News:



  • April 26, 2024, 03:34:17 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Bellcrank and end fittings  (Read 16018 times)

Offline Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 13739
Bellcrank and end fittings
« on: April 25, 2014, 11:10:36 PM »
Since Bob has decided not to make them out of carbon, this is how I make mine. It's essentially the same as shown here:

http://www.clstunt.com/htdocs/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=202072&mesg_id=202072&listing_type=search

Same as before, 0.025 6061 T6 face sheets, now 1/8" cross-grain balsa, epoxied. I cut/sand one aluminum face to size on the jigsaw , then glue the balsa on with slow-set epoxy. Once it is set, I glue it to the other face sheet uncut and oversize. Then cut it and sand it to match the first sheet. Then drill the holes, for the 4-40 screws at the ball link and the leadout positions, and 7/32 for the brass tube bearing. Then glue the bearing to the crank with JB-Weld. The shaft is 3/16 titanium rod. This is all to avoid significant deflection of the shaft under load, and also save some weight. If the shaft flexes too much under load, the bearing could bind. DO NOT use 1/8 music wire and the corresponding brass tube or make it any shorter, it is 1" long to preclude the bellcrank tilting from the off-center load of the bellcrank.

    The only change from before is that I now use 1/4" x 1/8" aluminum electronics standoffs instead of making my own spacers. The teardrop eyelets are 1/8" teflon-impregnated delrin, cut out on the jigsaw, sanded to final shape. I then use files to put a groove for the leadouts around the outside. I used to use a razor saw to give me a start, but a regular old triangular saw-sharpening file seems to be OK to get it started. Then follow with a needle file of the right diameter to get the groove deep enough.

   This bellcrank definitively solves the problem of what to do with the leadouts as they go through the crank. The various tube arrangements otherwise used are not  particularly good, unless you use a full-length (maybe 4") of tubing to make a complete teardrop about 2" long. This is very heavy and still can cause the leadout to fail right at the wrap. It also solves the tilt issue when the bearing wears out and creates slop that, if you use a ball link, allows play in the controls.

    Again, this is entirely done with simple tools, no precision machinery and the one precise part you can buy in handfuls for a dollar. You can make this yourself in an hour or so, once you have the materials and ignoring the glue-curing time.

    Brett

p.s. this one is for my particular leadout convergence angle, and pushrod and flap horn arrangement, adjust for your own dimensions based on the discussion in the other thread.

p.p.s. Of course, use a real hex cap screw and a nylok nut, plus a dollop of JB-Weld, to hold the screws in! This is just a mock-up.

 
« Last Edit: April 26, 2014, 12:10:23 PM by Brett Buck »

Offline Dennis Leonhardi

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1777
    • AirClassix on eBay
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2014, 11:19:44 PM »
Wow!  Great thinking, terrific explanation and photos.  Thanks!


Dennis
 :)
Think for yourself !  XXX might win the Nats, be an expert on designing, building, finishing, flying, tuning engines - but you might not wanna take tax advice from him.  Or consider his views on the climate to be fact ...

Offline Allan Perret

  • 2017
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1892
  • Proverbs
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2014, 06:39:12 AM »
What is the source for the 1/8" teflon-impregnated delrin ?
In the pic of delrin eyelet, the aluminum spacer looks like it is slightly thicker than the delrin, but they are both 1/8" items.  Did you sand face of delrin to create clearance ?
Allan Perret
AMA 302406
Slidell, Louisiana

Offline Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 13739
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2014, 11:28:19 AM »
What is the source for the 1/8" teflon-impregnated delrin ?
In the pic of delrin eyelet, the aluminum spacer looks like it is slightly thicker than the delrin, but they are both 1/8" items.  Did you sand face of delrin to create clearance ?

      McMaster-Carr:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#acetal-homopolymer-sheets/=rpfvjb

   It's actually more like 0.129", so yes, it's sanded down to about .123. It's very easy to machine and sand. Of course, it must be thinner than the standoff, so you can tighten the screw down hard without binding it up. I also have some pure teflon sheet, and if I was able to make an acceptable eyelet out of that, it would probably work. It's very soft and is too difficult to work with my caveman techniques and facilities.

     That's also where you get the titanium axle. I made one with a .020 titanium face plate, scavenged from the junk heap, too, but cutting that with my jigsaw proved painful. It saved a little bit of weight, but not nearly enough to make it worthwhile. This design was about implementing the forked ends to keep the leadouts alive, and keeping it from tilting on the shaft due to off-center load from the ball-link. Saving weight was not the goal, but even I couldn't tolerate the 3/16x 2 1/8 music wire axle, hence titanium at $14/foot. I may even go to 1/4 titanium tubing, less deflection still and lighter, too.

    The eyelets fall under their own weight, and the material is claimed to be "ultra-wear-resistant". I polish the standoff, too, so I expect that the wear will be excellent. I suppose it doesn't make much difference unless it wears all the way through. The originals show no obvious wear after maybe 1500 and 500 flights, although its a little hard to tell.

     I changed the design to be 1/8 only to accommodate the standoffs, but it works out better overall, I think. The standoffs are standard parts you can get from the electronics store. This was by far the most difficult part of the original design. I was making them by sawing and filing 3/16 thick-wall tubing. Getting the uncut end square was easy enough, the second was difficult because it also had to be exactly the right length. You can make everything else in less than an hour, it was taking me a few hours to get two acceptable spools with dozens of discards. Phil gave me a cutoff saw gadget that had the potential to make it easier but it needed a new table made to get the required accuracy. Buying them took 15 seconds!

    Brett

   

Offline Allan Perret

  • 2017
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1892
  • Proverbs
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2014, 12:37:31 PM »
McMaster Carr, I should have guessed, seems like they have everything.
 
Been admiring this bellcrank design for some time.  Ever since going to ball rod ends the bellcrank tilting has bugged me.   Decided to get the materials and make a couple for upcoming builds.  Looked at the 1/4" titanium tube axle, but it's $45/foot, so I will go with the 3/16 solid titanium.  Making and grooving the delrin eyelets seems like the toughest part of this.  But I have a couple of ideas for a pair of simple jigs to make the eyelets and then groove them.  Will post pics if I get it done and they work out OK.

On a previous build I used 1/8" titanium for both the bellcrank post and the landing gears. If I remember right it saved about 3/4oz.  Bending the titanium for the gears was easier than I thought it would be. Only slightly harder than usual music wire.  Will be using titanium for gears on future builds.
Allan Perret
AMA 302406
Slidell, Louisiana

Offline Gary Mondry

  • 22 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 212
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2014, 12:49:09 PM »
What a great description!  Do you slice the 1/8 cross grain balsa off the end of a block, or can it be bought somewhere?  Does a cutoff wheel handle the titanium okay?

Thanks,
Gary
AMA 10663

Offline Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 13739
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2014, 01:22:52 PM »

Been admiring this bellcrank design for some time.  Ever since going to ball rod ends the bellcrank tilting has bugged me.   Decided to get the materials and make a couple for upcoming builds.  Looked at the 1/4" titanium tube axle, but it's $45/foot, so I will go with the 3/16 solid titanium.  Making and grooving the delrin eyelets seems like the toughest part of this. 

     That's relatively easy, I think. Just pinch it between your fingers, and use that to center up the triangular file, and make a shallow groove. If it is a little off-center, you can work it back as you make it deeper with a needle file. It doesn't have to be perfect, all it does it keep the wire on the plastic, and it is under tension once you wrap the ends. You might even get away with no groove, since there is no force trying to push it off.


     Brett

Offline Avaiojet

  • 22 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 7468
  • Just here for the fun of it also.
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2014, 03:44:47 PM »
Brett,

Nice.

Similar to the way we did bellcranks back in the 60's.

Two bellcranks, one above the other, simple bolts, nuts and eyelets.

This setup here, for a modified Ares wing, only change was the pushrod to a ball link. I also removed the arm of the lower bellcrank.

I believe Tom Morris makes and sells something similar as a laminated bellcrank.

I've never done it that way, but has the loop through the bellcrank holes now become outdated?



Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Bill Morell

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 953
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2014, 08:50:02 PM »
I would venture to guess, due to no response from Brett, that there is no similarity.
Bill Morell
It wasn't that you could and others couldn't, its that you did and others didn't.
Vietnam 72-73
  Better to have it and not need it than it is to need it and not have it.

Offline Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 13739
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2014, 09:26:57 PM »
I would venture to guess, due to no response from Brett, that there is no similarity.

      It's possible that I was just ignoring the post, as directed.

     I know for certain that I did not invent the idea of the forked end bellcrank, just this particular implementation. Windy was making them long ago for the same reason I did, Paul Walker has been known to hog out the ends on GRP or other solid bellcranks to get the same effect.

   From what I see in the picture above, there is a conventional eyelet riding on screw threads, so I probably wouldn't recommend that. I don't care to bandy the topic back and forth, I did it the way I show, if someone wants to do something else, good luck.

     Brett

Offline Curare

  • 2014 Supporters
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 779
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2014, 09:33:43 PM »
Brett, can you elaborate on the displacement of the pushrod hole from the bearing centreline on the drawing?

Is this to induce some differential (or conversely to counteract exisitng differential)?

Greg Kowalski
AUS 36694

Offline Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 13739
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2014, 12:18:00 AM »
Brett, can you elaborate on the displacement of the pushrod hole from the bearing centreline on the drawing?

Is this to induce some differential (or conversely to counteract exisitng differential)?



   Its to compensate for the angle of the pushrod to the control horn (which is in the middle of the wing, more or less). It's about 1.5 degrees from the leadout sweep (see this thread:

http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=34859.msg354907#msg354907 )

   , and then whatever it takes to make it 90 degrees to the control horn. It's not exactly right because of 3-dimensional effects, but better than trying to use a straight crank. I will double check the travel rate before putting it all together for the last time, and there are several ways to tweak it to get it to work out right - move the bellcrank pivot, tilt the bellcrank, drill another hole in a different place, or bias control horn.


     The 1999 version had a mistake in travel rate that I somehow missed until it was fully assembled and in primer, so I had to go in, cut a hole in the side, replace the pushrod, and then bias the elevator horn radically away from 90 degrees to get everything more-or-less right. It was obviously close enough, but the 2006 airplane is absolutely even in response rate over the range of about +-30 degrees, which is more than you normally use. If it gets wonky at 40 degrees, it doesn't matter. It was much easier to trim and a dead snap to fly with minimal practice.

   As mentioned in the other thread, this is a lot more important that most of the trivia we kill our winters arguing about (like a few ounces either way, which is better, a NACA 0018 or something I drew using a girl from a mud flap as a french curve, etc).

    Brett

Offline Curare

  • 2014 Supporters
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 779
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2014, 12:47:15 AM »
Ok, thanks for that info.

It seems the more I learn about bellcranks, the more I find out I know nothing!
Greg Kowalski
AUS 36694

Jim Roselle

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2014, 06:16:57 PM »
Where do you get the aluminum spacers that go inside the teardrops?

Thanks,
Jim

Offline Allan Perret

  • 2017
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1892
  • Proverbs
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2014, 06:49:39 PM »
McMaster Carr,  I ordered some Friday and got them today.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#unthreaded-spacers/=rr5ef8

They also have the alum plate, ptfe/delrin, and titanium rod.
Allan Perret
AMA 302406
Slidell, Louisiana

Offline phil c

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2480
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2015, 08:47:37 PM »
Just wanted to say that this is the kind of result you get when a good engineer designs a solution to a problem.  It's more work than buying a nylon bellcrank, cut considering the umpteen hours is a class stunter and the fact that it may have to last 1000+ flights.  And, it can easily be made with ordinary modelling shop tools.  About the only improvement that stands out would be to get some entrepreneur to mold the leadout carriers, which would be way overkill.
phil Cartier

Offline Jim Rhoades

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 125
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2015, 07:08:52 PM »
All,

The free 3 16" titanium rod Brett used initially came from me.  I gave a few people a sample of some that I bought at a metals salvage yard.  It was originally made for surgically pinning broken bones together and has some faint cryptic writing on them designating this.  As Brett says it is way stiffer than 1/8" piano wire.  My rods are 8" long .by 3/16" dia.  I'd like to sell some of these rods for considerably less than the $14 per foot from McMaster Carr price to make a little profit and still make it a good deal for the user.  I think that $5 each would be a fair price and be enough for about 4 bellcrank assemblies.

I'll bring them to the Vintage Stunt Champs next month and the NW Regionals and hopefully to the Nats.  If you can't pick them up there yourself try and have someone do it for you.  No sense having to add shipping to a small inexpensive item.  Contact me if you have any questions.

Jim Rhoades

Offline Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 13739
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2015, 08:44:06 PM »
All,

The free 3 16" titanium rod Brett used initially came from me.  

     I had forgotten about that. I subsequently got more stock from McMaster - Carr.

    Brett
« Last Edit: February 28, 2015, 10:30:26 PM by Brett Buck »

Offline Randy Powell

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 10478
  • TreeTop Flyer
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2015, 11:09:01 AM »
I use PC board for the teardrops, but it's essentially the same. Works well.
Member in good standing of P.I.S.T
(Politically Incorrect Stunt Team)
AMA 67711
 Randy Powell

Offline Allan Perret

  • 2017
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1892
  • Proverbs
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2015, 04:34:13 PM »
I use PC board for the teardrops, but it's essentially the same. Works well.
I am building a pair of the Staris designs.  Will be making a couple of the BrettBuck Bellcranks, but with a twist.  Pushrod output arm will not be on the crank itself, but driven from a separate arm external to the wing.  This eliminates the need for cutting the long crossgrain slot in wing sheeting where pushrod normally exits the wing, and also eliminates the linearity issue of the slanted pushrod driven from a normal crank.  Output arm will be just above the top wing sheeting, inside the fuse, and at the same height as the hole in the flap horn giving a 90° relationship at both ends of BC-Flap pushrod.

For the teardrop material I got some graphite impregnated Garolite (2547K21) from McMasterCarr.  I have a neat idea for some simple tooling to make the teardrops fast and accurate.  Only requires a disc  sander.

Close to finishing the 2 fuses and will be starting on the wings and bellcranks soon.  Will post pictures and I am real anxious to see what kind of comments and feedback I get.  Been thinking about this BC thing for over a year now..
Allan Perret
AMA 302406
Slidell, Louisiana

Offline Randy Powell

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 10478
  • TreeTop Flyer
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2015, 04:54:01 PM »
Allan,

I've love to see a diagram. I can't quite picture what you are talking about.

I cut my teardrops out with a band saw then use a key mill to cut the slot. I have a jig for it.
Member in good standing of P.I.S.T
(Politically Incorrect Stunt Team)
AMA 67711
 Randy Powell

Offline Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 13739
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2015, 04:57:59 PM »
I am building a pair of the Staris designs.  Will be making a couple of the BrettBuck Bellcranks, but with a twist.  Pushrod output arm will not be on the crank itself, but driven from a separate arm external to the wing.  This eliminates the need for cutting the long crossgrain slot in wing sheeting where pushrod normally exits the wing, and also eliminates the linearity issue of the slanted pushrod driven from a normal crank.  Output arm will be just above the top wing sheeting, inside the fuse, and at the same height as the hole in the flap horn giving a 90° relationship at both ends of BC-Flap pushrod.

For the teardrop material I got some graphite impregnated Garolite (2547K21) from McMasterCarr.  I have a neat idea for some simple tooling to make the teardrops fast and accurate.  Only requires a disc  sander.

Close to finishing the 2 fuses and will be starting on the wings and bellcranks soon.  Will post pictures and I am real anxious to see what kind of comments and feedback I get.  Been thinking about this BC thing for over a year now..

 What are you using as the shaft, and how are you connecting it to the bellcrank?  My only concern is the degree of torsional compliance in the output shaft. I am pretty sure it isn't 3/16 titanium rod. Sta-Brite will not solve that problem!

  Otherwise, I see no issues and the upsides you note are intriguing. It also solves another issue I was exploring for electric - how to use ball bearings instead of a plain bearing. The bearing system is essentially turned  around, now the shaft moves freely in the wing instead of the bellcrank moving on the shaft.

  I also think you can now use a *square* shaft. It will key into the bellcrank and intermediate crank much better with less dependence on the bonds or solders holding it in torsion, and you can sleeve the shaft where it goes through the inner bearing race. Or just let the inner race ride on the "points" of the shaft.

   It doesn't remove the entire issue with 3-d geometry, but it does simplify the issue somewhat.

   Excellent idea, I might go prototype something like this in the near future.

    Brett

Offline Allan Perret

  • 2017
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1892
  • Proverbs
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2015, 05:30:12 PM »
What are you using as the shaft, and how are you connecting it to the bellcrank?  My only concern is the degree of torsional compliance in the output shaft. I am pretty sure it isn't 3/16 titanium rod. Sta-Brite will not solve that problem!

  Otherwise, I see no issues and the upsides you note are intriguing. It also solves another issue I was exploring for electric - how to use ball bearings instead of a plain bearing. The bearing system is essentially turned  around, now the shaft moves freely in the wing instead of the bellcrank moving on the shaft.

  I also think you can now use a *square* shaft. It will key into the bellcrank and intermediate crank much better with less dependence on the bonds or solders holding it in torsion, and you can sleeve the shaft where it goes through the inner bearing race. Or just let the inner race ride on the "points" of the shaft.

   It doesn't remove the entire issue with 3-d geometry, but it does simplify the issue somewhat.

   Excellent idea, I might go prototype something like this in the near future.

    Brett
I would be thrilled if you did prototype it, but my goal is to beat you or anyone else to it.  I intentionally put this idea out here, so just in case  I don't get  to it as soon as I expect to, someone else would eventually get it done.

I did consider the square shaft keyed into bellcrank & output arm to transmit the torque, but could not come up with a reasonable design considering I don't having machining capability.  The problematic part of that for me would be the support bearings with the square shaft.  Easy if you have lathe and mill but I don't and don't want my version to require those so most everyone could execute it with common hand tools like you did with your BB crank.

My plan is to use either the 3/16 solid or 1/4 tube, titanium, possibility aluminum.  To key it in the crank I will use Igor Burger (spelling?) method, his logarithmic flap horn in the MaxBee: a 2nd short pin next to main shaft with wire wraping.  Epoxy only on the wraping, no brazing or soldering anywhere.     For output arm I'm looking at the DuBro Nylon Steering Arm.  It has a brass bushing drilled 5/32", so I was going to cut one apart and see if bushing has enough meat to drill it out to fit the 3/16 shaft.  It locks onto shaft with setscrew, would put a flat on the shaft.  Output arm could be installed after the  wing is built and installed in the fuse,  and you could also have removable canopy for access.

Why do you say the 90° geometry does not take care of all the linearity ?  I thought it would.

PS:   I didn't read your whole last reply before I replied.    I skipped over this "I also think you can now use a *square* shaft. It will key into the bellcrank and intermediate crank much better with less dependence on the bonds or solders holding it in torsion, and you can sleeve the shaft where it goes through the inner bearing race. Or just let the inner race ride on the "points" of the shaft."    This sounds interesting,  something that could be done without machining.  I will think on this for a while..
« Last Edit: March 02, 2015, 08:43:13 PM by Allan Perret »
Allan Perret
AMA 302406
Slidell, Louisiana

Offline Allan Perret

  • 2017
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1892
  • Proverbs
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2015, 08:26:48 PM »
Allan,
I've love to see a diagram. I can't quite picture what you are talking about.
You talking about the teardrop tool or the bellcrank ?
Allan Perret
AMA 302406
Slidell, Louisiana

Offline Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 13739
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2015, 10:01:44 PM »

My plan is to use either the 3/16 solid or 1/4 tube, titanium, possibility aluminum.  To key it in the crank I will use Igor Burger (spelling?) method, his logarithmic flap horn in the MaxBee: a 2nd short pin next to main shaft with wire wraping.

     I first saw that about 40 years ago, and I thought Keith Trostle came up with it. W




This sounds interesting,  something that could be done without machining.  I will think on this for a while..

    Anything I do will be doable with hand tools, and a positive mental outlook. I don't think you have much to worry about me beating you to it.

   The bellcrank arm will still move from side to side while the flap horn moves up and down, so you are going to get 3-d motion with any system where the axes of rotation are not parallel. This is much closer to moving the bellcrank higher in the wing, and/or tilting it to be parallel with the pushrod at neutral.

     Brett
« Last Edit: March 02, 2015, 10:23:24 PM by Brett Buck »

Offline Allan Perret

  • 2017
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1892
  • Proverbs
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2015, 10:22:44 PM »
 
   The bellcrank arm will still move from side to side while the flap horn moves up and down, so you are going to get 3-d motion with any system where the axes of rotation are not parallel. This is much closer to moving the bellcrank higher in the wing, and/or tilting it to be parallel with the pushrod at neutral.
       Brett
I see what you mean about the 3D effect.  But the small amount of non-linearity it would still have would be symmetrical either side of neutral, right.  Would that not result in equal up and down control curves if you plotted BC rotation vs surface deflection ?
Allan Perret
AMA 302406
Slidell, Louisiana

Offline Randy Powell

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 10478
  • TreeTop Flyer
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2015, 03:11:17 PM »
Allan,

The bellcrank.

I've been securing the shaft to the bellcrank then using a bearing surface at each end for a bit. Less worry about bellcrank "wobble" and a much smoother feel.
Member in good standing of P.I.S.T
(Politically Incorrect Stunt Team)
AMA 67711
 Randy Powell

Offline Monty Summach

  • AMA Member
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 46
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2015, 07:41:40 PM »
I like this topic so I will pitch in if I may. The attached image shows the system I think we are talking about. The drive arm is above the wing sheeting. The pushrod is level with the flap horn attachment point. There are still "3D errors" but they are quite small and can be averaged out. The system as pictured rotates the flap horn 29.56 up and 29.34 down with 55 degrees of bellcrank rotation. The interesting thing is how badly it can be messed up if the bellcrank is not zeroed out when the flap horn is level. For instance, if the bellcrank is 5 degrees off of neutral when the flaps are at zero the deflections at the same 55 degrees of rotation will be 33.17 and 25.94. That is getting to be quite a significant error and is worth taking care to avoid.
Regards,

Offline Allan Perret

  • 2017
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1892
  • Proverbs
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2015, 09:35:59 PM »
I like this topic so I will pitch in if I may. The attached image shows the system I think we are talking about. The drive arm is above the wing sheeting. The pushrod is level with the flap horn attachment point. There are still "3D errors" but they are quite small and can be averaged out. The system as pictured rotates the flap horn 29.56 up and 29.34 down with 55 degrees of bellcrank rotation. The interesting thing is how badly it can be messed up if the bellcrank is not zeroed out when the flap horn is level. For instance, if the bellcrank is 5 degrees off of neutral when the flaps are at zero the deflections at the same 55 degrees of rotation will be 33.17 and 25.94. That is getting to be quite a significant error and is worth taking care to avoid.
Regards,
Thanks Monty: Glad you pitched in, now I don't have to make a hand sketch for Randy.  
Wish I had your graphic skills to do something like that.  What program are you using there ?

That is interesting about the neutral thing, but I don't see that to be a problem.  
Could use a turnbuckle set-up in flap rod to get the neutral right on.

Randy: what are you using for the shaft and bearings on yours ?

Monty: appears you have some kind of program set up to give the  degree deflections to 2 places.  
What kind of errors if any do you see at 20° control deflection up and down ?
Allan Perret
AMA 302406
Slidell, Louisiana

Offline Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 13739
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2015, 09:44:54 PM »
Thanks Monty: Glad you pitched in, now I don't have to make hand sketch for Randy.  Wish I had your graphic skills to do something like that.  What program are you using there ?

That is interesting about the neutral thing, but I don't see that to be a problem.  
Could use a turnbuckle set-up in flap rod to get the neutral right on.

  I think you still want to use a ball link on one end or the other, so it takes care of itself.

    Brett

Offline Monty Summach

  • AMA Member
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 46
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2015, 06:53:40 PM »
Hello Allan,
The linkage is modeled in SolidWorks. I did some more checking and found the following:
At 20 degrees there is more down that up by about .15 degrees. From there the error diminishes and reverses until there is .24 degrees more up than down when the flaps are at 30. It might be possible to improve this but it is really very close - especially when you consider that 1/2 turn of a 4-40 ball link (with this particular linkage geometry) will move the flap about .6 degrees.
Regards,

Offline Allan Perret

  • 2017
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1892
  • Proverbs
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2015, 07:38:23 PM »
Thanks Monty for the help.  Think I can live with the .15 degree difference. 
Started working on the teardrop pieces today, looks like my tooling idea will work out.  Today I just made some round bushings with out the teardrop part,  I have an idea about the wire wrap that may eliminate the need for the teardrop.  I made a set of 4 each from the ptfe delrin and the graphite garolite.  Will do some wraps tomorrow to see if it pans out.  If not a small mod to the tooling will add the teardrop.  May have some pics tomorrow this time.
Allan Perret
AMA 302406
Slidell, Louisiana

Offline Randy Powell

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 10478
  • TreeTop Flyer
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2015, 12:28:22 PM »
Allan,

I picked up some needle bearings at a local shop. 3/16" ID and 1/4"OD . Very slick sealed units. I was using a piece of 3/16" bronze plated steel rod I picked up at a local scrap place. I keyed the rod to the bellcrank with a drill hole and drill rod pin. Seems to work. But I like the idea of putting the actuator arm above the sheeting. Since I have a mill, I could do some machining to key an actuator arm to the rod. Neat idea.

Looks like I have some experimenting to do. 
Member in good standing of P.I.S.T
(Politically Incorrect Stunt Team)
AMA 67711
 Randy Powell

Offline Motorman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 3260
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2015, 03:14:45 PM »
Do you trust that keyway in thin aluminum to drive the control system without getting punched out? I would silver solder a flanged bushing to the rod and bolt it on or maybe make rivets.

MM

Offline Allan Perret

  • 2017
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1892
  • Proverbs
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2015, 03:47:59 PM »
Allan,
I picked up some needle bearings at a local shop. 3/16" ID and 1/4"OD . Very slick sealed units. I was using a piece of 3/16" bronze plated steel rod I picked up at a local scrap place. I keyed the rod to the bellcrank with a drill hole and drill rod pin. Seems to work. But I like the idea of putting the actuator arm above the sheeting. Since I have a mill, I could do some machining to key an actuator arm to the rod. Neat idea.
What kind of bellcrank are you talking about here, something solid ?   I am wanting  to use a BB style alum plate / balsa core sandwich, so I don't see the pin working for me.  I think the Dubro nose wheel steering arm is going to work out OK for the output drive arm.  The design challenge for me is locking bellcrank to 3/16" titanium shaft and the support bearings and their mounting in the wing.  The last of the materials I ordered will be here soon.  I am looking at plastic flange sleeve bearings (some coming from McMaster, but Howard also put me onto some high-tech versions, brand name Iglide). Tomorrow and the weekend is looking real busy for me, but I expect to have the 1st mock up by middle of next week.  Like I said earlier, I been thinking on this for over a year, its time to make it happen.
Allan Perret
AMA 302406
Slidell, Louisiana

Offline Ara Dedekian

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 492
  • Ara Dedekian
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #35 on: March 08, 2015, 07:48:05 AM »


      This topic has been a real pain in the ---!!

      As I mentioned in the earlier 'metal bellcranks' topic, I ordered a Twister wing kit with a great resolve to do just a straightforward build, get it done and off the bench. Nothing fancy. The leadout-through-tube system, maybe. But several PM's advising me against the leadout directly through 'crank setup and reported failures of the tube system weakened my resolve considerably.

     OK, so I'll try for something better, but quick! With 60 years of accumulated modeling junk I didn't want to spend more $$ on titanium or silicone impregnated materials, as breathtaking as Brett's engineering is, and just use what's within ten steps of where I'm building.

     So here's a cheap and lazy guy's version of Brett's and the others system. Still a work in progress.

     The 7/32" brass tube clears the boss on the blind nut perfectly.
     The bellcrank is threaded for the 4-40 screw and the opposite side is spot faced so the blind nut is screwed into it.
     The 'crank pivot hole will get bushed.
     May use epoxy to fill in and create a 'teardrop'.

     Ara
   

Offline Carl Cisneros

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 890
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #36 on: March 08, 2015, 03:33:26 PM »
for my kind of building materials that I have here at the house, I really like Ara's BC assembly.
I have everything on the parts board in the garage and can put one together for my NOVA Clone project.

Carl R Cisneros, Dist IV
Control Line RB

Offline Doug Moon

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2193
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #37 on: March 08, 2015, 07:50:22 PM »
Hello Ara,

I was just looking over your pics and noticed in pic 1 you should have the thick white plastic (Or nylon, not sure what those are made of) washer on what you are using as the top of your BC.  They way it is now it appears your BC could walk up and possibly off the plastic bearing.  Please check it before final installation.

If you need to suspend the BC in the center of your post to clear your fittings you can us lock nuts on top and bottom of the BC with a dab of epoxy or JB weld for that piece of mind. I used a no.6 washer between the bolt and the BC as well so it would turn easy.  The nice think about the lock nut is it will stay in place and you dont have to tighten it way down. They just need to touch on the top and bottom to keep things at the desired height.

Hope this helps.
Doug Moon
AMA 496454
Dougmoon12@yahoo.com

Offline Allan Perret

  • 2017
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1892
  • Proverbs
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #38 on: March 09, 2015, 06:27:30 AM »
Hey ARA:  Your leadout wrap job, looks like you did not bring the tag end of line back to the eyelet and make the second wrap around all three cables.  I would not trust that.    Also, while use of the blind nut is clever, it gives you an offset between the line and the bellcrank, results in a torqueing of the bc arms.  It will be minimal during flight loads but what about pull test.  Did you test this to at least 50#.  I'm guessing it will be OK but the control system is something where everything has to be bulletproof for me..
Allan Perret
AMA 302406
Slidell, Louisiana

Offline Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 13739
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #39 on: March 09, 2015, 11:13:58 AM »
     So here's a cheap and lazy guy's version of Brett's and the others system. Still a work in progress.

     The 7/32" brass tube clears the boss on the blind nut perfectly.
     The bellcrank is threaded for the 4-40 screw and the opposite side is spot faced so the blind nut is screwed into it.
     The 'crank pivot hole will get bushed.
     May use epoxy to fill in and create a 'teardrop'.

     Ara
   

    I think you are greatly overestimating the effort and "tech" level of my bellcrank. The only exotic material involved is the pivot rod. I happened to use the teflon-impregnanted delrin, but conventional delrin or nylon would be fine. In fact, you have decent supply of a perfectly good material - your nylon bellcrank. The rest of it is 20 minutes of work with completely conventional materials and techniques, if you put aside the glue-drying time.

   The only reason for the titanium is the large span from one support to the other. My pivot is supported at the ends in a *very* thick wing, and from support to support is ~2.5". Under load, a 1/8" rod (of any reasonable material) would deflect substantially. Still no problem, except for the pivot bearing. The pivot bearing is a full 1" long to ensure the bellcrank doesn't build up slop and tilt on the shelf.   So the bearing would bind up on the deflected shaft.   If your supports are only 1 3/4-2" apart, 1/8 music wire would work fine.


You need the long pivot bearing because the ball link is on top, and any load on the pushrod causes the crank to want to tilt. A conventional pivot bearing either binds up, or wears out in short order, and the crank tilts.   This has proven a fatal condition in previous systems, particularly the original circular bellcrank that Ted had made by John Schwickrath. In that case the bearing wore out, causing lots of apparent slop as the crank tilted, and caused wild hunting. Ted had just won the NATs (86) with the airplane, and he was complaining about it hunting, and I couldn't really tell from the outside. So he said, OK, you fly it. Sure enough, it hunted crazily, not just in level flight, but even in the maneuvers with about a swing and a half on the sides of a square loop! I learned two important things that day  - Ted Fancher has piloting skills most of us cannot hope to equal, and don't let your bellcrank tilt on the shaft.

    To overcome the tilting problem, you can make very large fender washers to force the bellcrank to stay in plane, or make a pivot with a very long bearing surface. I did the former a few times, but always felt it tended to bind up and got very complicated once I realized it needed to be teflon. But you just can't put on a 1" diameter 1/8" thick teflon washer because it's not stiff enough, so you have to back it up with something like an aluminum washer that looks like a ST prop washer. After prototyping that, I rejected it and used the long pivot method.  I If the crank is delrin, you also have to make it very thick to keep it from deflecting up and down. That's really heavy so you need to put in a bunch of lightening holes (see below).

   The other problem was there was no good way to connect the pivot tube to the delrin bellcrank. I force-fit it and then used soldered washers but it quickly broke loose, and then pivoted between the bearing and the bellcrank, defeating the effect. So I needed something I could glue or solder to reliably. Hence the aluminum facing sheets. I sat down with this experience, and knew I wanted to get rid of all this absurdly heavy hardware. I weighed a bunch of stuff and found that the hardware in the wing - bellcrank, leadouts, leadout protection, flap horn, etc, was about the same weight as the rest of the structure. I had long realize that the "leadout tube" was heavy and also highly prone to failure, depending on how you did it. Two of Ted's airplanes had either failed, or was found to be down to a few strands, using the "partial teardrop" method. The "full teardrop" was better but apallingly heavy. Of course solid leadouts were completely out of the question, both due to the difficulty handling the airplane and because those, too, had to be grossly oversized to (maybe) stay together at the end fitting. They are notorious for abrupt failures.

   So I finally figured out a way to do mine, and I assure you, it was just with stuff I had lying around, aside from the titanium rod (which I got from Jim Rhodes initially, and later got more from McMaster-Carr (which you can get in a few days and $20 for 18"  = 8 or so conventional airplanes)). I had planned to use 3/16 music wire until Jim offered me the titanium at the NWR one year. The facing of the bellcrank was also originally supposed to be titanium, too, but all I could lay my hands on in the 20 minutes of scrounging I did was too thick. 6061 T6 is fine for that, and much easier to cut (on a jigsaw).

   I am a bit concerned with yours. It's a clever use of conventional materials, but with the leadouts below the plane of the bellcrank, the line tension is cause the bellcrank to tilt and probably wear out the bearing, and for almost certain, bind up under load until it wears sufficiently. Same with the pushrod loads on the ball link. For sure, test it with about 10 lbs of load on the leadouts and see what happens to the arms, and see if it binds.

   I like the crankshaft version in the parent post because is solves the tilt problem even better than mine, and potentially, with less friction at the pivot, since roller bearings or some small-surface-area plastic sleeve bearing can be used. I was planning on changing my sleeve bearing to two full-complement ball-bearings for electric (since the control friction is so much more critical), but this seems lighter and less tilt load on the bearings. I don't know if I would put the crank at the end of the shaft because now there is another piece of wire in torsion, adding flex. I would be inclined to let the entire shaft move but still put the pushrod on the bellcrank.

     Brett


   

   

Offline Randy Powell

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 10478
  • TreeTop Flyer
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #40 on: March 09, 2015, 11:17:52 AM »
Allan,

I'm using a carbon fiber bellcrank I make myself. Seems to work pretty well.
Member in good standing of P.I.S.T
(Politically Incorrect Stunt Team)
AMA 67711
 Randy Powell

Offline Allan Perret

  • 2017
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1892
  • Proverbs
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #41 on: March 09, 2015, 02:59:07 PM »
     I was planning on changing my sleeve bearing to two full-complement ball-bearings for electric (since the control friction is so much more critical), but this seems lighter and less tilt load on the bearings. I don't know if I would put the crank at the end of the shaft because now there is another piece of wire in torsion, adding flex. I would be inclined to let the entire shaft move but still put the pushrod on the bellcrank.
  
Brett:  Why is control friction more critical with electric ?
Allan Perret
AMA 302406
Slidell, Louisiana

Offline Allan Perret

  • 2017
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1892
  • Proverbs
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #42 on: March 09, 2015, 03:01:27 PM »
Brett:  Why is control friction more critical with electric ?
Is your c/f crank solid or a lamination.  Any pictures ?
If it is solid, what is the source of your c/f material ?

My bad, this question was suppose to be for Randy about his c/f cranks.  I clicked on the wrong "Quote" button..
Allan Perret
AMA 302406
Slidell, Louisiana

Offline Randy Powell

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 10478
  • TreeTop Flyer
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #43 on: March 09, 2015, 03:19:57 PM »
Allen,

I use carbon tow and some heavy carbon cloth along with West Systems epoxy. I machined a plug from aluminum then made a mold mostly out of a prototyping compound I got from Tap Plastics. The bellcrank is about 3/8" thick with the horseshoe ends and machined down in the center. The whole unit weighs about a 1/2oz with teardrop ends. Not really hard to make, though machining the plug took the most time.

Edited for spelling.   :P
« Last Edit: March 10, 2015, 09:34:04 AM by Randy Powell »
Member in good standing of P.I.S.T
(Politically Incorrect Stunt Team)
AMA 67711
 Randy Powell

Offline Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 13739
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #44 on: March 09, 2015, 03:27:46 PM »
Brett:  Why is control friction more critical with electric ?

  Lack of vibration to break it free from stiction. That's why they have a much greater tendency to hunt.

   Brett

Offline Allan Perret

  • 2017
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1892
  • Proverbs
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #45 on: March 09, 2015, 06:09:34 PM »
Allen,

I use carbon toe and some heavy carbon cloth along with West Systems epoxy. I machined a plug from aluminum then made a mold mostly out of a prototyping compound I got from Tap Plastics. The bellcrank is about 3/8" thick with the horseshoe ends and machined down in the center. The whole unit weighs about a 1/2oz with teardrop ends. Not really hard to make, though machining the plug took the most time.
Sounds like you have a winner there.  You should sell them..
Allan Perret
AMA 302406
Slidell, Louisiana

Offline Randy Powell

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 10478
  • TreeTop Flyer
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #46 on: March 10, 2015, 09:35:03 AM »
>>You should sell them..<<

But that wouldn't be fun.   ;D
Member in good standing of P.I.S.T
(Politically Incorrect Stunt Team)
AMA 67711
 Randy Powell

Offline Motorman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 3260
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #47 on: March 11, 2015, 12:03:50 PM »
Looking at Bretts Infinity bellcrank in post #39, this is how I've been doing my lead outs, with the cable through a horse shoe of brass tubing. Are you saying this system will fail somehow, where does it break? Are the plastic tear drops just a different way of doing the same thing? Help me see the difference. Thanks

MM

Offline Randy Cuberly

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 3674
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #48 on: March 11, 2015, 03:13:32 PM »
Looking at Bretts Infinity bellcrank in post #39, this is how I've been doing my lead outs, with the cable through a horse shoe of brass tubing. Are you saying this system will fail somehow, where does it break? Are the plastic tear drops just a different way of doing the same thing? Help me see the difference. Thanks

MM

I've been using the horseshoe of brass tubing through a phenolic bellcrank for more than 30 years.  Some of those airplanes had well over 2000 flights on them with ST 60s vibrating in the nose and never had a failure.

I do suspect, however that Brett's system has significantly less friction and stiction.  Also i would not use the brass tubing through an aluminum bellcrank, the aluminum will wear fairly rapidly.  Bretts system is probably far superior in terms of friction and wear with aluminum bellcranks.

Randy Cuberly
Randy Cuberly
Tucson, AZ

Offline Ara Dedekian

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 492
  • Ara Dedekian
Re: Bellcrank and end fittings
« Reply #49 on: March 15, 2015, 12:18:03 PM »


        Here's where I am. I took Aviojet's version, since it's been around since the 1960's and utilizes off-the-shelf stuff, and modified it based on Brett's reply #39, and advice I got from PMs and the replies on this topic.

        The standoffs-formerly-known-as-4-40 blind-nuts were screwed tight against the top bellcrank with the leadout bushings, acting as sleeve bearings, rotating about the standoff boss. There's a .004"-.005" clearance between the K&S 7/32" brass tube and the boss. The bottom bellcrank is only along for the the ride and provides lateral symmetry to the assembly.

        OK, so I got caught by all of you on the single wrapping of the ends. I'm trying for a lower profile wrap. It's a 5/8" long wrap using .020" wire with a 90 degree bend on the end which is faired and encased in epoxy and cyano. The loop end is the same. EACH leadout, assembled on the bellcrank, was pulled to 48.5 lbs. My limited skills in arithmetic tell me that is the equivalent of a 97# pulltest? The test was outside of the wing structure.

         What remains unresolved is the tilting of the bellcrank by the ball link as Brett discussed. But this plane will be lucky to see 100 flights in it's, or my lifetime (too many other interests, I feel fine) so I'll take that issue on if my Twin Pathfinder ever gets built.

         It seems, after reading all the replies, that eventual failures of the tube system isn't a given. It's on how they're made that determines their longevity. We need for Randy to give us a how-to on his system.

      Ara

             


Advertise Here
Tags:
 


Advertise Here