Team USA and the World Champs

[Igor]

I see Sergiy Byelko placed 15th.  I beat him once at a California contest, so I figured that I'm better than he. After watching him closely today, I have concluded that I'm not.  I have a lot of work to do to make the finals in this contest.

Belko Fliyes beter model now, than he had flown in CA.

[RandySmith]

In trying to add up the team scores, it appears that China has once again won the team title. SVK  was second. I had an issue with third. It appears there were 4 fliers from RUS, and also a junior flier. What's up with that?

It was
China
SLK
RUS

Randy

[Brett Buck]

If you want build a 1/2-A version I've got some CK-series ultra-miniatures in my junk box, gathering dust.

The whole issue of establishing a means of detecting a real event quick enough to do some good, while at the same time not having it false-alarm and screwing you out of a perfectly good official flight, is not at all trivial.

  Hence the vibration checker, and a threshold. That should be less prone to false detections.

   Another approach that could be implemented quickly - soft-mount the motor (which, unlike IC, doesn't screw up the run), then put microswitches near the armature. When it starts shaking, it hits the switch which shuts off the motor.

   Brett

[Paul Walker]

It was
China
SLK
RUS

Randy

Yes, my initial results......But.....Which 3 of the 4 did you add?

[Douglas Ames]

Hmm.  Could maybe be done.  You may need to have a remotely-mounted accelerometer in the nose, rather than using my existing setup.  "Just don't do that in the first place" does come to mind as a solution, however.

How many revolutions with a broken prop does it take to break the nose off of a typical stunt plane?

In theory this ought to be an easier problem to solve than trying to detect a broken blade fast enough to prevent disaster.  You might even be able to do it from the outside of the speed control -- but it'd be a lot easier to implement such an "unusual load detector" inside an ESC of one's own design than it would be to try to do it from the outside, particularly if you had to accommodate a range of ESCs.

Why not a practical approach like machining a shear groove in the prop shaft behind the drive washer (collet)

[Tim Wescott]

Why not a practical approach like machining a shear groove in the prop shaft behind the drive washer (collet)

Mostly, in spite of what happened to Kenny, it seems like a solution desperately in search of a problem.

But, if such a groove could be done in a manner that doesn't the whole prop & spinner assembly to fly off in flight when there was no other problem happening -- sure, why not?

[Mike Greb]

I have not seen the results, but I have heard that Carl Dodge won F2A   He had three 0 times on the first three rounds.  Talk about performing under pressure.

[RandySmith]

Yes, my initial results......But.....Which 3 of the 4 did you add?

Hi Paul

The two in the finals plus YAKOVLEV , Yevgeniy at 16th , he was the highest placing non qualifier

Randy

[Paul Walker]

Hi Paul

The two in the finals plus YAKOVLEV , Yevgeniy at 16th , he was the highest placing non qualifier

Randy

Randy,
What about Dimitry Vanyagin in 21st.
How is it they had 4 members???

Paul

[Mike Keville]

Can hardly wait for the 2016 Worlds in Australia....where I'm sure we'll see an excellent site and professional administration.

[RandySmith]

Randy,
What about Dimitry Vanyagin in 21st.
How is it they had 4 members???

Paul

Yeah ?  I saw that when I was totaling scores, Beats me, I hope there is a typo mistake somewhere.  And it could be 5 if you count the 3rd placing jr. team member

Maybe Howard or someone there can explain  it to us

Randy

[Akihiro Danjo]

Yeah ?  I saw that when I was totaling scores, Beats me, I hope there is a typo mistake somewhere.  And it could be 5 if you count the 3rd placing jr. team member

Maybe Howard or someone there can explain  it to us

Randy

I checked the entry list.
It seems that Mr Vanyagin is senior age now but takes part in the W/C as (the latest) Junior world champion. So, he must not be a RUS team member.

Aki

[Douglas Ames]

Mostly, in spite of what happened to Kenny, it seems like a solution desperately in search of a problem.

But, if such a groove could be done in a manner that doesn't the whole prop & spinner assembly to fly off in flight when there was no other problem happening -- sure, why not?

I was referring to prop strikes. Most engine accessories on full scale aircraft have such a feature on their input shafts. It prevents wiping out the accessory gearbox in event of a failure.

[PerttiMe]

I checked the entry list.
It seems that Mr Vanyagin is senior age now but takes part in the W/C as (the latest) Junior world champion. So, he must not be a RUS team member.

Aki

That makes sense: a previous champ has the right to participate, whatever else is going on.

.-.-.-.-.

Could you guys start a new technical thread about the emergency motor shutoff and wimpy props?

[Dan Bregar]

I have not seen the results, but I have heard that Carl Dodge won F2A   He had three 0 times on the first three rounds.  Talk about performing under pressure.

If I'm not mistaken, this would make the 12th time Carl has been on the US team.  May even be more than 12. And this would be the 2nd time he won it all to become the World Champ.  Way to go Carl !   

[RandySmith]

I checked the entry list.
It seems that Mr Vanyagin is senior age now but takes part in the W/C as (the latest) Junior world champion. So, he must not be a RUS team member.

Aki

Yes  thanks Aki ,  that explains the 5 flyers

regards
Randy

[Steve Fitton]

If you want build a 1/2-A version I've got some CK-series ultra-miniatures in my junk box, gathering dust.

The whole issue of establishing a means of detecting a real event quick enough to do some good, while at the same time not having it false-alarm and screwing you out of a perfectly good official flight, is not at all trivial.

Why not a trike gear like PW used not too long ago.  While not nose over proof, it would certainly be nose over resistant.  Trying to do it in the controller seems to have resulted in people not just getting screwed out of official flights, but screwed out of airplanes when the controller shuts it off directly overhead, etc.

[bob whitney]

If I'm not mistaken, this would make the 12th time Carl has been on the US team.  May even be more than 12. And this would be the 2nd time he won it all to become the World Champ.  Way to go Carl !   

 
 i think u will find that this is Carl's 3rd or 4th World championship win

[Lauri Malila]

Kenny showed me his props and to me they looked just fine. Slightly lighter and thinner than the APC's that I have seen. And when looking as Orestes's flying with similar ones, they are a lot quieter than APC's. And a slight inefficiency (compared to APC's, I mean) may even be a benefit in windy weather if you can afford to waste some power.
Kennys incident was not caused by bad propeller but a bad landing gear geometry. I saw a few of his take-offs before the incident and every one of them was a catastrophe waiting to happend in that potato field.

I don't know if it has been mentioned here yet but here is the power of choice of top 3:

-1st electric
-2nd ST.60
-3rd some 4-stroke

To me it is hard to tell which one worked best in that weather. In right hands they seemed quite equal.
But clearly the worst to handle that wind were the simpler electric setups (without the accelerometer control).

L

[Brett Buck]

Kenny showed me his props and to me they looked just fine. Slightly lighter and thinner than the APC's that I have seen. And when looking as Orestes's flying with similar ones, they are a lot quieter than APC's. And a slight inefficiency (compared to APC's, I mean) may even be a benefit in windy weather if you can afford to waste some power.
Kennys incident was not caused by bad propeller but a bad landing gear geometry. I saw a few of his take-offs before the incident and every one of them was a catastrophe waiting to happend in that potato field.

   The problem is that with an Eather or Bolly, it's almost unheard of for the blade to fly off after a prop strike. Not impossible, since it has happened on rare occasions. What triggered PAMPA to want to look at it was the high rate of failure. People have only been using them for stunt planes for maybe a year, and there have already been multiple examples of severe damage around the root causing severe or catastrophic failures.

    They look fine to me, too. Look much better than an APC for sure, and drastically stiffer. I certainly wouldn't expect them to fail easily.

     Brett

[BillLee]

 
 i think u will find that this is Carl's 3rd or 4th World championship win

I think u are wrong.   

[pmackenzie]

Can hardly wait for the 2016 Worlds in Australia....where I'm sure we'll see an excellent site and professional administration.

The picture they posted on the bulletin boards in Poland do not look encouraging.
Small field, nowhere to practise on-site and the combat circles appear to fade into the very dusty/sandy looking scrub.

The time of year (last week of May) is also a problem for most of us in the Great White North. If we are lucky we will have a couple of weeks of flyable weather prior to going.
It is possible that flights made at the W/C will be the first of the year for us.

Pat MacKenzie

[Paul Smith]

Good show. Pat!!

Four FAI teams at the same time!   F2B, F2d, F3K, and F3somthing else.

You da man!

[pmackenzie]

Good show. Pat!!

Four FAI teams at the same time!   F2B, F2d, F3K, and F3somthing else.

You da man!

F3P, indoor pattern.
I will back in Poland (Warsaw) next spring  

Flying two classes at one contest (B and D) is a lot of work. Had they been on opposite sides of the runway it would have been almost impossible.
The guys running D are nice enough to move around matches to accommodate the more fixed "B" schedule.
There are others participating in multiple classes, so they are used to it.

I probably spent more time leading up to the contest at the B site, because you have to hang around for your turn on the practise circles and if you are not there you just get skipped over.

Pat

[bob whitney]

I think u are wrong.   

could be, wouldnt be the first time

[Tania Uzunova]

Hi, guys : )
Here some video files from the last final flights; )




Greetings, Tatyana

[Igor Burger]

I watched Igor practice.  The wind was moderate--certainly not light.  He did most maneuvers normally, then did his square eights upwind.

:-))) ... yes I did and also some of them 90 degrees left and right from wing ... simply because I saw that wind can change during one flight several times on that place, that was also reason that I flew whole second flight of World cup with wind to face :-P ... so I simply wanted to parctice "what if" ... fortunately it did not happen whole WCh again :- ))

[Igor Burger]

Can somebody please convince Igor to fly with his fingers crossed? That might help our guys...  Steve

%#$&(*^%#@%&* ... probably someone did ... first fly off I did not close cowl well and it costed me "0" for disqualification :-P

[Igor Burger]

Thanks, Sparky.  I figured you guys would know before I could get back to the hotel to post the outcome. I didn't take detailed notes, but that's about the order I expected. 

Orestes mentioned to Yuri Yatsenko that he had flown 200 flights in the last month.  "Not enough," said Yuri.  "Igor has flown 2000."

No, I am not like Juri, we do not fly so much, I rather concentrate to do every one well. I did aproximately 400 this year (since april), mostly in July when I did 8 daily last weeks, you can ask Keith he flew one week with us here in Bratislava)  ... but I fly indoors in winter, so plus may be 50 ... and plus that what I did in Wloclawek, what will be aproximately 50

[Igor Burger]

Congratulations Igor.  It's so nice to see someone win (again) who has applied himself to the problem by analyzing the issue, designing a plane around his analysis, and then practicing his craft (a lot). The scores indicate it wasn't close.  I could see that in Bulgaria as well.

So nice to see you win for the right reasons.  Nothing but respect here!

Thanks Paul and also all others :- ))) ... now comes time to recover to normal life :- )))

[Bob Hunt]

Hi Igor:

Let me add my most heartfelt congratulations to those you have already received. Fantastic job by a fantastic person. Well deserved.

I certainly know what you mean about getting back to normal life. I remember back when I won my World Championships. I took off work for a full month and practiced almost all day every day. It paid off, but I never again put in that kind of effort. You seem to be able to focus and prepare better than I was able to over the bulk of my career, and the results are obvious. You are in every way a Champion!

Congrats to all the WC competitors for their great effort and results.

Bob Hunt 

[proparc]

Hi Igor:

I certainly know what you mean about getting back to normal life. I remember back when I won my World Championships.

Bob Hunt  

The old "top secret prop out of the back pocket" method. 

[Tom_Fluker]

If I'm not mistaken, this would make the 12th time Carl has been on the US team.  May even be more than 12. And this would be the 2nd time he won it all to become the World Champ.  Way to go Carl !   

It was his 16th team (we talked about it this trip) and his second World Championship.  The first was 1990 in France.    This one was amazing to see.  He was sick (fever) and still pulled it off.  The team was second.

[Trostle]

Randy,
What about Dimitry Vanyagin in 21st.
How is it they had 4 members???

Paul

A team can consist of 3 Senior pilots and 1 Junior pilot.  The Junior pilots are scheduled to fly in the same sequence as the Senior pilots.  The team rankings are based on the 3 best scores among the 3 Senior Pilots and the 1 Junior pilot.  So it is possible that the Junior Pilot's score is more important than one of the Senior pilots for team rankings.  Without going into details, this happened once with our USA team when it placed 2nd.  (Also, the team rankings are based on the placings after the qualification flights and disregard any changes in the top 15 after the finals are completed.)

This is my first post on these WC's.  There may be more.

Keith

[Trostle]

I wanted to make a separate post here to add to Paul Walker's congratulations to Igor Burger.

I watched all of Igor's flights.  There is no doubt that he was clearly the best pilot at this contest.  And his winning margin was well deserved, both at the World Cup as well as the World Championships.

Keith

[Brett Buck]

No, I am not like Juri, we do not fly so much, I rather concentrate to do every one well. I did aproximately 400 this year (since april), mostly in July when I did 8 daily last weeks, you can ask Keith he flew one week with us here in Bratislava)  ... but I fly indoors in winter, so plus may be 50 ... and plus that what I did in Wloclawek, what will be aproximately 50

    Whatever you did, it was clearly the right thing!  Well done.

    Brett

[Tim Wescott]

Yes, congratulations Igor.  Your verse may not be as scintillating as the Jive Combat Team's, but your flying certainly makes up for it.

[Keith Renecle]

Let me add my congrats to Igor as well, and add a story that many may have missed. I do know that Igor does not like me to write stuff like this but I'm going to anyway. I did indeed spend 4 days with Igor at their flying site in Bratislava. What a privilege to observe Igor and Alex at work. At the same time I was helped with an incredible amount of trimming and coaching from Igor. I was hoping to move up from my previous best of 37th place at least by 10 places. My Newtron stunter started to show some promise and I had some pretty decent flights. As Igor mentioned, he does practices regularly but with a definite purpose each time and certainly not 2000 flights!

You must also understand that I was invited to Bratislava by Igor in spite of the fact that he really needed to defend his world champs title. I really did not want to bother him or distract him from this purpose......but of course, I did. In Poland, I had my first round in wind and rain.....yes rain, they did not stop in the rain. I wear glasses and it's no fun with drops of water on the old goggles! I did not score well on the low scoring circle. Yes.....we had a low scoring circle and a high scoring circle with big differences in judging between the two, but that's another story. I was up on the high scoring circle for my second flight and it was windy and gusty wind at that. Then the unthinkable happened and my Newtron broke the rear fuselage somewhere in the 2nd outside square. When I say that I was devastated, I would say that it is an understatement......I was destroyed! I had this collection of pieces with a center fuselage piece and two broken wings. In fact when Igor came over I had already chucked a lot of it into the nearest dirt bin. He came over and said "If you want, we can fix it." I said that this would be be totally impossible, but Igor replied in more or less these words "If you say yes, then we will fix it. If you say no then that is o.k. BUT we can fix it!" I was reluctant to agree knowing that Igor and Alex were both working hard to perform to their best and I certainly did not want to stand in their way. I eventually agreed and Igor set the wheels in motion. He sourced some balsa from the local Polish club through event director Marek Dominiak That evening Igor, Alex Shrek, Jan Stano,  Svorad Sıkorčin and also help from Tania Uzunova, started on the repair. I was mostly in the way, and I remember Jan Stano giving me a shot of Vodka which Igor told me was actually, cyano activator. These guys actuall had a lot of fun during the process! You can see the pics on Tania's Face Book page at https://www.facebook.com/taniq.uzunova/posts/762089607204071?comment_id=764713133608385&offset=0&total_comments=30

Alex build a whole new nose and Igor and the other guys put many of the pieces together and made new parts where necessary. We finished up at around 01:00 and then I had to fit the electric stuff and motor. I figured out where to fit the esc, wiring and switches but could not get the motor in properly and went to bed. I was up at 05:00 without any useful sleep and then Igor was down with again at 05:30. We got it all together and I was out at the field at around 07:30. Pat McKenzie kindly let me sneak into his place at one of the practice circles and I flew the beast. It flew quite well. Not that great and nowhere near the previous trim, but good enough to get me some points. I was down at the very bottom of the pack so far. My 3rd round was at 09:15 and conditions were good, but I was very sleepy and did 4 loops either way and scored fat zero's for the round loops. I went back to our guest house for a little much needed shut-eye and then flew my last round at 15:45. This went better and with many words from Igor telling me to fly softly and to count my loops, I did a lot better and scored 1010. This pushed my place up from down at the bottom to 50th place. Not close to my target of ending in the 20's but still rather amazing. The take apart model was now all glued together, so there way no way to take it back home. The story did the rounds and Marek asked if I could leave it for their local club as a reminder of this special effort of the stunt family. This I did after all of the workers signed it. You can also see from the photos that I crossed out the name Newtron and called it "Apache" because of all the patches.

So from heartbreak to a heart-warming experience which I will never forget, I would like to publicly thank my good friend Igor and the Slovak team for their incredible job of fixing this 64 year old South African's model. I feel very humbled and will go home with these very special memories. This just adds to what others, like Keith Trostle has already said....Igor is a true world champ in every way!!

Sincerely,
Keith R

[Igor Burger]

Thanks guys, now I cannot go outside for a while with mu red cheeks :-)))

Keith, vodka is not CA activator, vodka is human activator :- )))))))))))))

But to make story correct, the repairing was Alex idea, it really did not look reparable, but he had all tools glues etc to do it, so when I saw he is prepared, I know that we can do it, and simply managed Keith to say YES (he told minimally 3 times NOT ... but I did not give up asking again :-P ) ... morning we found that human activator little overactivated Alex, so we had to fix some small details (fuselage was narrower then motor mount) but after all it worked. Fortunately the piece of fuselage with processing sticker survived, so it was legal to fly it. So moral of the story - think twice where you put processing sticker :- )))))))))

[john e. holliday]

This is what makes the model airplane family so great. 

[Dennis Moritz]

I hate electric. Congratulations Igor Burger, you must be some smart guy and very skilled. Best wishes to you.

[RC Storick]

Congratulations on your world title. Maybe he will come to the US NATS and show us how it's done.

[Will Hinton]

Congratulations on your world title. Maybe he will come to the US NATS and show us how it's done.

That would be swell, except he'd be too busy shaking hands with all of us who want to meet him to get to fly!!

[wwwarbird]

 Congrats to Igor and all the other WC participants, hope you all enjoyed the competition. Thanks also to everyone who kept us "in the loop" in the WC thread here too.

 When are our U.S. boys due back in town?

[Doug Moon]

Congrats Igor!!  Well done!! 

The story of you guys helping out Keith is awesome!!  I love stuff like that!!!!!!

I love the pic on facebook of your trophies!

[Randy Cuberly]

Igor,
It's obvious that you and your friends are incredible competitors, as well as very nice Gentlemen!

It's wonderful to have people like you guys in the Stunt Fraternity!

Congratulations for your great win in the WC and for being a genuine person as well as a great flier and builder!

I truly hope to meet you in person someday!

Randy Cuberly

[PJ Rowland]

" Maybe he will come to the US NATS and show us how it's done "

Why would he bother ? 

He simply says Send over your best 3 guys and I'l beat them, no need to come out and "prove" anything.....'

[Doug Moon]

Why would he bother ?  

Well, maybe it would be really cool to take the Walker Trophy to Europe.....  

[RC Storick]

Well, maybe it would be really cool to take the Walker Trophy to Europe.....  

It would be interesting to see with our judges if he is a maneuver or two ahead of everyone.

[Michael Palm]

It smells a bit like....jealousy here