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Author Topic: LHS Frustration  (Read 4805 times)

Offline Tom Niebuhr

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LHS Frustration
« on: April 22, 2014, 09:43:45 AM »
We are lucky in the Dallas area to have Mike's Hobby Shop that has almost anything that you want.

The problem for me is that it is a 100 mile round trip.

There is a "RC Hobby Shop" that I pass every day going home from work.

 I tried to get some thick CA. They have had none on the shelf for almost 3 weeks. When I pointed that out to them the answer was "Oh, I guess I will have to order some".

I tried to get some Robart 1/8" pin hinges. Again, "Oh, I guess I will have to order some". That was 2 weeks ago.

Checking almost everyday I was asked "You wanted 3/16" pin hinges, right?" Yesterday I stopped by at 4:30 in the afternoon. "I'll have to check to see if it came in today." "You wanted 3/16" pin hinges, right?"  Imagine being there all day and not even knowing what they received that morning!!!

Meanwhile they are there all day playing with their expensive RC Toys!  They wouldn't know what to do with a sheet of balsa you handed it to them.

Today I will make the 100 mi round trip to Mike's Hobby shop.

How many of you share this type of frustration?



 
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: LHS Frustration
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2014, 09:48:48 AM »
Must be related to the people of the hobby shop I go to hoping they have what I need.    As far as balsa when I have enough $$$ I order on line.  But Hobby Lobby has had some very good balsa every time I went in there.
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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: LHS Frustration
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2014, 09:55:28 AM »
100 miles is a hike.

You have to assume the liability for that drive and the cost.

Why not just ask them to ship?
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Re: LHS Frustration
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2014, 10:04:51 AM »
I am shopping almost totally online and have it mailed to my house. I am trying to get advertisers on here that have the products we use. When you do order from them be sure to tell them you saw them here. Robart,Zap etc..
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: LHS Frustration
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2014, 10:24:48 AM »
When they go out of business, it'll be because of "that @#$% internet", not because they just won't pay attention.

I'm lucky that my LHS, Coyote Hobby is happy to order anything in the Tower catalog for me.  I get it for the Tower retail price but no shipping, they get me in there drooling over their eye candy and pumping them as a business.  Most of the staff there is attentive and on the ball, which is a miracle considering the margins that you can make in a store-front operation.

They even have mahogany planks balsa.
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: LHS Frustration
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2014, 10:28:46 AM »

 My nearest LHS is just over 100 miles away, one way. At least they do always have a good inventory of building supplies, and a pretty decent wood selection.
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Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: LHS Frustration
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2014, 10:29:39 AM »
I was hoping in this case to have the hinges when I needed them. I had a few days, but now I am out of time. In many cases shipping can cost as much or more than the product.

A well stocked Hobby Shop will usually have other items there that you would buy when you see them. These are not always from the same source.

The point of starting this thread, however, was not to talk about one item. The point is that the local "RC TOY STORE" no longer has or cares to have the knowledge to supply a true modeler. It is a sign of the times that is hard for us to digest.

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Offline Duke.Johnson

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Re: LHS Frustration
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2014, 10:35:25 AM »
I say sopport your LHS,  I hate shopping online.  I'd much rather buy even my Tower Hobbies stuff from the LHS. I get the same pricing or better.  And I either pay tax from the LHS or shipping online.

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Re: LHS Frustration
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2014, 11:09:08 AM »
I was hoping in this case to have the hinges when I needed them. I had a few days, but now I am out of time. In many cases shipping can cost as much or more than the product.

A well stocked Hobby Shop will usually have other items there that you would buy when you see them. These are not always from the same source.

The point of starting this thread, however, was not to talk about one item. The point is that the local "RC TOY STORE" no longer has or cares to have the knowledge to supply a true modeler. It is a sign of the times that is hard for us to digest.

I agree 100% our LHS has nothing to build with and They use to be the best HS in SL but sense Art Sr. died and Jr. took over they would rather sell beads.
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: LHS Frustration
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2014, 12:11:28 PM »
The point of starting this thread, however, was not to talk about one item. The point is that the local "RC TOY STORE" no longer has or cares to have the knowledge to supply a true modeler. It is a sign of the times that is hard for us to digest.

Sad but true.  My LHS is, indeed, an "RC toy store" -- that's what they need to be to survive.  Their program of ordering what you want from Tower is more because the owner is a committed modeler than because it brings $$ in the door, and I'm thankful every time that I walk in there that he's willing to do that.
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Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: LHS Frustration
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2014, 12:21:17 PM »
Sparky,
As you know I new Art Sr. well. The old STL Yellow Jackets used to meet in his Mom & Dad's basement. Shirley brought in the 'beads" before I left STL.  I never saw Art Jr. near a model of any type.

Sadly this is another case of not having any idea what to do with a piece of balsa.

We can just be grateful for and support the few true Hobby Shops that are left.
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Offline Bill Morell

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Re: LHS Frustration
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2014, 04:28:27 PM »
How many times have we had this same discussion? At least 20 times. You can't blame the LHS for not having what you want. They stock what is selling because that is how they make their living. 1 bottle of thick CA or 1 package of pin hinges doesn't get it done. Yes it would sell to you but you are only 1 guy, maybe 2 that wants that product. Shopping on line is by far more practical and in the long run cheaper. Most places offer free shipping if you spend enough and with our needs that isn't hard to do. The "mom and pop" hobby shop is gone. For the most part it lives on in our memory.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2014, 04:46:13 AM by Bill Morell »
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Offline George Grossardt

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Re: LHS Frustration
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2014, 05:08:47 PM »
I, like most of you, have mostly given up on our LHS. It's a Hobbytown.  Nice enough folks but they only have the basics I use.  I am pretty sure they don't have a clue what control line or free flight models are.  I order almost everything online now - just the way it is.

I think we all would love to go to a well stocked LHS with knowledgeable sales folks but there just aren't very many of us that like to do the model airplane thing anymore.  Times are different now.

I am an avid cyclist.  This same discussion comes up about the LBS.  They have many of the same issues that LHS do.  The big difference is no one knows how to work on their bike so they take it to the LBS for every sort of repair.  The LBS makes a killing on repairs but thin margins on the bikes and accessories.  When you add everything up, the folks working/owning a LBS or LHS just don't make a lot of money.  That's why there are several successful mail order businesses - low overhead and lots of throughput. I wish it were different but it's not.


Offline Mike Keville

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Re: LHS Frustration
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2014, 05:12:10 PM »
How many times have we had this same discussion? . . .
======================================================
Too many, of course.  It's easy to place the blame on the Internet, but the fact is hardly anyone BUILDS anymore.  For the most part, today's so-called 'modelers' are attracted to electric-powered, imported foam RC toys.  Notwithstanding our die-hard CL minority, plus a few old-time Free Flighters, there is absolutely no incentive for anyone to own-and-operate what we once knew as a hobby shop.
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Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: LHS Frustration
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2014, 05:46:39 PM »
How many times have we had this same discussion? At least 20 times. You can't blame the LHS for not having what you want. They stock what is selling because that is how they make their living. 1 bottle of thick CA or 1 package of pin hinges doesn't get it done. Yes it would sell to you but you are only 1 guy, maybe 2 that wants that product. Shopping on line is by far more practicle and in the long run cheaper. Most places offer free shipping if you spend enough and with our needs that isn't hard to do. The "mom and pop" hobby shop is gone. For the most part it lives on in our memory.

Bill, you are dead right.

I spent many years in accounting and worked with clients ranging from the mom & pop businesses to large corporations.  Virtually every time I go into a hobby shop now, I tell them I would hate to have the task of managing their inventory.

Many of us here were probably building & flying in the '50s.  Think about it: if your LHS carried Fox, K&B, Johnson and McCoy engines, plus glow plugs and the common needle valve assemblies, you were all set!  Today: which import do you want?  Nitro, gas or electric?  What's a "speed control"?  What, you want a jet engine with a throttle!?!  How many different brands of simple 5% nitro fuel are available now versus then?

Sixty years have passed ... truth is, we will never be happy with what our LHS carries now.  Our hobby has become much more complicated, more "sophisticated" if you will.  I've resigned myself to that, and find most of my needs on the internet.  Cost of gas for this shopping is $0.  Time spent: very little.  Almost anything we think we need is available.

We may as well accept the changes - good and/or bad - and move on.  All in all, I'm really enjoying the availability of so many "goodies" unheard of back when ...


Dennis
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Offline Louis Rankin

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Re: LHS Frustration
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2014, 08:07:19 PM »
Our local hobby shop is a joke and is run by a jacka$$.  It has been more than 7 years since they have earned any income from my wallet.  Last time I was there I asked to borrow a pen form the owner's wife to write down some info from the bulletin board.  The UPS man came in with a delivery that she needed to sign for.  Thinking I had left the shop with her pen she exclaimed, "Shi* Head left with my pen".  I retorted, "Shi* Head is still here and you will get your pen back in just a second".  No oops, no I'm sorry, and no excuse me from the smoking hag.  Just a scowl from her tobacco stained wrinkled lips.

Tower Hobbies gets some of my money for building supplies.  Our polite and accommodating C/L cottage industry vendors get some of my money for C/L supplies .  I buy mixing supplies and mix mine and my buddies fuel.  Hobby King gets my money for batteries and chargers.  So, I say who the he** needs local shops when there are better and more accommodating sources for our supplies just a phone call or mouse click away?

I love going through the old hobby shop at the AMA museum.  It brings back special memories that make me feel like a 12 year old boy again.  That type of shop is gone forever.
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Offline 55chevr

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Re: LHS Frustration
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2014, 08:58:49 PM »
This is often discussed but little understood.  The LHS is no longer a viable business as a result of a number of factors.  Most directly the internet.  The big internet distributors control pricing through quantity purchase and inventory turnover.  The can sell on a low margin.  The LHS doesn't enjoy the customer base and needs a higher profit margin.  Therefore cannot be competitively priced.  We buy from the "Towers" because they have inventory, pricing and right now shipping.  In NY there is 8.375% sales tax which is often more then the cost of shipping.  This was a long time coming.  I recall back in the '80-s hobbyists buying $3.00 worth of hardware in the LHS and radios / kits / engines from Tower.  No business could sustain themselves on just small items and the demise started.  This downward spiral also had its effect on the manufacturers. Using Sig for an example.  They  sell store stock to distributors and retailers that would go on a shelf and sell or sit in inventory.  Thousands of kits moved this way and never sold retail. That is what often turns up today on Ebay as NIB.  Once Sig sold it they had profit. Same deal with Fox. The LHS network collapsed. The LHS carried the burden of dead inventory.  This isn't a problem for the "Towers".  They can mark down the dead stuff and dump it for a loss to replace with new inventory. They also use advanced sale scheme "back order".  The LHS couldn't afford to do this. The latest rage of ARF-s made in China is an extension of the issue.  A Brodak Smoothie kit sells for $121 and a Brodak Smoothie ARF is priced at $127.   $6.00 difference.  They probably net more on the ARF.   Not sure if anyone comprehends the economics of this but the situation isn't going to reverse.
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Offline David Russum

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Re: LHS Frustration
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2014, 10:51:32 PM »
Which hobby shop is it, Tom?  The one at Parker and Central?  There is a new Hobby Town USA near there, for the quick emergency supplies...
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Offline Dennis Moritz

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Re: LHS Frustration
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2014, 03:18:54 AM »
LHS can't compete with mail order. Not simply a matter of price. They can't stock competitive inventory. Penn Valley in Lansdale PA recently closed. Sad. Supported CL and builders. An old time hobby shop. Go in and smell the balsa. Gave me a shot of youth every time. Amazing what was available off the shelves or in the back. CL kits. CL engines. Rubber powered kits. Seemed like a hundred. Good balsa. Ambroid. Fuel tanks. So on. Gene, the owner/proprietor knew a great deal about our hobby. Always willing to order what was not stocked. She passed soon after the closing. Very sad. Philly Flyers all miss her and her dedicated shop.

Offline Bill Little

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Re: LHS Frustration
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2014, 05:42:46 AM »
Hi Dennis,

Since Penn Valley went to ebay after they "closed", do you know if they are just selling out the inventory or are they getting new inventory?  I see 50+ year old items for sale there often.

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Offline Dennis Moritz

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Re: LHS Frustration
« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2014, 07:51:45 AM »
Bill does ebay and has continued to do so after the recent death of his wife. Yes. Old inventory plus kits Penn Valley manufactures. Mostly rubber power classics. The Dolphin CL model is a new manufacture made by PV. Bill often purchases estate sales. There was always talk of warehouses full of stuff. When PV was open interesting items would regularly appear. New old stock. Classic CL engines. Classic kits. Even a 1930s pneumatic motor plus seamless brass air tank that had Dan's attention. A classic model train inventory and new/old stock plastic model kits are also part of the mix. 

Offline Dale Hymanyk

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Re: LHS Frustration
« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2014, 01:28:18 PM »
I sure can understand the dilemma of supporting a local business versus ordering online. It's about a 100 mile drive to my LHS too. Interestingly when I order online I order from the same company's online warehouse, so I don't think I'm shooting myself in the foot there. However if they don't have what I need at a fair price I'll order elsewhere.  :)

Offline Vincent Judd

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Re: LHS Frustration
« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2014, 03:00:15 PM »
LHS can't compete with mail order. Not simply a matter of price. They can't stock competitive inventory. Penn Valley in Lansdale PA recently closed. Sad. Supported CL and builders. An old time hobby shop. Go in and smell the balsa. Gave me a shot of youth every time. Amazing what was available off the shelves or in the back. CL kits. CL engines. Rubber powered kits. Seemed like a hundred. Good balsa. Ambroid. Fuel tanks. So on. Gene, the owner/proprietor knew a great deal about our hobby. Always willing to order what was not stocked. She passed soon after the closing. Very sad. Philly Flyers all miss her and her dedicated shop.

I loved Penn Valley, but hadn't shopped there much lately.  Like someone mentioned previously - attitude.   I always ended up with the A hole that wanted to talk about trains with all his train buddies.  Many times he totally ignored me waiting to check out at the register to continue his choo choo conversations with his buddies.  The last time it happened, I put my stuff down on the counter and walked out, never to return.  You just don't treat customers that way.

I have three local hobby shops that I get 95% of my stuff from-they're as close as my computer.  Tower, Horizon and in a pinch, Hobby King.  Quick, easy, usually cheaper and I don't have to spend a dime on gas.  Between the three of them, they almost always have what I want and get it to me quickly.  I needed some stuff for my latest plane the other day.  Actually it was Monday night.  I jumped on line and found everything I needed at Tower.  Placed my order.  My shipping charges were $1.99   No sales tax.  My order shipped Tuesday, they sent me a tracking number telling me that the little brown truck will be at my house on Friday.   Not bad.

Sorry, I know that's not what a lot of people want to hear, but with the cost of gas, my time being at a premium, and the fact that a lot of the time the local shops don't have exactly what you want,  I'll continue to shop on line.  Your mileage may vary.
 

Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: LHS Frustration
« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2014, 07:00:03 PM »
I loved Penn Valley, but hadn't shopped there much lately.  Like someone mentioned previously - attitude.   I always ended up with the A hole that wanted to talk about trains with all his train buddies.  Many times he totally ignored me waiting to check out at the register to continue his choo choo conversations with his buddies.  The last time it happened, I put my stuff down on the counter and walked out, never to return.  You just don't treat customers that way.

I have three local hobby shops that I get 95% of my stuff from-they're as close as my computer.  Tower, Horizon and in a pinch, Hobby King.  Quick, easy, usually cheaper and I don't have to spend a dime on gas.  Between the three of them, they almost always have what I want and get it to me quickly.  I needed some stuff for my latest plane the other day.  Actually it was Monday night.  I jumped on line and found everything I needed at Tower.  Placed my order.  My shipping charges were $1.99   No sales tax.  My order shipped Tuesday, they sent me a tracking number telling me that the little brown truck will be at my house on Friday.   Not bad.

Sorry, I know that's not what a lot of people want to hear, but with the cost of gas, my time being at a premium, and the fact that a lot of the time the local shops don't have exactly what you want,  I'll continue to shop on line.  Your mileage may vary.
 

Exactly Vince, this is life in 2014.  And it isn't just hobby supplies.

I recently looked for a 3M cleaner for electrical items - it's great stuff.  Local supplier could order it in, X dollars for 2 cans.  I went to Amazon and purchased 3 cans plus a keyboard cleaner kit for less money, with free shipping.  It arrived at my door within a few days.

Purchased a new laser printer direct from HP for about $70 less than the best the best "big box" price available in the Twin Cities, with free shipping.  FedEx delivered it to my door step the next morning - honest!

I haven't seen dust covers for printers in computer stores for several years.  Found them on eBay for less than a cup of coffee, with free shipping.

Purchased a set of 4 new tires last week - found the best price locally for the tire I wanted on the internet; my "shopping" consisted of that search, 3 phone calls, and a drive to have them installed.

It's not the "fault" of my LHS they don't get more of my business - those shops have some very knowledgeable, friendly employees, some of whom I've known for years.

It's all about running a viable business in 2014.

Any of you who question that should order a dozen gallons of fuel from every supplier we have now, and then see how long it takes you to sell them to the contacts you currently have.  Or can find.

In fact, you might not want to hear this: one of my favorite shops - which maintains a website - affiliated with Amazon in time for the Christmas season last year.  If I remember correctly, the manager told me their December sales through Amazon alone were about 35% of their total sales for the year before.

It's about dollars and inventory turnover; to run a LHS just as a "favor" to us would be financial suicide!


Dennis



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Offline Dennis Moritz

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Re: LHS Frustration
« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2014, 10:42:17 PM »
Penn Valley was an experience, a respite from day to day pressures. Took me back. I had more than one dust up with folks behind the counter. (Never with Gene, who was a sweet heart.) Considerably more compelling than being ignored. Once or twice I even took a vacation from the place for a few months. So what. We all bring an a-hole with us wherever we go. Penn Valley was irreplaceable. You know that life-size Old Time Hobby Shop diorama in Muncie at the AMA museum. Penn Valley was that, live.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2014, 01:24:12 AM by Dennis Moritz »

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Re: LHS Frustration
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2014, 06:08:21 AM »
Speaking of Muncie. The hobby shop at the field is closed and I think the AMA is missing the boat by not have one at the field. What gives are they modelers or just a corporate entity look to make a buck on bean fields?
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: LHS Frustration
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2014, 08:19:50 AM »
Speaking of Muncie. The hobby shop at the field is closed and I think the AMA is missing the boat by not have one at the field. What gives are they modelers or just a corporate entity look to make a buck on bean fields?
This one baffled me.  If a hobby shop THERE can't survive where else?  It did seem they missed the boat on a few things-like stocking NO engines.  That might be more that the owner just wore out with it.
We have one LHS here in the KC metro that obviously doesn't carry much CL but usually has the building supplies, fuel,  props and Dubro stuff the average modeller needs.  Just have to get CL kits and engines elsewhere.  Better  'n nuttin'.

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Offline Dennis Moritz

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Re: LHS Frustration
« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2014, 09:07:16 AM »
The Muncie hobby shop was privately owned. He said business just fell off. He could no longer make a go of it.










Offline Paul Smith

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Re: LHS Frustration
« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2014, 09:49:04 AM »
We still have The Prop Shop in Centerline to serve the Detroit area.  Please trow them all the bones you can to keep a local hobby shop on line.

I'm  sure the LHS'ers found out engines are a losing deal.  They tie up a ton of money, then a better unit comes out and leaves 'em with dead stock.  Then Tower Hobbies becomes the supplier of LHS's and sells to online customers at the same or a lower price. 

CL kits are also a losing business deal.  Most CL'ers build from basic materials and only collectors buy kits.  I still prefer to buy $10 worth of wood and cut out the parts rather than pay $79 for a laser-or-die cut kit.
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: LHS Frustration
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2014, 10:02:58 AM »
That's why your LHS has to have the beads, plaster, artists supplies, plug n play RC and anything else it can to keep the lights on.  Just not enough interest concentrated in one area to make it.  And I'm afraid to say the truth- if you try to make a business of controline you'll go hungry.  Have to have or do something else to generate revenue.  If you provide goods or a service it's out of a shear love to do it.  You won't be buying any private islands to retire.  You would have to supply to the RC crowd too and maybe have a pension elsewhere.  Just the place we find ourselves.  The LHS has to invest its limited resources where they hope to turn profit and cater to the customers who walk in.
Though I do buy a lot of stuff mail order because that's the only way to get the certain things I need,  anything I CAN get from my LHS even if they cost a little more,  I buy there.
Dave
AMA 20934
FAA Certificate FA3ATY4T94


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