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Author Topic: Spirit of Saginaw lll project  (Read 14107 times)

Online John Miller

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Spirit of Saginaw lll project
« on: December 13, 2012, 09:58:10 AM »
I posted the beginning of this project in the open forum as a mystery design.

I thought it would better be presentedon this forum, so I'm including an update picture of where I'm at. H^^ H^^

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Offline Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach

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Re: Spirit of Saginaw lll project
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2012, 11:19:34 AM »
Thats so cool.  I wish that I could CAD.  Is this a flapless design?
Glenn Reach
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Online John Miller

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Re: Spirit of Saginaw lll project
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2012, 11:53:52 AM »
Thats so cool.  I wish that I could CAD.  Is this a flapless design?

Hi Glenn, Yes, it's a neat design, and is a flapped profile design. Cad working is a neat skill, but not totally necessary to enjoy these designs. I'm happy you are enjoying seeing this one as it develops.

Here's a link to what I believe is one of the easiest to learn CAD programs. You can download a full functioning demo version of the program. Spend some time playing with it and who knows, you might be suddenly working in the CAD environment. The nprogram seems to work seamlessly with AutoCAD which makes it very handy.

www.deltacad.com

Cheers
John
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 12:33:00 PM by John Miller »
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Offline Gary Mondry

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Re: Spirit of Saginaw lll project
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2012, 07:32:59 PM »
I'll enjoy watching this one.  I've had a set of plans for it since it first was published.  I'm still tempted to build one although the wing is kind of thin and pointy by today's standards.  Did you tweak the airfoil?  It looks a little better than my prints.

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Online John Miller

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Re: Spirit of Saginaw lll project
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2012, 09:32:23 PM »
I'm using an Eppler168 at 17%. over laid over the published plan, it's within a pencil width except at about the 15% area, where it's slightly wider, about 1 1/2 pencil width. I might be able to get it closer, if needed.

John
« Last Edit: December 14, 2012, 10:18:42 AM by John Miller »
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Online John Miller

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Re: Spirit of Saginaw lll project
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2012, 10:43:12 AM »
I decided that another look at the airfoil I was using, showed the needed a second look. The Eppler168 looks to be a great airfoil fom our use, but appears different enough, in the entry, that I cannot in good conscience use it with this design.

I've spent the last several days checking out several other airfoils that might be closer to what was used by the designer. I was really suprized when I over laid one of my favorite airfoils, the NA63A modified, and it matched the entry perfectly. Aft of the high point, it does have a slight bit more curve going back to the trailing edge, but, the difference is very small, lost in a pencil width in the days of hand drafting, only noticable with a computer.

I've now gotten the drawing to about the same condition, as I previosly posted. I'm posting the new work so you all can see how close the airfoil is to the original.

« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 08:29:35 AM by John Miller »
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Offline Dick Pacini

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Re: Spirit of Saginaw lll project
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2012, 12:49:44 PM »
Damn!  That's a good looking airplane! #^
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Offline Dick Pacini

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Re: Spirit of Saginaw lll project
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2012, 04:31:30 PM »
Having John Miller bestow his talents on the plans is like being blessed by the Pope. y1
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Spirit of Saginaw lll project
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2012, 05:06:03 PM »
I built one back in the 70s. Powered with an Enya 35. Flew well as I remember. I still have the plans (though they are glue covered and hacked but still usable)
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Offline proparc

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Re: Spirit of Saginaw lll project
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2012, 05:43:44 PM »
John
Clicked on your latest drawing and I just want to say that, that is some right purty stuff you got going on. I am currently working on a large RC pattern job, and I am busier than a one legged-you know the rest!!
Milton "Proparc" Graham

Offline Dick Pacini

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Re: Spirit of Saginaw lll project
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2012, 06:38:09 PM »
An interesting thing about the original; it was set up with an OS Max 35S from day one and flew many times like that.  Once I added the muffler, I lost the snappy turn, which was to be expected.  I drilled a small hole in the rear of the fuselage and wound a coil of solder around the end of the fuselage at the extreme end.  It took a couple of flights to determine how much solder was required.

Here, 40 years later, the original SS III is in two pieces in my basement, but that coil of solder is still in place.

I have spoken to John Miller about this and I said if I ever built another one, I would have a small weight box in the tail, just in case.  It would depend upon the powerplant selected.
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Online John Miller

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Re: Spirit of Saginaw lll project
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2012, 09:00:24 AM »
An interesting thing about the original; it was set up with an OS Max 35S from day one and flew many times like that.  Once I added the muffler, I lost the snappy turn, which was to be expected.  I drilled a small hole in the rear of the fuselage and wound a coil of solder around the end of the fuselage at the extreme end.  It took a couple of flights to determine how much solder was required.

Here, 40 years later, the original SS III is in two pieces in my basement, but that coil of solder is still in place.

I have spoken to John Miller about this and I said if I ever built another one, I would have a small weight box in the tail, just in case.  It would depend upon the powerplant selected.

I'm figuring that the most often seen engines in this particular model, will be that OS .35S, along with the newer, larger, OS .46LA, and the DS, B40 offerings from the Eastern European suppliers.

I'm attaching the latest showing where I'm at ths morning.

John
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Offline MarcusCordeiro

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Re: Spirit of Saginaw lll project
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2012, 12:16:02 PM »
Great work!!
Can I have a copy when you're finished? Please??? ;D ;D ;D
That is a very good looking model.

Marcus
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Online John Miller

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Re: Spirit of Saginaw lll project
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2013, 08:52:06 PM »
Greetings friends. I hope some of you are still interested in this project. I've gotten busy, so I've slowed down a bit, but, here's an update, and where I'm at today.

Cheers, John

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Offline Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach

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Re: Spirit of Saginaw lll project
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2013, 11:17:16 PM »
I am not a jet type guy, but man-o-man is this a sweet looking ship.  Nice CAD work too.  H^^
Glenn Reach
Westlock, Alberta
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Spirit of Saginaw lll project
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2013, 04:10:43 PM »
Hey, John!

Still working on plans or have you started cutting balsa?
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Spirit of Saginaw lll project
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2013, 09:06:19 PM »

 Looks very nice John. This design would look awesome done in silver with some cool '60's Air Force markings. y1
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Wayne Willey
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Offline Jeff Traxler

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Re: Spirit of Saginaw lll project
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2013, 08:02:51 PM »
John,How is this project coming? I just got a copy of the plans,article,and a few color shots of the original from Mr Pacini and plan to start building right away..It came out a few months before my 14th birthday and now 40 yrs later a childhood dream will come true. #^ #^ I'll check back,Trax
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Offline Dick Pacini

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Re: Spirit of Saginaw lll project
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2013, 10:05:33 PM »
I have been waiting too.  I certainly hope it becomes reality.  There is also a slim chance it might be kitted.
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Online John Miller

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Re: Spirit of Saginaw lll project
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2013, 10:56:36 PM »
Hi guys

I've managed to clean up a back log of drawing projects, and I've finished sheet 1, the fuselage drawing.  I expect to finish sheet 2, the wing drawing, over the weekend. I'm going to do a 3rd. sheet, the pattern sheet, that can double as the cut-file sheet useable for laser cutting the parts. I should have it all finished soon.

Dick, I'll be in contact with you to discuss a few items of interest, and have you look over the plans, to make sure they are correctly showing your design.

I'll post some some small .PDF views soon.

John
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Offline Jeff Traxler

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Re: Spirit of Saginaw lll project
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2013, 09:29:01 AM »
Hi Ty,My version will be electric and I have already started to doodle on the nose of the plans.I will try to post some pics when I get going.I don't wanna hijack John's thread but it looks like we have a common goal.Trax
If you wanna sing the blues(Fly Stunt) you gotta pay your dues and "I know it don't come easy"

Online John Miller

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Re: Spirit of Saginaw lll project
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2013, 01:44:12 PM »
Greetings fellow model airplane lovers.

Thanks for your patience while I worked through personal issues. I'm very close to finalizing the issues, and the drawings are so close to being finished.  I've sent full sized digital prints to Dick Pacini to check over. After he gives his blessing on the plans, I'll work up the Parts Pattern sheet that's usable for both hand, and laser cutting. At that point, the plans will be ready to be released.
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Offline Bill Little

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Re: Spirit of Saginaw lll project
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2013, 02:27:59 PM »
It's great to hear from you, Big John!  I hope you are really doing well.  Excellent drawings, as usual.

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Online John Miller

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Re: Spirit of Saginaw lll project
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2014, 10:38:14 AM »
I've received good news. John Brodak has the plans, and is getting close to finishing it up prior to release into his line of kits. He's asked about decals, and I'm working on these at this time.

I've exchanged Info with the designer, Dick Pacini concerning his preferences' regarding finishes, and decal  themes, that he felt would be best for the finished airframe. he prefers the following styles of decoration.

I'm looking for suggestions to help fill out the thinking. Here's were my thinking is at presently at.

In a private corporate jet finish the only needed decal That would possibly needed would be a title decal. Something like Spirit of Saginaw lll, or SS lll for the in board wing.

In the military, fighter, training role, I see a overall silver, olive drab, camouflaged , or one of many military style finishes. The Title Decal could be used with the addition of 50's through present military decal set.
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Offline Balsa Butcher

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Re: Spirit of Saginaw lll project
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2014, 11:22:25 AM »
I'd stay away from overall silver. Too hard a color for the average kit builder to get to look good. Go with a Navy white over grey scheme. Easier to duplicate and lends itself to the lines of this model. John already has suitable decals in his inventory (stars and bars etc). 8)
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Offline dennis lipsett

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Re: Spirit of Saginaw lll project
« Reply #25 on: January 05, 2014, 02:49:19 PM »
I'd stay away from overall silver. Too hard a color for the average kit builder to get to look good. Go with a Navy white over grey scheme. Easier to duplicate and lends itself to the lines of this model. John already has suitable decals in his inventory (stars and bars etc). 8)

If you have never seen Ultracote's burnished Aluminum you are in for a treat. Not chrome not the anemic junk that Monokote passes off as aluminum but stuff that looks like real burnished Aluminum. And it isn't like chrome Monokote that cannot be creased or mishandled or it breaks down and looks absolutely rotten.
It's so good that I bought enough to finish my next project.

Dennis

Offline Doug Burright

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Re: Spirit of Saginaw lll project
« Reply #26 on: January 05, 2014, 03:30:44 PM »
I'm curious...Why is the bellcrank positioned so the leadouts cross the pushrod?
I will build it. It's gonna be really difficult to find me with an ARF. I know every bit of my airplane!

Offline Balsa Butcher

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Re: Spirit of Saginaw lll project
« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2014, 04:03:36 PM »
Ultracote, good stuff, my favorite iron on covering. I was referring to a silver dope finish, guess I should have been more specific. 8)
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Offline Dick Pacini

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Re: Spirit of Saginaw lll project
« Reply #28 on: January 05, 2014, 06:08:56 PM »
I'm curious...Why is the bellcrank positioned so the leadouts cross the pushrod?

I believe you are referring to the reverse bellcrank, which is fairly popular.  It results in the down line being in the rearward leadout position, the purpose being to increase line tension in outside maneuvers.  The original design had a conventional bellcrank installation.  This change was done at the recommendation of John Miller, who did the CAD.  I believe the pushrod will stand clear of the leadouts.
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Offline DanielGelinas

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Re: Spirit of Saginaw lll project
« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2014, 07:25:36 PM »
I had a friend in the '70s who built and painted it silver. Fill sand paint, fill sand paint... HB~>
It turned out to be Beautiful y1 y1
If it is kitted by J.B., i will certainly get one. Its a beautiful plane! y1
-Daniel

Offline Doug Burright

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Re: Spirit of Saginaw lll project
« Reply #30 on: January 05, 2014, 09:10:17 PM »
Right, on the bellcrank, then.

 I have only done that on my "designs" when the elevator horn could not be on the bottom of the surface. That made the up line remain as the rear lead out.

 I made certain that there was no interference, too.

 Didn't cross my mind, that tension on outsides would benefit. Learn something new, everyday!
I will build it. It's gonna be really difficult to find me with an ARF. I know every bit of my airplane!

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Spirit of Saginaw lll project
« Reply #31 on: January 07, 2014, 09:44:41 PM »
Looks very nice John. This design would look awesome done in silver with some cool '60's Air Force markings. y1

 A suggestion above, and by coincidence, from one year and one day ago. ;D

 Could use grey too instead of silver, the builder can certainly make that decision.

 Either way just think 50's-60's jet fighter, something along those lines really would fit the design of this model very well. It would be cool to make the "Spirit of Saginaw" logo look like a military squadron logo too. It could look like the SAC logo or even the shape of the state of Michigan, with the wording around or across it. For schemes and badging a little Google searching or looking through books with photos of aircraft from that era should give plenty of ideas.
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Offline bruce cunningham

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Re: Spirit of Saginaw lll project
« Reply #32 on: February 05, 2014, 08:59:45 PM »
Any further updates on whether this will be kitted by Brodak and when it will be available?
Sure hope it happens. 

Best regards,
Bruce Cunningham

Online John Miller

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Re: Spirit of Saginaw lll project
« Reply #33 on: February 06, 2014, 01:28:54 PM »
Good news folks. Brodak is preparing the kit. It should be ready for building season next year. I received a prototype kit to build to check fits and such. All the major parts are laser cut except for the larger blocks.

I'm cleaning up the shop in preparation for the build. watch for the  build thread. H^^
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Offline Dick Pacini

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Re: Spirit of Saginaw lll project
« Reply #34 on: February 06, 2014, 01:58:47 PM »
Good news folks. Brodak is preparing the kit. It should be ready for building season next year. I received a prototype kit to build to check fits and such. All the major parts are laser cut except for the larger blocks.

I'm cleaning up the shop in preparation for the build. watch for the  build thread. H^^

John, please keep me posted on this.  #^
AMA 62221

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