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Offline Motorman

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« on: June 24, 2013, 08:37:23 AM »
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« Last Edit: September 08, 2021, 10:20:34 PM by Motorman »

Offline FLOYD CARTER

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Re: How do you match motor/batt to plane?
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2013, 10:23:36 AM »
I've found the same problem with motors.  Manufacturers seem to assume that the user can get all needed info. from  size, weight, Kv.!!  Fortunately, electrics have a wider power band than IC engines.  I start with a prop that seems the right size for a given model.  Battery voltage and Kv will give the maximum RPM available.  If you dial in the desired RPM, the motor will deliver as long as the current draw is within the capability of the motor.

There are probably more scientific methods, but they seem to be obscure.

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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: How do you match motor/batt to plane?
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2013, 11:37:59 AM »
The Kv of the motor is the multiplier from applied voltage to motor speed with no prop attached.  So a 1250Kv motor with 14.8V applied should turn at 18,500 RPM.

That's not useful, because it decreases slightly with load, and more than slightly as the batteries poop out at the end of a flight.  You want to set an RPM such that the governor never goes out of regulation, so you derate your battery's full voltage by 25% and apply it (or derate the speed).  This gives you (18,500 RPM)(0.75) = 13875 RPM.

(You are using a governor, yes?  A KR timer, or a Hubin timer and an ESC that has "helicopter" or "CL" mode?)

So, don't set your governor to more than 13875 at launch, and you should have just as much speed at the end as you do at the beginning.  With that prop and 13875 RPM your arm will likely grow longer, so you probably want to set for a RPM, or use a shallower pitch prop, or both.
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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: How do you match motor/batt to plane?
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2013, 01:46:01 PM »
Look in the "List your setup" thread.  The most important airplane parameter is the weight.  Match the motor & battery to planes that weigh what you want, or set your plane's target weight and size to match the motor & battery that you have.
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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: How do you match motor/batt to plane?
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2013, 12:17:21 AM »
I've been reading that thread, seems to be allot of different set ups for similar planes.

Superficially yes, the setups are different.

If you look at the peak motor power per ounce of plane, and the average power during the flight per ounce of plane, they start to look a lot more similar.
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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline RC Storick

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Re: How do you match motor/batt to plane?
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2013, 08:41:11 AM »
What I am setting out to do is lighten the whole package up. The lighter the projected weight the less battery you need. Seeing as the battery is the heavyest part I am starting with the battery weight.

I like the weight of the eflight motors 6.5 the problem is you need to use the 4s battery that weighs 12.5 for 3300MAH. I have found the same size motor in a AXI 2826/12 for use with the 5s 2700 MAH at 10 oz. same physical size motor and same weight. So I am loosing 2.5 oz more with same output. 2.5 oz on the business end of the plane (the nose) Should give me more of the feel I am chasing.
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Offline jose modesto

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Re: How do you match motor/batt to plane?
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2013, 12:49:07 PM »
Robert that's the same set up listed by Norm whittle on his model.
We are using the same on the E Sharks under 20oz for E package
With the long leads on motor and ESC the components can be moved closer to CG
Imaging if you could remove and additional 1.4 oz from the tail for a saving og 3.75 oz for the model
Your current 58oz model will get to your goal of under 55 oz savings.
I fly my new 650 SI model prior to painting at 52 oz with forward CG they fly great then I add 6.5 oz of paint
I have some molded SV stabs that achieved just that savings with out moving stab forward.
You should retro fit your current model with this set up and move Batt forward to realize the weight savings.
Please use ice lite 50 with 5s you don't want to have to repair or loose a model. The 45 does not work with 5s
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Offline Dean Pappas

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Re: How do you match motor/batt to plane?
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2013, 08:56:20 PM »
Hi Sparky,
Okay, so we're looking for a 6.5 ounce motor (or less) with a KV around 700 ~ 750, and the ability to handle 20A average with brief peaks of maybe 30A.
The search is on.

Dean
Dean Pappas

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: How do you match motor/batt to plane?
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2013, 09:47:34 PM »
Did my searches and been reading everything I can find, still confused. Looking at the Eflite power series, they say the power25 with 4s 4000mah is the same as a 25 glow for RC but we use it in place of a 40? then someone else tells me the power15 with 3s 3300mah is big enough. There's another motor called a 35 because it's 35mm dia. Reading the "List your set up" thread, there must be many ways to do the same thing and the advise I'm getting is all over the map. How do you pick a motor and battery for your plane? Copy someone else, blindly stick with one mentor or is there a way to calculate the optimum system? I'm looking at planes with 550-600 Sq.In. that would use a B40 or LA46.

The motor is rated at 58 amps burst current.  With a 4-cell pack (14.8V), that works out to 755 watts peak. 

Figure on 11 watts/ounce for peak power, and that leaves you with a maximum plane weight of 68 ounces (!).

The batteries will deliver 59 watt-hours of energy from full charge to fully depleted.  You want to use just 70% to 80% of that.  Say 45 watt-hours.  You're going to fly for six minutes (at least, that seems to be what people set up to do).  45 watt-hours for 1/10 of an hour leaves you at 450 watts average.

Figure on 7 watts/ounce for average power, and the battery pack should be good for a 64 ounce airplane.

Unless you build as heavily as I do, you're slightly, but not terribly, over-batteried and over-motored for your size range of plane.  I'd stick with that motor, build a plane with extra space in the battery compartment to allow for playing with different batteries, and run with it.  And I don't just mean I'm suggesting it -- I mean, if I had that combination of stuff, I'd probably build a 600 square inch plane to go with it (well, 599, to be sure to fit into Bob Hunt's new class).

The 11W/oz and 7W/oz figures came from a study I did a year or two ago on the airplanes in the "list your setup" thread; they showed a strong trend, and that was it.

I'm not so sure about props, but I suspect that you'll be happier with a 12 inch prop than 11 -- but you'll want to fiddle around with different combinations to see what makes sense for you.

The rating system that eFlight uses is, I am convinced, designed so that no matter how absurdly high-performance a 25 you have, their eFlight 25 will match it.  Stunt engines get run well below their power potential, and aren't 35000 RPM racing screamers to start with.  Which is why the number on the motor tells you how to order another one just like it, or one that's one step bigger or smaller, but not a whole lot about exactly what glow engine to replace with it.
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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: How do you match motor/batt to plane?
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2013, 11:09:34 PM »
Prop is APC 11-5.5, could you explain how to find the max rpm using batt V and Kv? Eflite 25 is 1250Kv 51A and battery is 14.8v.

Thanks,
MM
The Eflight power 25 that is 1250 KV and is a spec motor for EF-1 pylon racing
the Eflight  power 25 you want is the other one,, I believe the KV is 870,,

Kv is shorthand, basically it represents the theoretical RPM per volt ( assuming all componants will sustain it)

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