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Author Topic: Custom Models Forerunner  (Read 23159 times)

Offline 55chevr

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Custom Models Forerunner
« on: June 02, 2013, 09:27:59 PM »
I got the bug again ... haven't flown control line in 25 years.   I dug a Custom Models Forerunner out of the garage attic and will get it built in a week or so.  Planning on powering it with a Saito 40A.   Any suggestions?


Joe
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Offline Bruce Hautamaki

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2013, 09:56:00 PM »
    I built mine years ago and Loved it. Originaly powered it with an Fp-40 on a pipe and changed to a g-21 .46 and it was perfect. I think the plans show the motor mounted on the oposite side of the fuse and I went that way with the piped 40 but have the tigre mounted the right way now. It's a joy to fly. You won't be sorry.

Offline Phil Spillman

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2013, 07:32:38 AM »
Hi There, I think that the .40A may be a bit light for this plane! Do add a tippler to the inside of the fuse. assuming you'll be mounting your engine the usual way! I really enjoyed mine flew it until it was too pooped to pop! ST .46 or .51 would be nice but an LA .46 was great for me!
Phil Spillman

Offline SteveMoon

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2013, 04:15:03 PM »
Joe: I've flown with Tom Farmer, the designer of the Forerunner for almost 20 years now.
My brother and I have built two of the Custom Models kits. They are good quality kits.
If you are going to go with the Saito 40 then I would mount the engine outboard. If you
use a two stroke motor then I would mount the motor inboard as Tom designed it. Otherwise,
I wouldn't change anything about the kit. It's a great flying plane and you'll enjoy it.

Steve

Offline 55chevr

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2013, 10:29:54 PM »
I must have started building it before the kid grew up and went off to play hockey in Canada.  We were flying partners and that ended that.   The wings sheeted and the fuselage is assembled.  I drilled it for an OS Max 40FP which I found in its original box.  I am kind of intrigued by the 4 strokes for a variety of reasons. One is noise as there aren't a lot of local flying fields in the proximity of New York City. The 4 strokes are not as piercingly loud as the 2 strokes are and I will be flying at the local elementary school ball field. History repeats itself.  Like the idea of mounting the Saito 40A conventionally.  I asked Bob Reeves to perform his magic on the carb.  I also found my original U-Reely from the late 50-s.  This is going to be a blast. 
What's next - fast combat?

Joe
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2013, 11:41:18 AM »
Ditch the U-Reely and get a regular handle.   There are several out there that are much better.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline SteveMoon

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2013, 11:48:08 AM »
Agree with Doc, keep the U-Reely as a memento, but don't use it. Check
with Brodak, RSM, or Ultra Hobby Products for something better.

Steve

Offline 55chevr

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2013, 07:22:34 PM »
The unfortunate part is that I learned to fly control line using a U-Reely and got very comfortable with it.  I tried an EZ Just later on and it just didn't feel right.   I think it is the longer moment and heavy weight.  What is additionally odd is that I learned from a left handed kid and while I am right handed I fly control line with my left hand.   I am not going to be a contest flyer only stunt sport flyer and just want to enjoy some of the accumulated planes I have in the attic.  Last count there are 4 Flite Streaks, 4 Jim Walker Firebats. Plus  1 each;  Goldberg Shoestring, Sterling Ringmaster, Sterling Yak 9, Veco Renegade, PT 19, Mongoose and the aforementioned Forerunner.   

Joe
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Online Joe Gilbert

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2013, 09:32:39 PM »
Have had to of then good flyers gave them both away to club members that need better planes than they had. Bob's fix on the Sato 40 is outstanding, have run one of them hundreds of flights a great power plant.
Joe Gilbert

Offline EddyR

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2013, 08:11:32 PM »
Your Forerunner with a Saito 40 will pull the lines right off the U-Reely spindles or the lines will break at the attachment point.
Ed
Locust NC 40 miles from the Huntersville field

Offline 55chevr

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2013, 12:23:42 AM »
Ed,

I flew combat with Renegades ... Hornets ... Flite Streaks powered by Johnson / Fox combat specials with a U-Reely and never even had a line failure.  All the carnage I have endured has been pilot error.  Might have been lucky but I used and abused these without incident.
Joe Daly

Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2013, 04:36:34 PM »
Ed,

I flew combat with Renegades ... Hornets ... Flite Streaks powered by Johnson / Fox combat specials with a U-Reely and never even had a line failure.  All the carnage I have endured has been pilot error.  Might have been lucky but I used and abused these without incident.

Yeah, but your U-reely wasn't 40 plus years old then...use the U-reely if you must but I hope you don't have the occassion to be very sorry you did.  Others have!


All we can do is give good advice...whether it's followed or not is up to the "user".

No animosity intended here but you are being a bit foolish by not listening to the folks that have posted here.

Randy Cuberly
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Offline 55chevr

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2013, 08:36:09 PM »
Putting new 018 lines in ... I guess you just don't understand that I cannot fly comfortably with anything but a U Reely ... used it for too many years and when I tried other handles it just didn't work ... this is about teaching old dogs new tricks.

Joe
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Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2013, 08:54:04 PM »
Putting new 018 lines in ... I guess you just don't understand that I cannot fly comfortably with anything but a U Reely ... used it for too many years and when I tried other handles it just didn't work ... this is about teaching old dogs new tricks.

Joe

Nonsense!  However I can tell that you're going to use the U Reely...no problem for me.
Best of luck.

Randy Cuberly
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2013, 08:58:49 PM »
Putting new 018 lines in ... I guess you just don't understand that I cannot fly comfortably with anything but a U Reely ... used it for too many years and when I tried other handles it just didn't work ... this is about teaching old dogs new tricks.

   Comfort notwithstanding, I urge you to look into alternatives. U-Reelys *are not safe* and particularly not those with 50-year-old plastic.

   Brett

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2013, 08:58:55 AM »
I remember my first handle that came with the Firebaby ARF, it was a fiber of some kind, very hard and very thin.   Lines wound around the handle.   Used it on I don't know how many 1/2A's.   The I got the E-Z Just Hot Rock for my first big plane.  This was the small handle of the two.  The E-Z Just was what I got for flying combat, bigger handle and more control.  I have had and still do the George Aldrich handle he made at one time.   The Handle that Marvin Denny made for a while.  The big ugly Fox handle.  Richard Byron's handle and a couple more after another guy took over.   I think I can fly any plane with any handle, other than monoline, and do my usual pattern.  It is all in the head about one handle being better than another, even the Fancher handles.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline Doug Knoyle

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Re: Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2013, 10:23:37 AM »
I can't imagine flying a Forerunner without a modern handle. It is a capable design, so why hamstring yourself with a handle without sensitivity adjustments?

I am heading out to fly right now and am going to have to use my old EZ-Just because my normal handle is not with me at this time. This is almost enough reason not to fly -- and would be better to stay home and build a new handle.

I used an EZ-Just for the first few flights on my Forerunner (last year), as well as my old flight box, but for nostalgic reasons only - as both were from my youth.

My Forerunner is highly modified with stiffer flaps and longer tail moment (to name a few) ...I could not imagine flying the stock Forerunner without a proper handle.

There is a HUGE difference in what the judges see between my flights with the EZ-Just vs a modern handle.

Good luck with what ever you choose.





Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
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Offline De Hill

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2013, 06:46:31 PM »
   Comfort notwithstanding, I urge you to look into alternatives. U-Reelys *are not safe* and particularly not those with 50-year-old plastic.

   Brett

If a handle and a set of lines passes the pull test, The AMA deems them safe to fly with.

De Hill
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Offline Doug Knoyle

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Re: Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2013, 08:40:05 PM »
Yup! Just made the new handle.

Testing it right ....now!



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Offline Doug Knoyle

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Re: Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2013, 09:23:09 PM »
Wow! I forgot how much better a modern hard-point handle is. That's worth at least 50 to 70 more points right there ...mainly because you can bias the sensitivity settings between inside and outside stuff.

Cheers

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Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2013, 11:13:40 PM »
If a handle and a set of lines passes the pull test, The AMA deems them safe to fly with.

De Hill

Hi Dee,

 I might almost be inclined to believe that pull testing is enough to determine that a handle line setup is "safe" to fly with providing it's pull tested prior to every flight.  Almost!!  We both know that most folks, especially sport fliers as this fellow has stated he is, generally do not pull test from one day to the next let alone before every flight.

The problem here is that plastic of just about any sort continues to age and embrittle with age and UV exposure.  This can result in a fatigue failure that may pass a short duration pull test but not a continuous application of force.
I personally have seen two U-Reely's fail with broken plastic connections at the spindles in the past and those handles were only about 25 years old.

I'm not trying to demand that anyone do anything a certain way...just advising based on 50 years of engineering expertise.

The user must decide for himself if he wishes to take a definite defined risk!

As a matter of fact however, I've seen many line failures during contests shortly after pull tests were performed and passed...and that indicates to me that pull tests, while worthwhile, are not definitive to "Safety".
The issue here is not whether something is legal under "rules" but whether good engineering principles should or should not be adhered to in matters of safety.
At least two senior level engineers have advised against using the U-Reely based on it's age.  n1

Besides no one will ever convince me that anyone could fly better with a U Reely than with a modern handle after a few practice flights...I do know beyond a shadow of a doubt that some folks can be very dogmatic when faced with change...even if the facts are overwhelming.  ???
Been there...Done that!   HB~>

Randy Cuberly H^^

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Tucson, AZ

Offline EddyR

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2013, 07:15:43 AM »
The one big problem with the UR is the large overhang. The lines exit so far from the hand pivot point that the handle makes any model docile or none responsive. Like a trainer handle. The second bad point is the lines slip off the ends or go at bad angles if the handle is not held straight to the line angle. As the flyer gets off angle to the lines the movement changes. What this means is up is not the same all the time. Also the line spacing is much to wide to fly stunt with and they are heavy. I flew quite a few combat models back in 1972-74 with a UR and it made the models very stable and turning slow. Many times I had the lines slide over the side of the handle. The hand needs to move up and down to the extreme to get any control. I have been there and done it. Why did I use the UR. I had just moved to Florida and I would go out to a local parking lot pull out the lines get in two flights and leave before the police showed up.
Ed
Locust NC 40 miles from the Huntersville field

Offline 55chevr

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2013, 04:46:22 PM »
Ed --- I agree with everything you wrote about the UR.   I have used a couple of different handles, both sizes of EZ Just and a custom handle that I made.  I guess that the longer moment that you mention and probably more so the weight are what I am most accustomed to.  I probably over control and the UR softens that a bit.   I used to build everything with max control and short bell cranks as we did a lot of combat flying and aggressive planes were the way to go. I did have a Nobler that flew beautifully.  It was everything advertised.  I progressed through the then AMA pattern as far as vertical 8-s with that Nobler.   Flew it on my old UR with 60' lines. I have a new UR that I bought not long ago that I am planning on using and I will give it an extensive pull test off the plane. Go for a factor of safety of 2 against the published standards.   What is interesting is that in the late 50-s at the Mirror Meet on Randall's Island, every single competitor in Junior Combat used a UR.  Must have been 40 entries.  Appreciate your thoughts on this. 

Joe
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Offline De Hill

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2013, 06:33:19 PM »
Randy,

The AMA is the entity which determines the safety of an item of equipment, If the handle and lines passes the pull test they are safe to use.

If this man wants to use a U-Reely, so be it.

De Hill



Hi Dee,

 I might almost be inclined to believe that pull testing is enough to determine that a handle line setup is "safe" to fly with providing it's pull tested prior to every flight.  Almost!!  We both know that most folks, especially sport fliers as this fellow has stated he is, generally do not pull test from one day to the next let alone before every flight.

The problem here is that plastic of just about any sort continues to age and embrittle with age and UV exposure.  This can result in a fatigue failure that may pass a short duration pull test but not a continuous application of force.
I personally have seen two U-Reely's fail with broken plastic connections at the spindles in the past and those handles were only about 25 years old.

I'm not trying to demand that anyone do anything a certain way...just advising based on 50 years of engineering expertise.

The user must decide for himself if he wishes to take a definite defined risk!

As a matter of fact however, I've seen many line failures during contests shortly after pull tests were performed and passed...and that indicates to me that pull tests, while worthwhile, are not definitive to "Safety".
The issue here is not whether something is legal under "rules" but whether good engineering principles should or should not be adhered to in matters of safety.
At least two senior level engineers have advised against using the U-Reely based on it's age.  n1

Besides no one will ever convince me that anyone could fly better with a U Reely than with a modern handle after a few practice flights...I do know beyond a shadow of a doubt that some folks can be very dogmatic when faced with change...even if the facts are overwhelming.  ???
Been there...Done that!   HB~>

Randy Cuberly H^^


De Hill

Online Brett Buck

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2013, 06:52:45 PM »
Randy,

The AMA is the entity which determines the safety of an item of equipment, If the handle and lines passes the pull test they are safe to use.

If this man wants to use a U-Reely, so be it.

  A U-reely SHOULD NOT BE USED under any circumstances, it is not safe. I have seen a little girl with a McCoy 35 embedded in her head from a U-reely failure despite having passed all applicable pull tests minutes before.

   If you want to talk AMA, trying using a U-Reely in stunt at the NATs, you will not be allowed to use it, pull test or not.  I can get the ED to tell you that if you like. Or the two prior EDs. Or the future ED.

   Brett

Offline De Hill

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2013, 06:59:25 PM »
Brett,

Why hasn't the AMA come out and made  U-Reelys illegal to use period?

I don't think this man is going to fly at the NATS.

De Hill


  A U-reely SHOULD NOT BE USED under any circumstances, it is not safe. I have seen a little girl with a McCoy 35 embedded in her head from a U-reely failure despite having passed all applicable pull tests minutes before.

   If you want to talk AMA, trying using a U-Reely in stunt at the NATs, you will not be allowed to use it, pull test or not.  I can get the ED to tell you that if you like. Or the two prior EDs. Or the future ED.

   Brett
De Hill

Offline 55chevr

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2013, 07:33:36 PM »
Doug,
Love your Forerunner. To all that posted information on the original question, which was about building a Forerunner, I thank you.   

Joe

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Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2013, 12:24:12 AM »
Randy,

The AMA is the entity which determines the safety of an item of equipment, If the handle and lines passes the pull test they are safe to use.

If this man wants to use a U-Reely, so be it.

De Hill




De,
Sorry but the AMA cannot determine the "safety" of anything, only establish "rules" and at the present time there are a lot of AMA rules that are WRONG!  We all know that!  n~

I do agree that if he wants to use a U-Reely he certainly can.  He can also hurt someone if he does...I hope that doesn't happen!
Once again...all we can do is Advise!!!

Randy Cuberly
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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2013, 06:33:37 AM »
Joe,

Nice Thread!!

Glad to see you back into CL after 25 years. I went back after 40 plus years. I actually started in the late 50's, when CL was really great!!

Joe, nice looking model the Forerunner, will you do a Build Thread?

I see Doug did great job with his Forerunner. Kudos!

Doug, I noticed you drilled holes in the doublers. Interesting. Did it pay off?

Joe, do you think you will follow Doug's lead with the drilling of holes in that area on your Forerunner?

I did the same thing to The LOSER, now named the Mig-3, and it did paid off with the removal of weight.
 
Doug, back lit you can see the how neat your holes were drilled, and what is your Forerunner covered with?

Good moments, nice looking model!!

Doug, nice handles also!!

Charles
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Offline Doug Knoyle

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Re: Re: Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2013, 01:05:24 PM »
Joe,

Nice Thread!!

Glad to see you back into CL after 25 years. I went back after 40 plus years. I actually started in the late 50's, when CL was really great!!
I was excited to see Joe start this thread - as just last year I pulled my Forerunner kit out of many years of storage and paired it with my old EZ-Just handle...

I see Doug did great job with his Forerunner. Kudos!
Thank you, but must give the building credit to my flying buddy Dave Denison. I did not have the time, so commissioned him to apply his magic.

Doug, I noticed you drilled holes in the doublers. Interesting. Did it pay off?
Yes. It looks cool when the light hits it right! LOL.  Seriously - this project was to serve as an electric test bed for us, so the front beam structure was modified for motor/battery mounting. In the end, the stiffness from the doubler was not needed, so it was a natural thought make the holes for cooling and a perceived need for weight reduction. After later testing we found that the extra cooling was not required and the holes in the covering were never completed.

Doug, back lit you can see the how neat your holes were drilled, and what is your Forerunner covered with?
Ultracote

Good moments, nice looking model!!
The mods were suggested during my research right after receiving the kit from Custom Models. A full inch added to the tail moment (wow!), larger flaps (no specifics were suggested) and unanimous voting for "46 not 40 power".

In the end:
- Added 1 inch to tail moment.
- Larger stiffer flaps (Kit stock too flimsy. Scratch built Denison-stiff version, full span stopping at tip).
- Redesigned and scratch-built tail targeted at Fancher tail volume numbers.
- Re-shaped fuse because I couldn't help it.
- Redesigned wing-tips.




Doug, nice handles also!!
That's a Denison handle that I haven't completed yet. The foam bicycle grip will be replaced with shaped wood, then covered with replaceable gauze tape. The next one will be based on this same Denison design, but in a nonadjustable one-piece version.
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Offline FLOYD CARTER

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #30 on: June 10, 2013, 02:41:26 PM »
I would not try a U-Reely on a large plane, with 10 lb of pull.  Smaller planes should be just fine. Let's see what a failure might do.  Plastic might fracture, etc., causing one line to suddenly get longer,  but the worst result would be a crashed plane.  How could a U-Reely cause a "fly-away" and resulting damage to people or property?  We all use safety thongs to prevent fly-away.

If the man wants to fly with a U-Reely, then let him!  I don't see any safety issue.

Floyd
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Offline Howard Rush

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #31 on: June 10, 2013, 03:19:59 PM »
Do add a tippler to the inside of the fuse.

I wouldn't let him fly, though, U-Reely or not.
The Jive Combat Team
Making combat and stunt great again

Offline 55chevr

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #32 on: June 10, 2013, 08:02:48 PM »
Not sure why the holes were drilled in Doug's Forerunner.  The kit I have has the tank location completely mortised thru the fuselage in that area.  The doubler which is 1/16" plywood is all that is on one side of the fuselage.  The other side is a wide open recess to hold the tank.  Emptying the box I see that I sheeted the wings and assembled the profile fuselage 20 plus years ago.  But that appears to be all I got accomplished then.   My flying partner in 1992 went off to play Junior Hockey in the Ontario Hockey League and there was no one to fly with.  We did very little control line then and just about everything we did was R/C as that was his big interest. From younger days just about all my planes were sans gear and required hand launching.  A problem I won't duplicate in the future.  I guess I could get my grand children to launch now if I fly some of the relics.


Joe
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Offline Doug Knoyle

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Re: Re: Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2013, 12:01:54 AM »
Not sure why the holes were drilled in Doug's Forerunner.
Joe, you must have missed my reply earlier in the thread.  We perceived a need for battery cooling and weight reduction, didn't need the added stiffness so drilled holes. Later testing proved the cooling wasn't needed so we never finished making holes in the covering.

The kit I have has the tank location completely mortised thru the fuselage in that area.  The doubler which is 1/16" plywood is all that is on one side of the fuselage.  

Joe
See pics in my last post ...mine is the same, just that the power-train is on the outside.

When do you think it will be ready to fly?
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Offline 55chevr

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #34 on: June 11, 2013, 05:23:22 AM »
I have to finish a motorcycle chassis for Bonneville first.  That will take 2 to 2-1/2 weeks.  I am sending the carburetor to Bob Reeves today.  I should have all the hardware required (accumulated over 50 years). This isn't a big building job and I will finish it with Monokote so I would think that it will be done by July 4th. Really looking forward to flying control line again.  I will probably fly an old Shoestring that I built in the 70-s with a Fox .29 on it just to refresh my skills this week after a 25 year layoff.  I really like  your color choice on your Forerunner.    Any concerns on control installation I should know about?


Joe
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Offline 55chevr

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #35 on: June 13, 2013, 08:25:02 PM »
Finally got into the box.  I started this fuselage 20 years ago. I found the brand new OS 40 FP that I bought to power it. 


Joe
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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #36 on: June 13, 2013, 11:45:39 PM »
Check out my post on the Cardinal controls in the ARF section for an alternative way to set up the bellcrank/elevator/flap linkage. If you try it, you will like it. 8)
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Offline Jim Thomerson

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #37 on: June 14, 2013, 07:11:28 AM »
 D>K  Old dogs can learn new tricks.  I flew counterclockwise starting in 1955.  At age 73 I taught myself to fly the Old Time Stunt pattern going clockwise.  Old dog can learn pretty much what old dog wants to learn.

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #38 on: June 14, 2013, 07:12:30 PM »
Jim - I will stick to what this old dog learned as a young pup ... counter clockwise.  I only go clockwise inverted.

Joe
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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #39 on: June 14, 2013, 07:32:54 PM »
Joe, The cool thing about this hobby is that whatever you want to do is cool. The main thing is to get out there and do it! We have been at the Brodak meet all week and having a blast. Home tomorrow and then I have to start prepping for the Maine meet. It will be coming up fast.  PRT

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #40 on: June 14, 2013, 07:46:09 PM »
I have a lot of welding to do on the ZX10 frame ... have to put the Forerunner on hold so I can complete the drag bike.  But I still hope to get something flying this weekend.  I have a Flite Streak with a Fox 35 on it and a Shoestring with a Fox 29 that should be able to fly.  Even a Voo Doo with a fox CS that I could fly.  All weather permitting.

Joe
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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #41 on: June 16, 2013, 09:31:26 AM »
Hi Joe, I'm a flyer out in Mastic. Where are you flying these days! We have 6 guys flying C/L at Defence Hill in Shoram. I don't know if it helps.---LOUIE

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #42 on: June 16, 2013, 12:08:14 PM »
Lou ... I was going to fly in Forest Park or the local school yard.   The school yard is on hold until I can get a 4 stroke ready.   I would love to fly with your crew - will PM for particulars.


Joe
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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #43 on: June 16, 2013, 04:02:48 PM »
I just realized that you were on LI.. Come fly with us in Flushing Meadows Park. Forest park is in bad shape with overhanging tree branches and uncut grass most of the time. The circle is small for the forerunner too. We have guys flying in flushing every weekend morning and a few days during the week. Next Sunday 6-23 is our fun fly from about 9am on. Stop in if you have some time. We would love to meet you or you may hook up with some old friends. Come early as the park parking fills up fast on the weekend.
William
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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #44 on: June 16, 2013, 05:11:01 PM »
The Forerunner is on hold until I finish a motorcycle project.    I do have a Flite Streak and a Shoestring ready to go for a 60' circle.   Well in this case ready means they were flown last 25 years ago.  I will try and start these old Fox engines this week.   I bought a couple of gallons of Sig 20% castor oil for these high hour relics.    Flushing Meadow Park looks like 4 circles from Google Earth ... I will try for Sunday- ...


Joe
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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #45 on: June 16, 2013, 05:45:55 PM »
Hope to see you there. Yes it is 4 circles and only about 5 minutes from forest park and actually closer for you. The forest park circles are rarely used anymore due to their poor condition and lack of space. I live right by forest park and pass that circle at least twice a day.
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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #46 on: June 16, 2013, 05:57:24 PM »
When do the week day flyers use the park?

Joe
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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #47 on: June 16, 2013, 06:41:39 PM »
Usually Mondays and Wednesdays,but after the 21st Im on vacation and will be using FMP almost every nice day till the Nats.
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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #48 on: June 26, 2013, 04:26:38 PM »
Today I was in the neighborhood so I stopped at Forest Park and checked out the old control line circle.   Black top is in fair shape but there are tree branches that overhang right at 60 from the center on one side.  The trees are encroaching from all around so the only you could fly here if you had lines set at 55' to 57'.   

Joe
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Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #49 on: June 26, 2013, 06:03:41 PM »
Little late to this thread.. Your Saito will pull that Fore Runner just fine I fly a 576 sq/in profile with one and it's competitive in Advanced. Don't think I need to say what Joe Gilbert has accomplished in Expert profile with his Saito 40 powered T-6.

I have to go with the don't use the Ureely group but you gotta do what you gotta do. After you get flying again get some 15's and a good handle just to try, I think you will be pleased with the results.

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #50 on: June 27, 2013, 03:52:40 PM »
Bob --- received the carb today ... looks really sharp.  I cant wait to fire this engine up.


Joe
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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #51 on: July 06, 2013, 07:38:37 PM »
 I got a chance to look at a lot of different control handles this morning at Flushing Meadow Park.  The outcry I incited about using a U-Reely was carried over there.  I saw a look at a dozen different handles courtesy of Neal and Ron.  Jose was subtle but spoke with authority.  I reviewed just about every handle available and all work well but don't feel right in my hand.  I decided to make my own.   I like the UR grip feel and angle.  I made a pattern from my UR handle and made it cable adjustable like my EZ Just.  I used a cable out of a bicycle brake line. Measures .060.  Monday I will get some ferrules from McMaster Carr and crimp the ends.   

Joe
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Offline De Hill

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #52 on: July 06, 2013, 08:19:42 PM »
I have some very old handles in my collection that look like yours.
De Hill

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #53 on: July 06, 2013, 09:27:56 PM »
Nothing new here.  I took component design from 2 successful handles. U-Reely grip, EZ Just type adjustable cable. Fits my hand perfectly.

Joe
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Offline William DeMauro

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #54 on: July 07, 2013, 06:19:08 AM »
Hi Joe,
Great meeting you yesterday. Your new handle looks good and should be a lot lighter than the u-really and give a better feel. For handle cable I'm using Type 302 Stainless Steel Wire Rope 7X19 Strand Core, 1/16" Dia, 480# Break Strength  http://www.mcmaster.com/#3458T75  I am using these sleeves Copper Oval Compression Sleeve for 1/16" Rope Diameter, 3/8" Sleeve Length   http://www.mcmaster.com/#3897T5  This cable is very flexible  If you can wait I'll be happy to give you a few sleeves and a piece of cable as I have plenty.
William
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Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #55 on: July 07, 2013, 07:10:46 AM »
Is the Forerunner still available? Who kits them? What are the basic specs? Is it classic legal?

Best,          DennisT

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #56 on: July 07, 2013, 07:23:37 AM »
Not currently in production. However, Walter Umland has it in the works using a built up wing;
http://builtrightflyright.com/New_Web_Pgs/kits/Forerunner/Forerunner.htm

Ultra Hobby Products has plans for standard and big sized;
 http://www.ultrahobbyproducts.com/Plans_List.html

Walt shows it as Nostalgia 30

Joe
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Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #57 on: July 08, 2013, 08:50:38 AM »
If anyone doubts what the Saito 40 will do Martin Quartim posted a video of a flight with a Saito 40 on a Pathfinder in the 4 stroke forum.

http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=31340.0

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #58 on: July 21, 2013, 07:59:45 PM »
I am going to finish building the original Customs Models Forerunner that I have and power it with a Saito 40.  I am also going to build another one from scratch that I will power with an electrical motor. I built the fuselage today and I knocked off some really nice engineering from Crist Rigotti's 570 Electric Profile, Keith Renecle's Protron profile and Doug Knoyle's Forerunner.  Ron Heckler and Will DeMauro got me going with the electrics. I have a wing out of Mustang Stunter that I am going to use in the electric.  Same chord and span as a Forerunner but the aspect ratio is a bit different based on the fuselage cut out.  Photos shows is roughed out on the drawing.  I added 1/2" to the nose to fit the battery pack and to keep it in proportion added 1-1/16" to the aft fuselage.
Joe Daly

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #59 on: July 21, 2013, 08:10:50 PM »
This photo shows the pattern I made from the original Forerunner Fuselage and then stretched it for electrics installation. The pattern is overlaying the build up. 
Joe Daly

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #60 on: July 21, 2013, 08:20:41 PM »
Battery and engine cutouts done.  The engine bearers - I used bass wood instead of maple for weight reduction. I weighed the IC fuse and it is 9.55 oz.  The ECL fuse weight is 5.70 oz.  I used 1/16" plywood for the doublers and 1/16" sheet to skin the rest.  Measures 5/8" thick nose to tail.

Joe
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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #61 on: July 21, 2013, 08:43:09 PM »
Cool project.
Crist
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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #62 on: July 21, 2013, 08:57:19 PM »
CR - I guess you can recognize that built up profile fuselage.   I liked the design you created on the 570 and used it.  Nice weight saving for a profile fuse.


Joe
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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #63 on: July 21, 2013, 08:58:57 PM »
No problem, glad I can be of some help.  It does build a good fuselage!
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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #64 on: July 24, 2013, 01:52:01 PM »
Built up the stab last night.  Used 1/4 x 1/4 sticks for the leading/trailing edges. Skinned it with 1/16".  Custom Models Forerunner used foam core for stab and 1/4" sheet for the elevators.  Planning on monokote hinges.

Joe
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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #65 on: July 27, 2013, 04:23:32 PM »
Went to Flushing Meadow Park this morning and flew the aged Mustang Stunter.  First time I ever flew it and it was surprisingly fast.  The more aged FP40 that I used in RC for a lot years and converted to a CL venturi ran raggedity.   With some help from the New York Stunt Team the engine got sorted out.  The muffler was loaded with crud and that was the chief cause.  I took the engine apart and cleaned in last month. Then ran it for just a few minutes. Hadn't been run in 20 years before last month.  Should have disassembled and cleaned the muffler then.  Second flight it ran well but pulls hard for a 40 sized ship.  I am still stiff in maneuvers.  I might be pushing too hard to get back in the groove of CL flying. Inside loops I am finishing too tight and the old MS just doesn't like it.  Plus it might have too much rudder offset. The plane doesn't groove as well as I well as I would like. If I pull some rudder out it might groove better. Will DeMauro and Ron Heckler critiqued the Forerunner fuselage and gave me a few suggestions on the electric set up.  The NYST is being very patient with me and they are very helpful getting the Mustang Stunter in flying condition.   

Joe
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Offline Doug Knoyle

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Re: Re: Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #66 on: July 27, 2013, 07:33:50 PM »
Built up the stab last night.  Used 1/4 x 1/4 sticks for the leading/trailing edges. Skinned it with 1/16".  Custom Models Forerunner used foam core for stab and 1/4" sheet for the elevators.  Planning on monokote hinges.

Joe
Hi Joe, this is lookin great. I used a standard sailplane hinge - 3M Tape).

My flyin buddy Dave Denison suggested it as he had been using them on everything for years with great results (R/C Pattern, C/L, Sailplanes). I have them on Sailplanes, but was skeptical until using them on my Forerunner ...they have been perfect. This is easier to install and more robust than Monokote hinges.


Cheers,
Doug
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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #67 on: July 27, 2013, 08:20:59 PM »
Doug- I will try the book binding 3M tape ... 

The Mustang Stunter weighs in at 61 ounces.  Not as heavy as it felt when I was flying it.   The 2 paint jobs added some to the airframe.


Joe
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Offline Doug Knoyle

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Re: Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #68 on: July 27, 2013, 09:56:41 PM »
Joe, that tape is on top only. I think I used it full width. I'll check.

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Re: Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #69 on: July 29, 2013, 10:10:56 AM »
Joe, the hinge tape is 1/2 inch on flaps and 1 inch on elevators.

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #70 on: July 29, 2013, 10:37:48 AM »
IIRC, Doug's Forerunner has the elevator and flap LE cut for surface hinge.  The pictures also seem to show this.  Book tape is very difficult to get into a "v" slot on both sides and still may not hold.  It would be a different load on the tape and hinge line.  It could be used to seal on one side, but there are thinner tapes for that.
Fred
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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #71 on: July 29, 2013, 09:31:55 PM »
Got the fuselage and wing assembled over the weekend.  Looks like a Forerunner with Mustang wing tips.   Monokoted the wing and elevators.  The wing had silkspan and a couple coats of clear on it when I got it.  I will have to run a "Woodpecker" over it and re-iron it to get the blisters out. Then paint the fuselage.  If I can get some time on it I could fly this thing on the weekend. 

Joe
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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #72 on: August 03, 2013, 01:03:42 PM »
Flew 2 flights this morning between the rains.  Weather never really cleared but it did stop raining long enough.   I met Will DeMauro and John at FMP and Will went through the charging sequence with my battery packs.  I had it close but they needed to be topped off. Brought the Honda 2000EU generator and it handled the Power Lab 8 just fine. Flies 5.2 second laps on 60' lines right off the initial setup that Ron Heckler and Will recommended.  It is a bit sensitive but it might be just a tad tail heavy.  I will move the motor forward and that should get it close.   John feels that the controls are a little too sensitive as they are probably on a 3" bellcrank.  Dunno as I took the wing out of a Mustang Stunter that I bought off EBay. Will move the horn positions and make a new handle with closer hard points.  Interesting part of the whole thing is I didn't have to clean the plane when I got home. 
Joe Daly

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #73 on: August 03, 2013, 03:48:21 PM »
Gee.  I remember watching Jim Walker fly with his U-Reely.  Seemed to do OK, but he didn't do the stunt pattern.

Floyd
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Offline Doug Knoyle

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Re: Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #74 on: August 03, 2013, 06:12:31 PM »
Joe, Fantastic! No matter how many times you hear about it, it is always the awakening to actually experience not having to clean your plane, quick and specific RPM changes, and the ever convenient 60 second test flight between adjusments.

Welcome to the future.

How do you like the hinges?

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #75 on: August 03, 2013, 07:03:24 PM »
Hinges worked well.  I think I need to move the CG forward a bit and take some control out.


Joe
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Re: Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #76 on: August 03, 2013, 07:28:19 PM »
General consensus is that electrics like the CG further forward than you would think. See the All Amped Up section for more on this.

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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Custom Models Forerunner
« Reply #77 on: August 04, 2013, 08:32:17 AM »
Fly over grass and you will have grass stains to clean.   Also during some times of the day I have had to clean bug carcuses off the leading edges of wing and stab. LL~ LL~  Anyway glad the plane is working for you. H^^
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