How to decide if flying Open or Expert, perhaps both?

[Alex Becerril]

Which should be the factor/s to take the correct desicion either to fly expert or open?

[Randy Cuberly]

Alex,
I would suggest that if you consistently fly scores in the 500's, up to 550 or so and feel you have no chance of competeing at a top 20 or maybe top 10 level at the Nationals you should consider flying Expert.   if of course you want to see how you stack up against the very best then fly Open.  This is of course just my personal opinion. 
I'm sure there will be others.

Randy Cuberly

[Trostle]

As has been explained before on these threads, a competitor will not be allowed to fly in both, just like it is now prohibited to fly Open and and Advanced.

Keith

[Bill Little]

As has been explained before on these threads, a competitor will not be allowed to fly in both, just like it is now prohibited to fly Open and and Advanced.

Keith

I hope I am not wrong here, but I do not see anything which would disallow a pilot entering Open this year but then going to Expert the next year.

Alex, if a pilot has made Top 20 in Open then I think he/she should definitely fly Open.  Flying Expert after making the Top 20 would seem counter productive to me.  Unless there are mitigating circumstances such as illness, etc. which has really hampered the pilot.

Bill

[RandySmith]

Which should be the factor/s to take the correct desicion either to fly expert or open?

Alex 
You can fly either one that you choose, you have that choice, and it is up to you.

Randy

[Trostle]

Which should be the factor/s to take the correct desicion either to fly expert or open?

And there is another factor.  You can fly a non-BOM compliant airplane in the Expert category..  This can run the full range of such machines, from a hand-me-down, to a borrowed aircraft, to one custom built and given to you, to one that slips out of a cardboard box for $150, to a $4,000 masterpiece.

Keith

[Randy Cuberly]

And there is another factor.  You can fly a non-BOM compliant airplane in the Expert category..  This can run the full range of such machines, from a hand-me-down, to a borrowed aircraft, to one custom built and given to you, to one that slips out of a cardboard box for $150, to a $4,000 masterpiece.

Keith

Does this mean that no appearence points are awarded to anyone or just not to the BOM compliant airplanes?

Randy Cuberly

[Trostle]

Does this mean that no appearence points are awarded to anyone or just not to the BOM compliant airplanes?

Randy Cuberly

Randy,

Expert would be run IAW Expert/skill class rules.  If you built it, you get appearance points.  If you did not build it, no appearance points,  Also the same with Advanced.  Just because it is the Nats does not change anything.

Keith

[Randy Cuberly]

Randy,

Expert would be run IAW Expert/skill class rules.  If you built it, you get appearance points.  If you did not build it, no appearance points,  Also the same with Advanced.  Just because it is the Nats does not change anything.

Keith

Hi Keith,
Thanks, that's what I had understood from the conversations at the flying field, but began to wonder after all the negativity being tossed around about someone winning with a $4,000 purchased airplane.
I guess if someone can win at that level after giving up 15 to 20 points on each flight they deserve to do so.  Personally I doubt that will happen.
I suppose there will be some sandbaggers, there always is.

Randy Cuberly

PS:  Am I the only one that remembers hearing all these same doomsday arguments many years ago when the Advanced class was added to the Nationals format?

[Howard Rush]

Hey, I'm going for Expert.  I can seldom win a local contest in Expert where I come from, but unless somebody bags more sand than I, I can be Expert National Champion.  That'll show the folks back home.

[Robert Storick]

Hey, I'm going for Expert.  I can seldom win a local contest in Expert where I come from, but unless somebody bags more sand than I, I can be Expert National Champion.  That'll show the folks back home.

I'll Bet!!

[Trostle]

Hi Keith,

(Clip)

PS:  Am I the only one that remembers hearing all these same doomsday arguments many years ago when the Advanced class was added to the Nationals format?

No, you are not the only one.  PAMPA was organized at the 73 Nats.  PAMPA started running the Nats in 74 (as well as the Team Trials in 75). By the 75 Nats, we started the evolutionary process of changing the Nats format that eventually developed into the format we have now.  It was shortly after that when PAMPA skill classes were established as unofficial events in the rulebook, and then shortly after that came the call to schedule the skill classes (Advanced) at the Nats, even though it was still an unofficial event.  I was the ED for those first two Nats and the PAMPA president for those first 8 years when many of these decisions were being made.  I was strongly against the idea of skill classes at the NATS.  At that time, we did not have the large EC that PAMPA now has and we were able to operate with, could I say, a bit more autonomy than now.  I was using much the same arguments that we are now hearing.  (This would dilute the meaning of our sacred event, it would be a threat to the BOM rule, loss of entries, etc etc.)  At any rate, Wynn Paul and a handfull of others prevailed and we put Skill classes in the Nats schedule.  Guess what?  Participation grew and we did not kill the event in the process.  CLPA has been the strongest supported CL event at the Nats since PAMPA was organized in the mid 70's.  I think it only fair to give credit to my successors, particularly Ted Fancher, who really continued the the initiative to formalize procedures and pretty well locked in the present format.  Nevertheless, it all started in the mid 70's and there were naysayers and doomsday predictors then.  I was one of them.

I have recently written on these threads that my attitude then was that the purpose, the sole purpose, of the annual Nats was to determine the National Stunt Champion.  Now, and I hope most serious and concerned CLPA enthusiasts will agree that the Nats is much more than just flying to see who will become the National Stunt Champion.  When you realize the numbers of people involved with the Nats from the serious competitors, to the less than serious fliers who are there for the experience, to the various observers that are there for a wide variety of interests, to the incredible number of volunteers that it takes to run the Nats, --- well, indeed, the Nats is much more than just a process to determine who gets to have his name engraved on that Walker trophy. 

Keith

[Randy Cuberly]

Hey, I'm going for Expert.  I can seldom win a local contest in Expert where I come from, but unless somebody bags more sand than I, I can be Expert National Champion.  That'll show the folks back home.

Hey Howard,
Best of luck to you...I hope you do it.  There might be some surprises looming in there however!  There are a couple of old guys from other places besides CA that fly pretty good also.

Randy Cuberly

[Dave_Trible]

Well Howard,  At least you wouldn't have to carry a plane cross-country.  You could just have your park zone plastic electric stunter with vortex generators UPS'ed to the hotel.  As for me I'll be flying Masters (Ted is right, there needs to be more distinction  now) until they pry the handle from my cold bloody fingers. Good luck in Fargo!

Dave

[Shultzie]

LOL!
Just something to think about when considering which class one chooses to compete?
WHAT ARE YOUR GOALS?
Is it just to GLEAN AS MANY THROPHYS ,AWARDS AND HARDWARE? (Then stay were you are in the lower class events.)
HOWEVER!
Most competitors...in any kind of sport or event, stay where they feel the most comfortable...Friendship and good vibes from your peers have been priority #one at least for me.  (whether it be in toy airplanes on strings or kiddie kites on strings? )
IF WINNING IS THE ONLY GOAL!!!
"NOTHING BEATS "GOING TO THE "MOON-WALKER-HUNT-FANCHER-FITZEEE ETC. SCHOOL OF STUNT!

[Larry Fernandez]

Knowing that I woul'nt stand a snowballs chance in hell, I would still want to test my skills against the best. I will chose to fly in Open.

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

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