM

The Edco is a speed engine, like the McCoy or Hornet. You might have some success by letting it rev up, to say 15K-18K with a small prop. Your static thrust might suffer with a small prop, but you certainly could get into the air.

Floyd

Hi Floyd,

One of my earliest encounters with model airplanes was with my friend's Dad's Stuntwagon with a McCoy .60! He flew the OTS pattern at about 100mph! Man was it fun to watch!!

Bill

Robert Zambelli · « **Reply #27 on:** August 23, 2014, 06:23:48 PM »

Many people have requested copies of my article and I've sent over twenty copies.
If anyone has requested the article and not received it, please send me an e-mail and I will forward copies.

Bob Z.