4-Strokes : Losing Popularity ?

[Robin_Holden]

Hi fellas from S.W.France.

Do I detect that 4-strokes are losing popularity in the U.S of A  ?

I ask this as there are so few posts on this my favourite site.

I've got a couple and love my Saito 56 [ the factory C/L version ] now it's sorted .

Robin .
Ex-pat Brit' in the Charente full of ex-pat Brits'  !

[Bob Reeves]

I'll give my opinion..

4 Strokes were never really main stream in the US, I believe this was because most that tried running a 4 stroke when they were the fad tried to apply what they knew about 2 strokes to the way they set up and ran a 4 stroke and it simply didn't work. Same exact thing I did when I first started playing with a Saito 30. I was running an 11-4 prop on 10-22 fuel (50% castor and 50% synthetic) using a metal tank with a fixed intake. I could see the potential but it was too inconstant to be viable in competition.

Being able to see what that little 30 was capable of when the stars were aligned right and I did get a diecent run gave me enough of an incentive to keep at it. With a little help from a couple guys in Dallas and many many test flights I was able to come up with a magic combination that works and works as well as anything else I've seen flying.

A few have seen my engines run and have either followed my directions on modifying the intake or paid me to do it for them and so far the feedback has been great. The next fad is electric which will result in 4 strokes taking another hit but a few of us will stick with them for various reasons.

On the positive side, a really good used Saito 56 or 62 can be had for $100.00 if you look hard enough. Even if you pay me $40.00 to mod the intake you will only have ~$150.00 in a power plant that can compete head to head with a $400.00 speciality engine and pipe set up. If you can do the intake mod yourself, you are home free...

http://www.tulsacl.com/SaitoCarb.html

http://www.tulsacl.com/ReverseSaito.html

[proparc]

I'll give my opinion..

followed my directions on modifying the intake or paid me to do it for them and so far the feedback has been great. The next fad is electric which will result in 4 strokes taking another hit but a few of us will stick with them for various reasons.

Even if you pay me $40.00 to mod the intake you will only have ~$150.00 in a power plant that can compete head to head with a $400.00 speciality engine and pipe set up.
http://www.tulsacl.com/SaitoCarb.html

http://www.tulsacl.com/ReverseSaito.html

Do what he says!

[proparc]

4 strokes were and still are very popular in Europe. They never caught on here Stateside. I believe the whole Chinese team is Saito. The 62 and 72 can go up against anything out there.

[Bill Little]

As long as I can live long enough (LOL!!) I will be trying the Saito .72.  I've been told the "big block" is the way to go with the 4 strokes so we will see!  (then I will be wondering what a .90 is like! )

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

[Gerald Schamp]

Like Bob said, I've been running an OS .26 4 stroke on a Ringmaster for three or four years and its a great combo. Had Bob Zambellie redo the carb  to a normal NVA set up and its a sweet running combo. Uses a perfect 2 ounce tank that I usually have to short tank to 1 1/2 ounces. Rev-Up 10x6 wide prop and 60 to 62 feet lines. Also running a Saito .40 with Pat Johinston carb conversion, almost the same as Bob Reeves conversion only done in plastic instead of aluminum, and it run fine. Is mounted on the orginal Profile Corsair that Brodak now sells. Great flying/running combination. Bob Reeves has hit the nail on the head with the side mounted or on a profile, works super great. Just picked up a couple more Saito .40's myself. Nex will be a Saito .56 or two.

Hats off to Bob Reeves and Bob Zambellie for working out all the quirks with these engines, so they are user friendly at least to me. 

[proparc]

Just want to remind everyone that you don't have to start out with the powerful 62 and VERY powerful 72. The Saito 40A is an absolute darling. It is without question my favorite motor-period. Everything you learn on the 40A will apply directly to it's bigger brethren. Hey, you want to learn 4 stroke valves, 4 stroke plugs, 4 stroke props. 4 stroke tanks, 4 stroke fuel, start with the 40A and work up. 

[Bill Little]

Just want to remind everyone that you don't have to start out with the powerful 62 and VERY powerful 72. The Saito 40A is an absolute darling. It is without question my favorite motor-period. Everything you learn on the 40A will apply directly to it's bigger brethren. Hey, you want to learn 4 stroke valves, 4 stroke plugs, 4 stroke props. 4 stroke tanks, 4 stroke fuel, start with the 40A and work up. 

Well, Milton, I would take your advice, but I already have a Saito .72 and the budget right now will not allow another 4 stroke purchase.

Thanks!
Bill

[proparc]

Well, Milton, I would take your advice, but I already have a Saito .72 and the budget right now will not allow another 4 stroke purchase.

Thanks!
Bill

That wasn't directed at you. That was for newbies. You know whats up.

[Steve Helmick]

The requirement for 20% + nitro is what made me choose to avoid 4 strokes. The 20% fuel would require me to use at least a 2 part automotive clearcoat, which I would prefer to avoid. Plus the price of nitro is just crazy.

I am wondering if there might not be another way around the problem of keeping the glowplug hot during the exhaust cycle. Perhaps something cheaper and less paint damaging could do the job? Maybe 1 to 10% Naptha? In fact, it was Gerald that showed me the usefulness of Naptha in cold weather starting! Thank you, Mr. Schamp! 

If I was to switch from 2-cycles, I'd go electric, for all the advantages it seems to have...no fiddling with nitro content for density altitude changes, run times, starting problems, fingers close to the prop, tachometer failures (mine has been acting weird), etc., etc. And of course, quieter and "greener". I am not convinced that electrics are ultimately safer...I think it's likely that somebody will eventually wander into the circle, due to the lack of noise and hence the sense of danger. Speed and mass is the same, so the potential for very serious injury is the same. I just hate rechargeable batteries...    Steve

[proparc]

The requirement for 20% + nitro is what made me choose to avoid 4 strokes.
Steve

I have never used 20% nitro,(except to experiment). That nonsense started with the Bradley Walker article on the Saito 72. 10% is the max I use in ALL of my motors 2 or 4 stroke. I don't get to eat caviar all the time, and neither does my motors. But I Never go below 20% oil in my engines-NEVER.

I have experimented with everything from 5% Nitro to 20% Nitro. And 10% always seemed to give me the best around running characteristics.

High nitro is an advantage in a 4 stroke, if you have a need for extended idling,(busy RC flightline). But what are you doing at a busy RC flightline, if you are flying control line stunt.

By the way, I've gotten good runs on my 72 with 5% nitro but, the break was a bit soft for me. Went back to 10%.

[Bob Reeves]

One has to do what works for them, I will not run anything except 20-20 because I've found it always works.

[SteveMoon]

OS 52 FS. In my opinion the best of the 4S motors. Very easy to run, very
smooth and very powerful. Once it is tuned to it's sweet spot touching the
needle valve is rarely necessary. As Bob said previously 20-20 fuel only.
I use a 11.75 x 5.5 3 blade Eather prop at about 9200 rpm.

I tried the newer OS 56 A, but the added power proved difficult to control
Even after adding head shims, while an improvement, I still had problems
with detonation.

Later, Steve

[proparc]

I tried the newer OS 56 A, but the added power proved difficult to control
Even after adding head shims, while an improvement, I still had problems
with detonation.

Later, Steve

I was wondering what was the upshot with you and the Alpha.

[Joe Yau]

4 strokes were and still are very popular in Europe. They never caught on here Stateside. I believe the whole Chinese team is Saito. The 62 and 72 can go up against anything out there.

Agreed,  I notice at the 2012 WC.. the Chinese Team member Han Xin Ping's (with the 4-stroke) 3rd flights score is very competitive to Jeri Vejmola's scores (3rd place) which is Electric powered.

1 B57 BURGER, Igor SVK 1020,30 1095,80 928,76 1057,76              1099,15 1086,75 1087,03........... 1093,09
2 B58 SCHREK, Alexander SVK 1018,70 1066,20 891,50 1017,26      1056,71 1043,56 1050,45 .......... 1053,58
3 B17 VEJMOLA, Jiri CZE 1012,23 1086,40 923,26 988,90               1021,43 1049,13 1040,11 ...........1044,62
4 B66 WALKER, Paul USA 981,70 1066,10 949,60 1012,46              1040,16 1041,38 1026,45............1040,77
5 B64 FITZGERALD, David USA 947,93 1046,56 839,66 1013,20       1025,33 1036,25 1032,85............1034,55
6 B13 HAN, Xin Ping CHN 957,76 1033,83 931,06 980,23                1019,75 1016,50 1046,06.............1032,90

[Bob Reeves]

Whole Chinese Team were using Saitos and as a team came in second to the USA..

[Bill Little]

Whole Chinese Team were using Saitos and as a team came in second to the USA..

At the 2004 WC's in Muncie I looked at "Ping's" Golden Knight .56.  It seems to me that the Chinese Team's 4S were the first I remember seeing fly along with the Beringer's.  I was impressed with Gilbert's Twin!  I believe it had two Saito .40s.........  AFAIK, Remi won his WC with a Saito .56.

There is no real reason that they never did achieve the popularity in the USA except for our love affair with the tuned pipe.

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

[proparc]

I was impressed with Gilbert's Twin!  I believe it had two Saito .40s.........  AFAIK, Remi won his WC with a Saito .56.

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

Gilbert's Caudron, had two "hopped up" Saito 40A's. One setup for reverse rotation, the other normal rotation. Both had hand carved props. Remi also used handcarved custom props on his Worlds winning Saito 56. Gilbert's Caudron used 1/8" aluminum horns to save weight.

Gilbert also placed second at a prior Worlds to I believe Han Ping, flying his Saito 56 powered Sukhoi 29. Most of the French team were also Saito powered,most notably Serge Delabarde with his Gilbert Sukhoi 29.

Nogome of Japan was also OS Max 4 stroke powered, before he switched to electric. He used to score higher in international competition with his 4 stroke.

[Bill Little]

Gilbert's Caudron, had two "hopped up" Saito 40A's. One setup for reverse rotation, the other normal rotation. Both had hand carved props. Remi also used handcarved custom props. Gilbert's Caudron used 1/8" aluminum horns to save weight.

I remember a discussion my son and Remi had about the hand craved props!   Ms. Beringer was very helpful, also.  I understand she can fly pretty good, too!

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

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