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Author Topic: Banshee Oops  (Read 4276 times)

Offline Motorman

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Banshee Oops
« on: April 20, 2014, 06:16:38 PM »
What's wrong with this banshee, any suggestions?



MM

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Banshee Oops
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2014, 06:18:53 PM »
What's wrong with this banshee, any suggestions?

   Install it from the bottom.

     Brett

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Banshee Oops
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2014, 07:14:50 PM »
Hook + to - and stand by with the fire extinguisher.  LL~ Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Motorman

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Re: Banshee Oops
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2014, 09:49:02 PM »
If all else fails read the instructions. I was going to cut the push rod slot forward to the spar then take the push rod out but, cutting out the fuse would let me cover it and put the flaps on first.

How do you usually cover and put a flapped wing in a profile (one without a battery box)? On my Tanager I put the covering and flaps on first then cut a slot in the fuse for the flaps to slide through.

MM

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Banshee Oops
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2014, 10:02:29 PM »
Well, you're qualified to be a mechanical engineer!

I install the wing, then install the flaps upon it.  Actually, I usually dry fit everything before the wing goes in -- but the final assembly of the flaps happens after the wing is in.

I also use a ball joint on the bellcrank, and install the flap link after the plane is finished -- I find that an hour spent cursing and fishing around with flashlight and hooked wire at final assembly time is less frustration than trying to work around a wire during the entire finishing process.
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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Banshee Oops
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2014, 10:40:41 PM »
Well, you're qualified to be a mechanical engineer!

I also use a ball joint on the bellcrank, and install the flap link after the plane is finished -- I find that an hour spent cursing and fishing around with flashlight and hooked wire at final assembly time is less frustration than trying to work around a wire during the entire finishing process.

This coming from and ELectrical controls kinda engineer??^^
Tim build a full fuse plane,, you dont have to finish around the flap rod anymore that way,, its buried!
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Banshee Oops
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2014, 10:49:35 PM »
This coming from and ELectrical controls kinda engineer??^^

I was speaking as an assembly technician.
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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline John Rist

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Re: Banshee Oops
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2014, 10:56:41 PM »
Remove part of the deck.  Remove push rod.  Install wing.  Replace rod and deck.
John Rist
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Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Banshee Oops
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2014, 12:20:27 AM »
    I just have to ask why you needed to build a box on the wing leading edge for the battery? I had to look at the picture for several minutes before I noticed how offset it was from the center line. With the length of the nose, and the average size and weight of the Banshee, I would think that there would be a battery available that would mount in a normal manor in front of the leading edge, even if you shortened the nose a bit. I don't fly electric, but have seen many other electric profile models, and don't recall anyone having to put the battery into the leading edge. If a nose heavy condition was trying to be avoided, a slightly longer tail moment and larger tail surfaces would have helped with static balance. Just askin'.
    If you must continue in this manor, I would just cut a narrow slot for the push rod to pass through, save the cut out, then complete the wing installation. When all is straight, level and glued in, glue the cut out back in place and fill in cracks and gaps.
   Good luck and have fun,
    Dan McEntee
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Offline William DeMauro

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Re: Banshee Oops
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2014, 05:57:06 AM »
I don't really have any close up picture on this computer and I don't have access to my other photo's at the moment but this is how we did the battery mount on Kevin's Banshee. We did shorten the nose by a about an inch and a half. I don't see any need to put it in the wing but everybody likes to do things differently.
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Offline Motorman

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Re: Banshee Oops
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2014, 08:18:23 AM »
I know that battery placement on smaller (400 sq. in.) planes like flight streak, ringmaster ect. is a problem to get the vertical CG on center. I don't like the look of the battery at an angle solution so, I came up with the idea to put it in the wing. Problem was cutting the leading edge in half right where it needs the most strength. Battery in wing box is nothing new but, I wanted to come up with some kind of standard construction method for my own sake. Probably not necessary on the larger Banshee but I had the kit and wanted to prove the "wing won't fold" concept for smaller planes. Also I wanted the Banshee with the longest nose to help my mojo.

MM

Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: Banshee Oops
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2014, 08:34:19 AM »
Pardon my ribbing but I thought you might be mounting an .049 on the wing......actually will be a neat installation.  I would just do what I think Brett was saying- cut the fuselage bottom and install.  When you put it back together bury some pieces of 1/4" dowel across the joint with epoxy and you are good to go.  I've repaired many a broken profile fuselage this way.  Patch up the work with JB Wood Weld and you will never see the patch work.

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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Banshee Oops
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2014, 10:13:49 AM »
In my opinion, the simplest procedure would be to cut the section out under the wing slot.   Put the wing in place with just a spot of glue to hold until you put the bottom piece back in.   Remember you have to fill in the slot that saw make while cutting.   Once in place do the usual alignment procedures and glue it.   CA will hold in the areas that are touching and then epoxy can be forced into the gaps.   It will take time as the epoxy will want to run, even the 15 minute stuff.   That is why I have started using Super Fil to glue wings in place.   So far it is holding well on my planes.   
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Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Banshee Oops
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2014, 01:43:10 PM »
In my opinion, the simplest procedure would be to cut the section out under the wing slot.   Put the wing in place with just a spot of glue to hold until you put the bottom piece back in.   Remember you have to fill in the slot that saw make while cutting.   Once in place do the usual alignment procedures and glue it.   CA will hold in the areas that are touching and then epoxy can be forced into the gaps.   It will take time as the epoxy will want to run, even the 15 minute stuff.   That is why I have started using Super Fil to glue wings in place.   So far it is holding well on my planes.   

  Absolutely (as mentioned above). Some people do this anyway on profiles, even when not required. Cut the slots on about a 60 degree angle to spread the load. Use external 1/64 ply doublers and plenty of glue, or cut a groove and put a piece of plywood in it to reinforce the fuselage. I would prrobably opt for the external doublers, and make them cover the diagonal cuts, go around the TE, and over the top of the wing too. More or less elliptical, with the TE of the wing inset into it. That way you can reinforce the fuselage around the TE, which is a known weak point on all profiles. If you feather the edges of the 1/64 ply, it will be barely detectable.

    Brett

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Banshee Oops
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2014, 01:45:11 PM »
I don't really have any close up picture on this computer and I don't have access to my other photo's at the moment but this is how we did the battery mount on Kevin's Banshee. We did shorten the nose by a about an inch and a half. I don't see any need to put it in the wing but everybody likes to do things differently.

  Is this airplane abnormally nose-heavy? That's more control deflection than is used to do square corners under normal circumstances.

   Brett

Offline Geoff Goodworth

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Re: Banshee Oops
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2014, 03:18:20 PM »
'I find that an hour spent cursing and fishing around with flashlight and hooked wire at final assembly time is less frustration than trying to work around a wire during the entire finishing process.'

Tim, et al.

I use a drinking straw around the ball joint on the bellcrank for retrieving the end of the ball joint.

I get the leadout length right before fitting the last piece of centre sheeting, turn the bellcrank full forward and fit a drinking straw over the shank of the ball joint. When it's time to fit the flap pushrod—which I've already made close to length—I retrieve the end of the drinking straw, slip the pushrod down the straw, screw it into the ball joint and slip the straw off the back.

It works best with solid or boxed trailing edges—even if you only box the one bay of the trailing edge. The straws they sell in our supermarkets are too small but the ones at McDonalds work fine.

Offline William DeMauro

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Re: Banshee Oops
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2014, 05:55:02 PM »
  Is this airplane abnormally nose-heavy? That's more control deflection than is used to do square corners under normal circumstances.

   Brett
   Brett,
I don't remember exactly when this picture was taken but it was with my 2012 Nats photos so it very well might have been one of his official beginner flights. That plane is not abnormally nose heave and I think it was just Kevin over controlling it on approach. The plane has since been retired as Kevin wants to keep it as a keepsake from his winning beginner that year.
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Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: Banshee Oops
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2014, 10:16:05 AM »
Just cut the bottom out, install the wing and be done wit it. You really don't need anything other than to fill the saw nerf when putting it back together. Cut it as shown and use epoxy to glue it back together.

Offline Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach

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Re: Banshee Oops
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2014, 11:29:08 AM »
I agree with Bob Reeves.  I have done as he describes on more than one profile ship and never had a failure of that joint....other failures yes, but not that one! H^^
Glenn Reach
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