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Author Topic: ST51 (late model) ABC sets  (Read 17140 times)

Offline Brian Gardner

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ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« on: May 14, 2014, 02:33:45 AM »
Guys, a few people have asked if I could do a batch of ST51 ABC sets.

No problem, I'd be happy to do it, but not sure what configuration I'd do it in.

Personally I found they ran best if I hemi'd out the chamber a bit and blocked the boost port.

I know I'm opening a can of worms here but what are eyerybodies thoughts?

Offline Larry Fruits

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2014, 07:50:50 AM »
Hi Brian,
 Count me in for the quantity we talked about in our earlier discussions for this engine. A round, chambered head, and blocked boost port would be fine, as we also talked about. Hope others will sign up too.

 Thanks;
    Larry
« Last Edit: May 14, 2014, 08:15:39 AM by Larry Fruits »

Offline Mike Bush

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2014, 12:20:35 PM »
Brian,
This is something that I may have an interest in if it comes about.
Mike

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2014, 01:43:24 PM »
Well, the porting is certainly open for modification, but I'd prefer a stock CL replacement sleeve and stock head. If we want to block the boost port, that's easy enough. I've always thought it might be good to partially block the boost port, but most go all or nothing. Anyway, I'd be in for one set for sure, maybe two, depending on the price.  H^^ Steve
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In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline dennis lipsett

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2014, 02:13:33 PM »
I wouldn't mind one or 2 sets.

dennis

Offline Bill Little

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2014, 02:47:30 PM »
Brian, you can count me in for at least one set.  Everything so far has been golden!

I have not run a "stock" ST G. 51 but I have run Randy Smith and Tom Lay ones and been VERY happy with them.

Thanks!
Bill
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Trying to get by

Offline Balsa Butcher

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2014, 03:28:02 PM »
I would be down for a set if they were set-up w/modified timing. Never have gotten the stock ones to work the way I like 'em to. If possible, use Randy Smith's numbers. His run great!  8)
Pete Cunha
Sacramento CA.
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Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2014, 04:44:26 AM »
I haven't had very much luck with the stock engine either. I did manage to get one running (more or less) with a hogged out head but it still isn't the best. I would be interested for sure and second the notion to maybe use Randy's numbers, should he be willing to share.

Offline Dick Pacini

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2014, 06:47:35 AM »
I would be interested.
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Offline proparc

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2014, 07:39:50 AM »
I would be interested with a set of Randy Smith's numbers. My st51 never ran good for me stock.
Milton "Proparc" Graham

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2014, 12:55:35 PM »
Well solve the problem by buying one from him and compare engines.   A gentleman many years ago bought a Tiger .46 reworked off another gentleman.  He had one brand new never touched and we as a group started comparing the two engines.   Only thing we found even after measuring and remeasuring was the engine had been deburred.   The stock engine did take longer to break in.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline Brian Gardner

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2014, 02:32:09 PM »
Well there seems to be renewed interest in these. I've contacted Randy to ask his input as suggested above. We need to come up with something that everyone will be confident to buy, and we need more numbers to justify a batch. Given the ST51 isn't as "old" as the 46 & 60 perhaps we can skip rods out of the kit to keep the price down too?

On a side note the ST46 batch is nearing completion, but all are spoken for. So those that have had their name on the waiting list should get satisfaction in January I expect.

Brian
« Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 04:50:38 PM by Brian Gardner »

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2014, 03:07:36 PM »
Tom Lay claimed to not change the timing on the ST G.51 (CL version). I don't know if he changed the head, but could check both, now that I think of it. He said he hardened and honed the liner and changed to a Bowman ring (as did Big Jim and probably everybody else), changed bearings if needed, and did the spraybar through the case revision. He also said the Chinese engines were just as good as Italian ones. I took that to mean the Chinese ones were ok....but maybe he meant that the Italian ones were also crappy? 

The ex-Dirt G.51 (reworked R/C cylinder and stock head) I sent to Tom to get a CL cylinder and the full T&L rework didn't work out too well for me. Never had any sort of ring seal and still doesn't. Interestingly, and as expected, lowering the spraybar had no effect on tank height. Last I flew it was in Edmonton in 2010. I flew my officials with a 12.25 x 3.75 APC, and it sucked in the wind, later in the day. I decided right there, that a piped engine would be a good way to go.  

Dirt said he (Dan) was changing over to a CL cylinder from the reworked R/C cylinder, because he thought he could get more "power" (torque) out of it. Logical, due to lower timing numbers. Bigger prop at lower revs. He also said that he'd previously used a lower compression head, but had changed back to stock. Later, Dan flew an Impact with his CL version G.51, and it seemed to work quite well.  Tho, I can't speak to how stock the cylinder was, either.  ??? Steve  


 
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Brian Gardner

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2014, 07:15:02 PM »
OK, if everyone that has shown interest so far is genuinely interested we now have numbers for a small batch run.

Just have to sort out details. Remember also things move slow in my world unfortunately.

Offline tom brightbill

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2014, 08:02:48 PM »
Late for the show, as usual, but sign me up for one.
Thanks
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Offline RandySmith

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2014, 01:08:06 AM »
Well there seems to be renewed interest in these. I've contacted Randy to ask his input as suggested above. We need to come up with something that everyone will be confident to buy, and we need more numbers to justify a batch. Given the ST51 isn't as "old" as the 46 & 60 perhaps we can skip rods out of the kit to keep the price down too?

On a side note the ST46 batch is nearing completion, but all are spoken for. So those that have had their name on the waiting list should get satisfaction in January I expect.

Brian

Hi Brian  Yes I can help with the numbers and sleeve  design, the ST head is just fine and really needs  nothing, except I modify it by cutting a heat dam in it. The ST rod should also be sufficient
How many are you thinking about making?
Randy

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2014, 06:45:12 AM »
Hi Brian    I will take one also.  The very first ST/46 we did is still running strong with well over 1000 runs on it.
Ed
Locust NC 40 miles from the Huntersville field

Offline Scott Richlen

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2014, 07:59:06 AM »
Brian:

What's the approximate cost?  I've got one NIB, but I'm already happy with a bunch of my other engines and am trying to cull down on my variety.  So, I got a decision to make of whether to keep it or sell it and need a little more input.

Thanks,
Scott

Offline Brian Gardner

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2014, 03:23:47 PM »
Thanks for the added interest guys and I've added you to the "list". We now have enough numbers to proceed.

Randy has agreed to help out with some of his experience, so with his help I'm sure we can come up with something great for the stunt community.

If we only do pistons & liners (possibly pins too) the cost should at an approximation come in at about $95-$100 Australian (approx. $80-$85US).

Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2014, 04:16:02 PM »
Thanks for the added interest guys and I've added you to the "list". We now have enough numbers to proceed.

Randy has agreed to help out with some of his experience, so with his help I'm sure we can come up with something great for the stunt community.

If we only do pistons & liners (possibly pins too) the cost should at an approximation come in at about $95-$100 Australian (approx. $80-$85US).

Sign me up for two..

Offline Larry Fruits

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2014, 11:57:31 PM »
If we only do pistons & liners (possibly pins too) the cost should at an approximation come in at about $95-$100 Australian (approx. $80-$85US).

Hi Brian;
 Do you plan to offer a hemi head as an option also?

 Thanks;
   Larry
 

Offline Brian Gardner

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2014, 01:52:37 AM »
I might. I'll have to track down one of the engines I did to get the volume/shape. If we do it will possibly be more like the ST46 & 60 in external shape for ease of machining.




Hi Brian;
 Do you plan to offer a hemi head as an option also?

 Thanks;
   Larry
 


Offline Larry Fruits

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2014, 07:35:07 AM »
I might. I'll have to track down one of the engines I did to get the volume/shape. If we do it will possibly be more like the ST46 & 60 in external shape for ease of machining.





 Thanks Brian.
Either way is fine with me. I was just curious. Understand about external shape.
 Thanks again.

 Larry

Offline Henk de Jong

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2014, 09:40:30 AM »
Hi Brian,
I would like one set, stock ST timing. I am very happy with the Italian G51s I have, my only mods are to decompress the motor with a ST60 head shim, and to use a custom, straight through venturi. So no blocked ports or other mods please!
Kind regards,
Henk

Offline Andrew Tinsley

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2014, 10:49:16 AM »
Hello Brian,
I was going to send you an email to see how you were going, but things cant be too bad if you are doing a run of ST 51s. I would like a set, because my late Italian 51 is the biggest load of trouble I have ever had with a stunt engine! None of the cures have worked for this recalcitrant swine and I have tried everything! The one good thing is I have a decent ring seal!
One of your ABC sets is my last chance with this damn engine!

Best Wishes,

Andrew.
BMFA Number 64862

Offline Gary Frost

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2014, 01:13:07 PM »
I would like 2 sets-if they will fit.  Not sure what late model means?  How does one tell if you have a late model version or not?

Gary Frost

Offline Brian Gardner

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2014, 01:57:15 PM »
The early ones are pretty rare and look like a cross between the G21-46 and V60 with round heads, whereas the "late" model has the big square looking head.

I would like 2 sets-if they will fit.  Not sure what late model means?  How does one tell if you have a late model version or not?

Gary Frost

Offline Luiz Ribeiro

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #27 on: December 22, 2014, 04:14:26 AM »
Brian,

I don’t know if it is too late to reserve, but I’d like to stay with two sets. Please advise me by e-mail when you have them, or before if necessary.

Thanks. Luiz

Offline Brian Gardner

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2014, 02:57:42 PM »
No problem Luiz. You are on the list. Do you want an optional hemi head?

Brian,

I don’t know if it is too late to reserve, but I’d like to stay with two sets. Please advise me by e-mail when you have them, or before if necessary.

Thanks. Luiz


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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2014, 04:13:31 PM »
   Brian,
   I'd like one also.  The ring just finally gave up in one of mine.
    John Leidle

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #30 on: December 23, 2014, 04:14:53 PM »
      Hi Randy,    can you tell me what a " Heat Dam " is?
      John

Offline Brian Gardner

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #31 on: December 24, 2014, 01:27:34 AM »
On the list John. That takes us past 30. Now just awaiting the sample engine (one I did last....10 years back) to measure up etc.




   Brian,
   I'd like one also.  The ring just finally gave up in one of mine.
    John Leidle

Offline Luiz Ribeiro

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #32 on: December 24, 2014, 01:34:59 AM »
No problem Luiz. You are on the list. Do you want an optional hemi head?


No, thanks Brian, just the two piston and sleeve sets.

Offline Dick Pacini

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #33 on: December 24, 2014, 06:31:13 AM »
I'll take one set for my NIB late model ST51.
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Offline RandySmith

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #34 on: December 24, 2014, 08:14:10 AM »
      Hi Randy,    can you tell me what a " Heat Dam " is?
      John

Hi John
I think you may have one or so of my engines, Look at the glowplug, and look at the area around the plug, it will have a ditch. or dam cut out around the plug, the aluminum removed , stops the head from dispersing some of the heat from the Glow Plug, this makes the glow plug run slightly hotter, keeping it running cleaner in maneuvers.

Randy

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #35 on: December 25, 2014, 11:13:46 PM »
  Brian, I wont need the head just the piston & liner.
   john

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #36 on: December 25, 2014, 11:15:54 PM »
    Randy, thanks for telling e this about the heat dam, I'll look into the head .. would this be a small slot cut to expose some of the plug threads?
  John

Offline Scott Richlen

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #37 on: December 26, 2014, 05:59:52 AM »
John:

Looking straight down at the top of the head, you'll see a grooved channel (a little larger in diameter than a Cheerio)  around the glow plug just about a cm deep.

Scott

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #38 on: December 26, 2014, 10:31:06 AM »
   Thank you Scott, that clears things up for me.
                      John

Offline Greg L Bahrman

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #39 on: January 01, 2015, 02:16:11 AM »
Hi Brian,
I would like 2 sets....thanks, Greg Bahrman
Greg Bahrman, AMA 312522
Simi Valley, Ca.

Offline Balsa Butcher

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #40 on: January 01, 2015, 09:10:45 PM »
Add a head to my previously requested one set. Thanks! Pete  8)
Pete Cunha
Sacramento CA.
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Offline Brian Gardner

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #41 on: January 01, 2015, 11:23:32 PM »
Greg, do you want a head too mate?


Hi Brian,
I would like 2 sets....thanks, Greg Bahrman

Offline proparc

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #42 on: January 04, 2015, 07:47:11 PM »
How do I add myself to the list?
Milton "Proparc" Graham

Offline Andrew Hathaway

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #43 on: January 04, 2015, 09:08:54 PM »
Brian seems to be on the forum fairly regularly lately, but I usually just email him directly.  If you click his name next to his last post, his email address is under his profile.

Offline Mike Bush

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #44 on: January 05, 2015, 11:00:23 AM »
Brian,
Add a head to my one ABC set
Thanks
Mike

Offline Allan Perret

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #45 on: January 06, 2015, 08:02:35 AM »
If not too late, add me to the list for one p&l set with hemi head.
Allan Perret
AMA 302406
Slidell, Louisiana

Offline John Tate

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #46 on: January 06, 2015, 08:12:06 AM »
Please add me to the list for one p&l set with hemi head.

Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #47 on: January 06, 2015, 10:48:06 AM »
Well, I'm late to the show as usual but I definitely would like a set with Randy Smith's numbers including the head.

Thanks,
Randy Cuberly
Tucson, AZ
Randy Cuberly
Tucson, AZ

Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #48 on: January 06, 2015, 11:04:49 AM »
Add one head to the two P&Ls I already committed to.
Bob

Edit, just read what Randy posted in the other thread and decided to stay with the stock heads.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2015, 01:19:26 PM by Bob Reeves »

Offline Brian Gardner

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Re: ST51 (late model) ABC sets
« Reply #49 on: January 06, 2015, 04:08:49 PM »
Mike & Milton, you have both been added to the list per your emails & messages.

Brian


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