Blasphemy?

[Mike Keville]

Perhaps so, since I don't even fly Speed (since the '50s), so it's really none of my business, but am wondering if we might see a return to large numbers of entries if the events returned to two lines, equal-span wings and unlimited nitro.

Just a thought....

[Bob Heywood]

What you say would be nice, but I'd have to say it's wishful thinking.

All but possibly a couple of the Speed events added to the Regulations since the mid 60's have been 2-line events. They are (or were) popular, relatively speaking, but I think the fact that they were new had more to do with that than the 2-line part. So, my point is that there are plenty of U-Control spec Speed events for someone to choose from.

I guess I don't understand why Monoline gets such a bad rap. I started flying Speed in 1967 with a McCoy 60 "C" Speed model. One  of our club members had a Ringmaster fitted with Monoline. After three flights on it I was turned loose on the McCoy. The first couple of flights were not pretty but I didn't crash. Admittedly, the people helping me were Carl China (Viper B Proto), Harry Roe, Jerry Roselle, and Jack Frye. All of these guys were nationally recognized speed fliers. But still, I had to figure it out. Frankly, having flown 200+ mph "D" models I would not want to be anywhere near one being flown with U-Control. Monoline is stronger and safer. Of course, the problem now is the availability of key components, especially the twister.

The plane. Technology only goes forward. The current planes are just faster. That's what it's all about.

The fuel. Oh, how I wish we could have nitro back. But the history of that is all caught up in a tort liability incident so that simply won't happen.

One final comment. I was looking through some model magazines from the early 50's the other day. There was a letter to William Winter where the writer was complaining that Speed was headed down the path to degradation because fanatics were cutting on their engines to gain more performance and guys with access to machine shops had some unfair advantage. And so it goes...

[Mike Keville]

What you say would be nice, but I'd have to say it's wishful thinking...

===========================================================

You're probably right, Bob.  I just remember the 'good old days' when entries were high...as opposed to today's same old half-dozen or so flying their ultra-long inboard wing creations on one wire.  Too bad, since I recall guys like Cliff Telford, Bob Violett, Leland Morton, et al, with their McCoy .60s and Dooling .61s (neither of which is in production today).

As I said, I really don't have a dog in this fight, since I don't fly Speed.  Just wish something could be done to help revive the long entry lists of the '50s.

[Bob Heywood]

So do I Mike, so do I...

Johnny Smith kept everyone on their toes with his non stop banter on the mic. The entry list was so long it was a challenge just to get a flight.

Looking at those same magazines from 1952 or so, I ran across the results from one of the Plymouth meets. There was one Al Stegens, placing in one of the Speed events as a Senior. Al didn't make it to this year's NATS because of health reasons.

I know this. We were blessed to come into this hobby when we did and were able to be a part of a really good show...

And...The Dayton Buzzin' Buzzards held their first C/L Speed Meet in August, 1947. This year's Cold Cash Speed Bash will be September 6 & 7. We've never missed a year. Join us...!

[Joey Mathison 9806]

short and sweet. the 10% nitro fuel is great for engine life. flying mono line is much easier to run around the pole than 2 line planes. and the planes are just vehicle's to carry our power plants. I flew the old style speed jobs that is what I cut my teeth with. I can set up one of my jets to where it is imposable to hit the ground with. the old style models did require you to fly the model not so much with todays models if trimmed properly. there is no saving us it is fading fast. the last of us diehards  are trying to keep it going  but it is not looking good.

[Paul Smith]

As I see it, line size keeps increasing to act as an air brake and keep speeds under 200 MPH for safety sake.  So going to two lines wouldn't change anything, but it might open the catagory to a few more people. 

I think the ultimate limiting factor is the ability to machine engines and parts from materials that are impossible to obtain for most people.  I am willing to concede this to Speed if we can keep it out of the other catagories. 

[Bob Heywood]

Paul has touched on what I believe to be the root cause for declining participation in C/L Speed.

Speed has been going for nearly 70 years and the Law of Diminishing Returns has taken its toll. Each incremental gain in performance requires an ever increasing expenditure of resources in time, talent, and treasure. Subsequently, fewer and fewer people are willing to allocate those assets in the required amounts.

Case in point. 1/2 A was very popular when the Atwood, Holland Hornet, and Cox engines were available by the millions. A new Profi costs well over $300.00. And so on...

[Joey Mathison 9806]

Bob you know that there is a small group of pilots that have been at this since we were in our teens. we flew for all you older guys at the contests and continue to do so. are there any kids coming up that can fly the d's no. so slugger, billy, glen, chris and myself that did all that big block flying got ripped off no one to fly for us in 10 years. that being said you old farts need to leave the classic speed events alone.     

[Bob Heywood]

that being said you old farts need to leave the classic speed events alone.     

Don't fret Joey, I'm not advocating any kind of change. The classic core events must be allowed to operate as they have. I think that's very important.

You, Chris, Billy, Glen, and Slugger as 2nd Generation Speed flyers are to be commended for the work you have done. What about the 3rd Generation?

I was just offering my explanation as to why things are the way they are. It's a natural occurrence.

A spec event like Sport Jet can effect the slope of the development curve but human competitive nature will seek to make improvements none the less.

[Joey Mathison 9806]

yes that is the way I feel also Bob and thanks for clearing up what I thought was a push to ban mono-line.

[Paul Smith]

CL Speed reminds me of the Indy 500, whicj I enjoyed in the 1960's.
The decade started with "the magic minute", 60 seconds for 2.5 miles, 150 MPH, being the impossible dream.
The rear engine cafs came on the scene and demolished the magic minute.  BY 1970 everybody was going 200 MPH.  Pretty soon, the Ponitac Fiero pace car broke the magic minute.

Now, Indy speeds have been capped at 225 by a ongoing rules changes.  Sure, they have to work harder go 225 every time the rules are tightened, but to the spectator, nothing new has happened in 45 years. 

Seems to me, speed and the low end of carrier have come to the same end.

              Carrier - how slow can you go?   Zero.  Heck, I can even back up if the judge gives me a wink.
              Speed - how fast can you go?     200.    But if I do they'll just fatten up the lines.

[Motorman]

Speed has become such an exotic sub culture that you have to depend on cottage industry for everything or become a cottage industry or a little bit of both in my case.

When I first got into SS I bought 3 green fiberglass prop from a guy. They were crude and made with fibers that didn't wet out but I carved them down and put in some flights 10 mph off the record. I saw other guys using a carbon fiber prop that was faster, a new design from the same guy. I talked to him and I quote " I only sell carbon props to certain guys because they're too dangerous". I tried to get 3 more fiberglass props, he sat on my money for 3 months and I finally had to stop payment on the check.

After that I learned all about props, learned trigonometry, learned mold making, befriended a different prop makzer to obtain epon 815 which is not sold to the public, developed a special milling fixture for cutting wooden prop patterns, Befriended another maker of CF tops to get the CF which was not commonly available at the time. It took years but now I make the best props in the game (that I only sell to my friends lol). And that's just props, don't get me started on chrome plating and yes, I can do chrome plating and honing in my basement.

You want to do well in speed, you need to be a captain of industry or have a very brown nose.

MM   

[john e. holliday]

Or big pockets books.

[Howard Olson]

Let me start by saying I don't fly speed, but last time I checked, my son still held 3 AMA junior records and actually beat some senior records at contests but didn't file the papers.  The reason speed is declining is a simple matter of changing priorities in the public in general.  The skills to pursue a hobby like speed are no longer common.  How many dads, let alone youngsters would have the knowledge to build a speed model or finish a prop?  Guys just don't care about stuff like that anymore.  When Erik was flying speed, he's in the Navy now and doesn't have the option, we had out of the box NovaRossi engines with no exotic aftermarket parts and props available to anyone from Glenn Lee and Steve Wilk.  He still turned in 150mph plus speeds in 21SS with a Sackett kit model.  Nothing exotic there.  Big pocketbook?  Compared to what?  The kid also played on a traveling hockey team and I can remember paying $4000+ for a set of goaltender pads when he was in high school and we were not exceptions.  How much does a video game system and big screen TV cost?  Just the games are 50 bucks a piece.  I promise you, you could start flying speed for less money.  Until there is a shift back to hands on activities in the general public, there is no pool of participants to draw from.  Full scale aviation is in the same situation.

[Mike Keville]

Well, I guess we old guys are just stuck with our memories of what model aviation used to be, prior to it falling prey to those who now run the Academy of Multirotors and ARFs.

[Motorman]

I searched for goalie pads and found a nice pair for $100 and nothing over $1800 I think you took a bath on that one.

150 mph is a good out of the box speed but, move up to open class and try to get another 10mph.

MM

[Howard Olson]

Being in the 150's would make you competitive at most local contests, maybe not at the NATS.  And I'm talking about a full set of pads not just leg pads.  This however, is not a hockey discussion board, so that's all I'm going to comment on that.  It was an example of the comparable cost of different activities.

[Paul Smith]

Just as a point of interest, if I want to buy a monoline system and try to fly something just to see if I can do it, is it even possible?

I know it's possible for families with old Stanzel stuff from the 1960's.  But what about a beginner in 2014?

[Joey Mathison 9806]

Yes you can get speed equipment. you have to do your home work to find it. ebay just had a speedmaster  sell. I will not address a 160 mph 21 sport speed because that is just not true. much like calling some of us speed flyers brown nose's that  is another tall tail. Mr Oleson son is a great pilot and did very well with std speed equipment. what was the speed for 1st place is the boring 21 sport speed event at the 2014 nats?

[Motorman]

OK then name one place where I can get a sleeve chrome plated in a timely manner. I only know of 5 guys that can do it. One is dead, one is retired, one is stone cold nuts and for the other two, kiss your parts good bye before you send them cause you'll never see them again.


MM

[Dane Martin]

that can be done at several places. we (the company i work for) have parts chromed, ID or OD. standard chrome, triple nickel and chrome, whatever you want. if the 5 gentleman you know of are control line guys, sometimes you need to look outside of the hobby to get specialized things like that. if you're willing to pay for customization, there's really no limit.

[Jim Roselle]

Just as a point of interest, if I want to buy a monoline system and try to fly something just to see if I can do it, is it even possible?

I know it's possible for families with old Stanzel stuff from the 1960's.  But what about a beginner in 2014?

I haven't tried any of the suppliers on this link but it looks like a good place to start.
http://flyinglines.org/cspeedpartsfinder.pdf