Author Topic: New Battery Storage (Read 4927 times)

Motorman · « **on:** January 25, 2016, 01:42:40 PM »

Got some new batteries and learned when they're new the internal resistance is high. First time you charge them the IR comes down to normal. So, not going to use them for months, should I charge them once or let them sit as new or does it matter?

Thanks,
MM

Dane Martin · « **Reply #1 on:** January 25, 2016, 01:54:50 PM »

Li-po batteries are shipped at a storage charge. It's not good to charge them and let them sit. If you can't use them now, don't charge them.

According to our friends at thunder power, the number one cause of puffy batteries is charging, and letting them sit too long between use. Thunder power is a local company here, and our club has a long relationship with them.

Motorman · « **Reply #2 on:** January 25, 2016, 04:23:17 PM »

Well of course I would charge it then discharge to the storage charge. My question was should I do that or let it sit until I use it in the spring.

MM

Dane Martin · « **Reply #3 on:** January 25, 2016, 04:37:57 PM »

I would let it sit as is. I can give TP a call and see what they say about it if you'd like

Motorman · « **Reply #4 on:** January 25, 2016, 08:41:04 PM »

It would be interesting to find out.

Thanks,
MM

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #5 on:** January 27, 2016, 06:28:52 PM »

Yes, charge them. Then discharge them to a storage charge. You have no idea when then were last charged and put into a storage state.

Repeat this about every 6 months to a year if you are keeping the batteries unused.

Phil

Target · « **Reply #6 on:** January 27, 2016, 09:43:06 PM »

Just plug it into the charger, and hit storage. My charger either charges, or discharges the battery, when set to "storage", depending on if the battery is charged or discharged.
R
Chris.

Dane Martin · « **Reply #7 on:** January 27, 2016, 10:46:26 PM »

Quote from: Phil Krankowski on January 27, 2016, 06:28:52 PM

Yes, charge them. Then discharge them to a storage charge. You have no idea when then were last charged and put into a storage state.

Repeat this about every 6 months to a year if you are keeping the batteries unused.

Phil

All true, but when you buy them new, they were never charged

Motorman · « **Reply #8 on:** February 07, 2016, 10:28:47 PM »

Quote from: Dane Martin on January 25, 2016, 04:37:57 PM

I would let it sit as is. I can give TP a call and see what they say about it if you'd like

Did you ever call them?

MM

Dane Martin · « **Reply #9 on:** February 07, 2016, 11:03:52 PM »

Sorry, i emailed them and forgot to post their reply. I'll get it up here

Dane Martin · « **Reply #10 on:** February 10, 2016, 09:28:53 AM »

We have two different manufactures headquarters here in town. Thunder power and Bioenno power ( formerly Haiyin) I'm getting info from both before i post the answer to see if we arrive at one conclusion. Thanks!

Dane Martin · « **Reply #11 on:** February 10, 2016, 10:31:36 AM »

Here's the conversation from Bioenno power:
Hello,

We are having a discussion and hoping your company can add some clarification. If a li-po battery is purchased new, what is the best way to store it before it gets used?

Also, after a battery is used, what is the best method to store it long term?

Thank you

Dane Martin

Las Vegas radio control club treasurer

Las Vegas Circle Burners safety officer

BP:The best way is to balance charge each of the batteries and store them at 50% of their capacity remaining. This can be achieved using a balance charger with status on it.

Me:Thank you for your reply.
Does this apply to new batteries before they are used?

BP:New batteries are usually provided at the 50% charge state. But if you wish you can certainly charge them up to full and then use the balance charger to bring them back down to the 50% state. Various balance chargers have that feature built in now where you can have it discharge down from full to 50%.

Me:So if I purchased a battery, and did not use it for 6 months, would the shipping charge be the best way to leave it?

BP:I would suggest cycling the battery every 6 weeks on the balance charger to maximize the lifespan and then have the charger set it back to the 50% for storage.

Motorman · « **Reply #12 on:** February 10, 2016, 05:15:07 PM »

That's interesting, guess I'm going flying in February.

Thanks,
MM

Dane Martin · « **Reply #13 on:** February 10, 2016, 05:27:13 PM »

Yes sir.
I'm still working on the thunder power interview! Stay tuned

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #14 on:** February 10, 2016, 06:53:47 PM »

More power cycling than I plan to do at least. My 4000 mah batteries (mis ship in my favor? I use one for my electric starter) that were previously cycled did not drop much voltage over the year, they were at storage charge in just a couple minutes.

Phil

Dane Martin · « **Reply #15 on:** February 15, 2016, 10:45:55 AM »

Message from thunder power:

Hey Dane

We ship the battery at storage voltage which is roughly 3.7-3.9 per cell, ideally you want to store the battery at 3.85 per cell for any storage long term or 2-3 days never leave battery charged for a long period of time, and when taking a battery out of storage you should always cycle it a few time before using it in the application.

Joe Yau · « **Reply #16 on:** February 15, 2016, 01:59:59 PM »

Quote from: Dane Martin on February 15, 2016, 10:45:55 AM

Message from thunder power:

Hey Dane

We ship the battery at storage voltage which is roughly 3.7-3.9 per cell, ideally you want to store the battery at 3.85 per cell for any storage long term or 2-3 days never leave battery charged for a long period of time, and when taking a battery out of storage you should always cycle it a few time before using it in the application.

Would you know what they mean by cycling it a few times? is it like get it fully charged follow by a discharge to 20%, and repeat? but then why not just put in a few flights..

Dane Martin · « **Reply #17 on:** February 15, 2016, 03:15:46 PM »

Quote from: Joe Yau on February 15, 2016, 01:59:59 PM

Would you know what they mean by cycling it a few times? is it like get it fully charged follow by a discharge to 20%, and repeat? but then why not just put in a few flights..

In our helicopters, we're running 12s 5000 packs from thunder power. A few guys here just baby the packs a few flights. That seems to work. I can certainly ask what level to discharge the pack to before recharge.

The pic is just for fun... Lol. I took that photo while flying. My friends thought i was a nut. But they also made fun of me for still flying with a flybar Heli..... Go figure!

Fred Underwood · « **Reply #18 on:** February 15, 2016, 04:28:48 PM »

Quote from: Joe Yau on February 15, 2016, 01:59:59 PM

Would you know what they mean by cycling it a few times? is it like get it fully charged follow by a discharge to 20%, and repeat? but then why not just put in a few flights..

From ThunderPower site on battery care. Note "First few Cycles," discharge in the 3 - 5 C (approximately 8 - 12 amps) range. It is easy on the battery for the first couple of cycles to charge to 4.1V and DC to about 3.75+V.

http://www.thunderpowerrc.com/core/media/media.nl?id=132007&c=1065743&h=8637782eee240ecb0782&whence=

Motorman · « **Reply #19 on:** February 15, 2016, 04:33:46 PM »

Still doesn't answer the OP.

MM

Dane Martin · « **Reply #20 on:** February 15, 2016, 05:03:03 PM »

Last reply from TP

Me:One more question... The cycling process you mention, what voltage are we discharging to after the charge? And I'm guessing two or three cycles should be fine?

Thanks again!

TP:Hey Dane

Yes 2-3 cycles and when cycling take the batteries back to storage voltage which is 3.8-3.9 per cell.

Dane Martin · « **Reply #21 on:** February 15, 2016, 05:04:52 PM »

Quote from: Motorman on February 15, 2016, 04:33:46 PM

Still doesn't answer the OP.

MM

Post #11, the last question and answer address specifically what was asked in the OP

Fred Underwood · « **Reply #22 on:** February 15, 2016, 05:48:34 PM »

My solution to new batteries was practical for my use. I was not sure whether the weather would cooperate with flying. Last thing I wasted to do was have good weather and un-cycled batteries. I soft cycled as noted above and then went to storage on the charger. I was ready when the weather was. If it had been many months, I might have done another soft cycle prior to use.

Joe Yau · « **Reply #23 on:** February 16, 2016, 10:52:07 AM »

Quote from: Fred Underwood on February 15, 2016, 04:28:48 PM

From ThunderPower site on battery care. Note "First few Cycles," discharge in the 3 - 5 C (approximately 8 - 12 amps) range. It is easy on the battery for the first couple of cycles to charge to 4.1V and DC to about 3.75+V.

http://www.thunderpowerrc.com/core/media/media.nl?id=132007&c=1065743&h=8637782eee240ecb0782&whence=

That might not be easy to do with my charger to discharge at 8 - 12amps rate. as it only discharge at .75 Amp. I guess I will have to use something like a couple of 12V light bulb in series to discharge the 5S batts.

Fred Underwood · « **Reply #24 on:** February 16, 2016, 11:13:50 AM »

I used a 12V computer fan with parallel 25Watt resistors on the fan screen. Each resistor about 22 ohm so, about 1 amp per resistor and about 25+ watts. The fan was needed for cooling at that load. I had the fan, so just added the resistors. Also resistance in series to adjust fan voltage/speed. It can be adjusted for 4-6 cell packs with a little variation in fan series reisitance. Since the voltage will vary, so will the amps with fixed resistance.

Minor problem is that you have to watch it as you can run the batteries too low, there is no cut off. You do however get used to a fairly constant discharge rate so easy to set a timer so that you don't get distracted.

Some charger allow for DC into a car battery at workable rates and through the charger for control. Of course the car battery has to be able to hold the load - be partially discharged.

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #25 on:** February 16, 2016, 11:34:06 AM »

Why not just set up a smaller ESC and bench a cheap motor, prop and all?

With a timer or a radio or servo tester the ESC will cut off at low voltage. I wouldn't get too far away from it though. There are also inexpensive battery alarms that can wake the dead just about.

Phil

Dean Pappas · « **Reply #26 on:** February 17, 2016, 07:27:36 PM »

Hi All,
If (and only if) you are going to use an ESC's low voltage cutoff as a safety shutoff for a discharge, please make sure to set the cutoff voltage as high as the ESC's menu will allow.
3.0V per cell is too low. Under light load, maybe 3.5V or 3.6V per cell is appropriate, and under 10C load maybe 3.4V is appropriate.
Dean Pappas