Author Topic: Ballerina (Read 12618 times)

Keith Spriggs · « **on:** January 03, 2007, 10:08:16 PM »

Many years ago I saw a construction article in a magazine for a stunt plane called Ballerina. I thought at the time it was the most beautiful plane I had ever seen. I have been doing some research and I think it appeared in Model Airplane News October of 1959. I see that plans are available through AMA. There may have been later versions and possible one of the later versions appeared in Flying Models. Does anyone have a picture of the original plane (or even a later version) that they could post. If you have the magazine I would gladly pay you for a copy of the article. The mans name that designed it was something like Likleter. If it still looks as good to me as it did almost 50 years ago I would like to build one.
Thanks

Bill Sawyer · « **Reply #1 on:** January 03, 2007, 11:05:49 PM »

Years ago there were a few kits hand made by the designer of the Ballerina III. I was able to find one in terrible condition but was able to reproduce it. The wingspan was 50 inches and was different than the Ballerina. The Ballerina was 54 inch span and had a wheel pant on the tail wheel and used a canopy that was very difficult to make as it was carved from two blocks. The Ballerina had cheek cowls but the Ballerina II did not. The origional Ballerina III kit used the Ringmaster Sportster canopy and came with a repiped T-21 c tank and a molded aluminum instrument panel with inserted glass jewels - it had no tail wheel pant.
The magazine came out years later with a similar plane called the Ballerina III but the wingspan was 51 1/2 inches and used a different canopy as well as other differences. I have the magazine and the plans they are now offering as I wanted to compare them. Considering the changes I dont beleive the new version is classic legal but the origional Ballerina and Ballerina III are. You can buy copies of the magazine article and plans from the magazine -- that's where I got mine.

Leester · « **Reply #2 on:** January 04, 2007, 01:54:28 AM »

From Flying Models the Ballerina III plans are CD0023 for 12.00 and the magazine from 1997 can be ordered also for 3.00-4.00. This has the changed 51 1/2" WS.

Ralph Wenzel (d) · « **Reply #3 on:** January 04, 2007, 02:07:52 AM »

I agree, I thought it was beautiful; kinda like a grown-up Ercoupe. I have one of Bill Sawyer's Ballerina III kits, and it's really nice. You might contact him to see when there will be another production run. It's a fairly large plane for the venerable Fox .35, and even if built very light would require some "help" in the wind. Mine will probably end up with either a Brodak B.40 or an ST G21 .46, more likely the latter.

When I reorganize my shop (really soon now!) I'll move the main worktable into the center and have an I-Beam orgy. I have the Ballerina, Cobra, Ares, Colossus (I hope soon) and something else which escapes me just now.

If you build one of these from FM plans, beware! There is a serious error in the drawings that produces a huge wing incidence alignment (like 3/8") , and if built per plans, the thing will NEVER fly right!

Charlie Pate · « **Reply #4 on:** January 04, 2007, 11:51:43 AM »

I think Tom Dixon has the "corrected Plans.
I built two of them ;really liked them.
Took one to VSCII(picture was in Flying Models)

RC Storick · « **Reply #5 on:** January 04, 2007, 12:19:11 PM »

Carstesns publications probably has the plans and a back issue. Click on the Flying Models add when you see it and you will be taken there.

Quote from: Keith Spriggs on January 03, 2007, 10:08:16 PM

Many years ago I saw a construction article in a magazine for a stunt plane called Ballerina. I thought at the time it was the most beautiful plane I had ever seen. I have been doing some research and I think it appeared in Model Airplane News October of 1959. I see that plans are available through AMA. There may have been later versions and possible one of the later versions appeared in Flying Models. Does anyone have a picture of the original plane (or even a later version) that they could post. If you have the magazine I would gladly pay you for a copy of the article. The mans name that designed it was something like Likleter. If it still looks as good to me as it did almost 50 years ago I would like to build one.
Thanks

Bill Little · « **Reply #6 on:** January 04, 2007, 12:34:24 PM »

Quote from: Robert Storick on January 04, 2007, 12:19:11 PM

Carstesns publications probably has the plans and a back issue. Click on the Flying Models add when you see it and you will be taken there.

Flying Models lost quite a bit of their old plans from a fire, or other such problem, some time back. As to the articles, I think they are still available from FM. But the plans might be a problem from FM.

Also, PAMPA Products has about every article on stunt planes there was "back in the day".

Bill <><

Annette Elmore · « **Reply #7 on:** January 04, 2007, 04:21:01 PM »

Keith Spriggs · « **Reply #8 on:** January 04, 2007, 09:58:08 PM »

Thanks to all who responded, you have been a great help. I really doubted that anyone would even remember a plane that was almost 50 years old.

Rudderless thanks for telling me it was in FM magazine. I had got the information that it was in Model Airplane News. I had looked through all my old magazines and I didn't find it in MAN of course. Today I went through the Flying Model magazines and I found it. The article is really a construction article with full size patterns and 1/4 size plans.

Bill I have tried many complex projects in my life, but I don't think I am up to carving the canopy. I have got to respect anyone who ever made one of those. I am pretty iffy on the wheel pants on the tailwheel. In fact the construction all looks pretty complicated like building the wings in thin air after the fuselage and wing spars are built as a unit. As I look at the plans I can see why I didn't build one in 1959.

Ralph thanks for the heads up on the 3/8 inch error. Even with my Skil saw and hatched construction methods that is quite a bit.

Tony Thanks for the beautiful pictures. That is some fantastic construction.

I scanned a couple of pictures from the original article. I don't think I ever scanned a magazine page and got it straight and these pictures are no exception.

Bill Sawyer · « **Reply #9 on:** January 04, 2007, 11:46:06 PM »

I bought the magazine from Flying models about three years ago and I think it was the last one but they still sell copies of the article. I also bought the plans from them at the same time. They still listed the plans as available when I checked recently. The plans they sold me are of a slightly different Ballerina III than the origional kit. The wingspan is 1 1/2 inches longer in the new plans and there are other changes.

The errors on the plans are in the wing position in the fuselage and in the airfoil. The wing has incidence as drawn but because of the error the aitrfoil is different on top of the wing as compared to the bottom. As drawn the plane would try to fly with the nose slightly down when upright. This error seems to have been in all of the versions of the plane.

Ralph Wenzel (d) · « **Reply #10 on:** January 05, 2007, 12:01:00 AM »

BTW, Bill - The Veco P-51 canopies arrived on Tuesday. Thanks for the quick service. Now I'm gonna have to "put up or shut" up about the F-82, huh? And build the support system in the Transporter.

Annette Elmore · « **Reply #11 on:** January 05, 2007, 01:56:13 AM »

Unfortunately the models are not mine - anybody claim them/know who the do belong to?

Annette Elmore · « **Reply #12 on:** January 05, 2007, 03:24:44 AM »

Another pic complete with a picture of the handsome owner

George · « **Reply #13 on:** January 05, 2007, 12:48:30 PM »

Quote from: Keith Spriggs on January 04, 2007, 09:58:08 PM

... In fact the construction all looks pretty complicated like building the wings in thin air after the fuselage and wing spars are built as a unit. As I look at the plans I can see why I didn't build one in 1959.

Keith,

The wing is actually not built in thin air. The fuselage and the rectangular pieces at the tips (which become ribs) are used to support the I-beam, LE, and TE, while the strip ribs are installed. I believe this is typical I-beam construction.

The Ballerina is also shown on page 57 of Tom Morris' "Classic Era Construction Drawings".

It IS a beautiful ship.

George

Annette Elmore · « **Reply #14 on:** January 06, 2007, 10:45:23 AM »

I've just remembered - I think the 'handsome' owner of the Ballerina is Bill Sawyer!

Bill Sawyer · « **Reply #15 on:** January 06, 2007, 11:06:05 AM »

Tony,
I do not own the Ballerina(s) in the photos. The Ballerina III I built had an accident not related to flying so all I have left is the parts of the 60's kit and one of my reproduction kits. I am in the process of having the plans for the classic legal Ballerina III drawn in Autocad so that I can produce them more accurately. Unfortunately I never took photos of the one I built. Look for the kits later this year.

Bill

Tom Niebuhr · « **Reply #16 on:** January 06, 2007, 12:07:26 PM »

I have a picture of Charlie Lickliter holding the Ballerina III at the 1961 Nats. I think he placed 2nd in open that year. I'll scan it when I have some extra time.

I also have a drawing, that Charlie gave to me a while back of the Ballerina III. It was is drawn by Charlie and very well detailed. This apparently was the basis of the FM publication

That was one of my favorite airplanes, and had one of the best cockpits. There is a good picture of the cockpit in the more recent publication of the Ballerina III in Flying Models

Annette Elmore · « **Reply #17 on:** January 06, 2007, 03:29:01 PM »

Sorry Bill - for some reason I thought it was you!

Tom Niebuhr · « **Reply #18 on:** January 09, 2007, 02:33:39 AM »

Here are the pictures I took of the Ballerina III at the '61 Willow Grove Nats. Charlie took 2nd in Open. This is one my all time favorites, and it would be a Concours winner even by todays standards. Sorry that the old slides are not the best.

Keith Spriggs · « **Reply #19 on:** January 09, 2007, 07:10:43 AM »

Quote from: Tom Niebuhr on January 09, 2007, 02:33:39 AM

Here are the pictures I took of the Ballerina III at the '61 Willow Grove Nats. .

Thank you very much for the colored pictures. I had no idea what color the original had been.

Thanks also to all the others for the information and offers they provided. I know much more about Ballerina than when I first started this thread. This is a great forum, a great bunch of participants, and last but not least Robert who has made it all possible.

Tom Niebuhr · « **Reply #20 on:** January 09, 2007, 10:15:53 AM »

Keith,
FYI the Ballerina III shown was Metalic Blue.

As I recall, John Davis also had one at the '61 Nats, painted the same. Charlie also had another one in the old Navy work hanger, that was grey.

I don't know the actual colors of the cheek version that was in the first FM article.

Mike McHenry · « **Reply #21 on:** January 09, 2007, 04:41:39 PM »

Tom, you were right about Charlie having a grey one. A couple of years later he was kind enough to give that on to my Dad (Bob McHenry), who liked it so much that he built one for himself. Dad flew the grey one for a couple of seasons. Fortunately I still have set of the original plans with Charlie's markings on them, as well as a set of the templates Dad made for building. Attached is a picture from 1964 from Chanute Field in Rantool, IL. The 6 year old crewman is me. Thanks for starting this strand, it has brought back lots of memories and maybe inspired me to build one in the near future.

Mike

Tom Niebuhr · « **Reply #22 on:** January 10, 2007, 12:50:22 AM »

Mike,
I am shocked to see a picture of Charlie's Grey Ballerina III. It is going into my permanent file... Thanks! The only place I ever saw it was on the bench in the Navy work hanger.

I was in awe of his Ballerina III. To this day it had one of the best cockpits I have ever seen. And the staggered hinge line looked fabulous. It was part of the Ballerina look.

I was thrilled when Charlie sent me a copy of his hand drawn plans several years ago, well before the "III" was published in FM. The plans revealed how the hinges were made. Now, I wonder if they are the same plans that your father had.

Like I said above, Charlie was an incredible builder, and that airplane is possibly the only one that I can think of that would win the Concours today.

BTW, Mike, assuming that the Cheek version that was published in 1959 was the Ballerina "I", and we know what the "III" looked like, would you know what the Ballerina "II" looked like?

Mike McHenry · « **Reply #23 on:** January 10, 2007, 05:02:43 AM »

Tom, I have no idea what the Ballerina II looked like. I will get with my Dad in the next couple of days and see if he has any idea. Personally I did not like the cheeky version. The III had a nice smooth look to it that I preferred. Dad also did the staggered hinge line on another model a few years later. They look great, but sure seemed like a lot of work. I will get back with you when I get some info. Take care!

Bill Sawyer · « **Reply #24 on:** January 11, 2007, 09:38:03 AM »

After looking over the pictures of both the blue and the gray Ballerina III's I can tell that they appear to be the same as the Ballerina III kit that I bought 12 years ago. The only difference I can see is the canopy that was included in the kit. It was from a Ringmaster Sportster. The plans with the my kit show the use of the Ringmaster Sportster canopy.

Tom Niebuhr · « **Reply #25 on:** January 11, 2007, 03:45:35 PM »

Bill,

I am sure that the Ringmaster Sportser canopy is incorrect.

I will carve a new plug for my kits if it is necessary to duplicate the looks of an airplane. My "Roadrunner" and "J.D.Falcon" kits have custom canopies for that reason.

I will check Charlie's pencil drawing and trace the canopy for you. If we are producing kits we should reproduce everything we can. I don't think we should repeat the mistakes of past manufacturers.Otherwise we will be repeatimg the errors like Sterling's Ruffy, Skylark, etc.

I'll mail the tracing to you. I feel strongly that we in the Cottage industry should help each other when we can. Quality is the only thing we have to compete with the Chinese imports that are trying to destroy us.

Mike McHenry · « **Reply #26 on:** January 16, 2007, 04:05:40 PM »

Tom, here are some pictures of my Dad's Ballerina III. These were taken from 64-66. It had a beautiful Metallic Green finish. I did ask him about the II model, and he could not remember if there was one. He was only aware of the I and III. As far as the canopy is concerned, he obviously did not use the one from the plans, but I don't think it affected the look of the plane.

Tom Niebuhr · « **Reply #27 on:** January 18, 2007, 04:09:29 AM »

Mike,
Good to see those pictures. It is a beautiful rendition. Looks blue in the picture though.

I am going to try to get in touch with Charlie Lickliter to see if I can get a little more on the history.

I have also talked to someone who had more info about John Davis's Ballerina. It was built from one of approx 25 kits that Charlie made. John's canopy apparently was a P47 canopy. I'll let y'all know anything more I can find out about the design.

Tom Niebuhr · « **Reply #28 on:** January 18, 2007, 04:24:59 AM »

Tony Elmore,

Can you tell us who owned the Ballerinas that you posted?

Keith Spriggs · « **Reply #29 on:** January 19, 2007, 11:06:07 PM »

Quote from: Tom Niebuhr on January 18, 2007, 04:09:29 AM

Mike,
I'll let y'all know anything more I can find out about the design.

That would be great. Thanks Tom

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #30 on:** January 19, 2007, 11:59:35 PM »

Bill Sawyer has some knowledge of this airplane as well. He just sent me a copy of the plans to clean up

Tom Niebuhr · « **Reply #31 on:** January 20, 2007, 03:38:22 PM »

Tony,
I just saw the blow up your pictures. The "Blue Ballerina I" belongs to Mike Ostella, but I don't know the owner of the other. My guess is the picture was taken at VSC.

Tom Niebuhr · « **Reply #32 on:** January 24, 2007, 01:25:00 AM »

Mike Ostella confirmed that the Blue "Ballerina I" is his, and the other one belongs to Tommy Sugar. The picture was taken at VSC 11, 1999.

Mike carved a canopy plug to include the bircage, and then had it vacuum formed.

Keith Spriggs · « **Reply #33 on:** January 25, 2007, 07:47:16 AM »

Quote from: Keith Spriggs on January 03, 2007, 10:08:16 PM

Many years ago I saw a construction article in a magazine for a stunt plane called Ballerina.

Since I posted this three weeks ago I have gone from only a memory to having a set of plans and a tremendous amount of information for the Ballerina.

None of this would have been possible with out the internet, Roberts website, and a great bunch who are willing to share their knowledge and even more. What a blessing to have all three.

There is no adequate way for me to express my appreciation to each of you , so I will just say
THANKS

john e. holliday · « **Reply #34 on:** January 25, 2007, 08:40:35 AM »

Now, when do we see your version? DOC Holliday

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #35 on:** January 25, 2007, 09:40:01 AM »

Gentlmen,
heres a tease for you, In the near future there is a good possibility that a laser cut kit will be available for this airplane. Bill Sawyer and I are working on it now. I have a set of plans that I am cleaning up and prepping for a possible kit. So if you are interested lets let Bill know ok?

Keith Spriggs · « **Reply #36 on:** January 25, 2007, 10:14:52 AM »

Quote from: john e. holliday on January 25, 2007, 08:40:35 AM

Now, when do we see your version? DOC Holliday

Well let's see I have a steam engine to complete before I dare start building anything and then when I start a Bi Slob ARF and a 38 Special and a Tomahawk. So lets see 3 months plus 1 month plus 6 months plus one year that is a total of 22 months with 2 weeks for vacation.

Probably Spring of 2009

roger gebhart · « **Reply #37 on:** January 28, 2007, 03:46:47 PM »

I suppose a Ballerina could be a scal stunter. If you can stand a nose wheel. Anyway thought you might ike this. Just for fun