News:


  • April 19, 2024, 04:50:14 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Good starting motor/battery combo for a BIG stunter  (Read 3177 times)

Offline Mike Ferguson

  • AMA Member
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 282
Good starting motor/battery combo for a BIG stunter
« on: October 06, 2016, 08:51:12 AM »
Among other things, I've started construction of a 900 sq. inch stunt plane with a 75+ inch wingspan? The design rhymes with "beeper". Depending on battery weight, I would expect the all-up ready to fly weight to be somewhere in the ballpark of 80 oz. (hopefully lower, but trying to be conservative).

I haven't seen a setup listed for anything of a similar size, so I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts or recommendations for what might work best.


Offline Randy Powell

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 10478
  • TreeTop Flyer
Re: Good starting motor/battery combo for a BIG stunter
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2016, 03:06:49 PM »
Uh, Westinghouse motor and a car battery?
Member in good standing of P.I.S.T
(Politically Incorrect Stunt Team)
AMA 67711
 Randy Powell

Offline Keith Renecle

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 889
Re: Good starting motor/battery combo for a BIG stunter
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2016, 12:58:01 AM »
Hi Mike,

Randy is not far off! That is a big model for C/L, but certainly can be done. The standard rule for the motor size is to divide the all-up weight by 9.5 to 10 and then figure out the rpm/volt for your chosen prop. I'll stick to grams for the motor weight and your 80 oz = 2268 grams, so the motor needs to weigh around 220 to 250 grams. You would need a 6 cell lipo to keep the current down to a reasonable amount and I would think that it will be a 3000 to 3300 mAh 6S battery. You could use a 60 Amp esc because of the lower current from the 6 cell battery. The motor Kv would be around 600 to 650 so the Cobra 3525/12 with a Kv of 650 could work on a 13" prop.

It's an interesting project so keep us posted.

Keith R
Keith R

Offline Mike Ferguson

  • AMA Member
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 282
Re: Good starting motor/battery combo for a BIG stunter
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2016, 08:40:36 AM »
Thanks, Keith! That’s a tremendous help – I’ll use this as a starting point.
 
FWIW, I’ve been fascinated with Big Jim’s El-Jay since I first saw it as a kid in 1982. Granted, some of those memories may be through the rose-tinted lenses of youth, but I remember seeing some great flights out of various versions of the design built by Windy, Mike Rogers, and Craig Gunder. Yes, they looked too big on the lines, but I loved the impression they made … when they were flying right. And that was usually in dead calm, or a light breeze. In anything above that, the whip-up on them got crazy, with loops looking like a pencil – a rocketing line straight up, and then a line straight back down again!
 
Still, I always remember the good days I saw the design fly. Random musings years later led me to believe that while the design might be really good, the ST 60 engines that they all used were probably the worst possible choices for it. Not that they were lacking for power, but they had that old-school more pitch/4-2-4 break that didn’t help the whip-up. It occurred to me that a more suitable powerplant – a piped PA 75, maybe – along with fully adjustable controls, which the original models didn’t have, might work better. But I sort of shelved that idea and moved on to other things.
 
Reading about the electric motors used by the likes of Paul Walker and Igor Burger, though, got me thinking about the El-Jay again. And I think the accelerometer that their setups use might be even better than a piped engine for it.
 
I honestly don’t think an electric El-Jay is the next world-beater, or that it would be better than something like a Thunder Gazer or an Impact. I am curious to see how good it could be with a modern power system and adjustable controls, though, so I think it’s worth building one. And I’d like to see something that damn big on the end of the lines again.
 
I’ll keep folks posted as I move along on this project.

Offline jose modesto

  • 22 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 842
Re: Good starting motor/battery combo for a BIG stunter
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2016, 05:22:33 PM »
Mike. Are you building a sweeper or a BJ 900. Big Jim's name for that model
I still have the landing gear for windy's LJ900
There were four models with the high aspect ration wings
SJ= small 57"span. Max 35
LJ= Large Jim 63" span
Bj= Big Jim 72" span ST60
BJ 900. 76" span ST60
Jim damarel converted his LJ to electric. It flys real good now. It was not as god as a gas model.
Mike I'm with you on the power plant choice.
I built several LJ and BJ. They all suffered from whip up. I think the  E power system will be an improvement.
Got to talk with Creg Gunder this summer. We reminisce about those models.
I have Big Jim's LJ 46 in the basement.
I started building a model that I called the twenner 67 " span 800 sq. This model is the average of the pattern master and the BJ. I used the Plat 24-14 and the 30-14 with 5S-4000 77 oz.
hope this helps

I had all the parts from the 900 gave the model back to Jim's kept the landing gear.
The controls are specific to that model. I would only change to an elevator slider. It's real important to use the control system as designed  the flap root is over 4.5". The flaps moved 2/3 of elevator

Offline Mike Ferguson

  • AMA Member
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 282
Re: Good starting motor/battery combo for a BIG stunter
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2016, 07:23:51 AM »
I got the foam cores for the wing and the stab/elevator from Jim Damerell, along with the side view plans (thanks a million Jim, you’re the best!). In looking at the plans, it looks like the design I have is actually the 72” span BJ, which is fine – that’s plenty big for me. (I have vague plans for making it look like Windy’s Killer Bee or Black Sunday, but that’s still a while away while I start sheeting wings.)
 
For the controls, I plan on using a system that’ll let me easily adjust the flap/elevator ratio and the pushrod length. (In other words, a fairly typical Tom Morris system!) I plan on starting with the throws and ratios shown on the stock plans, but I’d really like some freedom to experiment from there and see what various changes make happen.
 
Thanks for the motor/battery combo suggestion. I’ll keep that in mind as well. Ideally I want to get this WAY under my estimated weight of 80 ounces all up with battery, but I’m trying to err on the extreme side of caution. Having never built anything remotely this big before, and not knowing exactly how much the battery for this monstrosity is going to weigh, I want to make sure if I make a guessimation mistake in my building that it’s “too heavy” and not “too light”.
 
Jose, if you could let me know the flap tip chord length for the 72” BJ, that would be awesome as well. That’s the only design “number” I’m missing.
 
I just ordered some wood from National Balsa, so I should start the build around Thanksgiving.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2016, 10:04:48 AM by Mike Ferguson »

Offline jose modesto

  • 22 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 842
Re: Good starting motor/battery combo for a BIG stunter
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2016, 01:02:12 PM »
Mike. can't wait to see this model. The flaps are 4.5" to 2.5".

My recommendation is to make the flaps removable and make 3 sets progressively smaller. This will allow control system changes.
You can't deflect that large of a flap in a one to one system. Air brakes and to much lift
That particular model was built in the 70 to 75 oz. the wing and flaps as designed made for large amount of lift with minimal drag. Whip up in the wind
Big Jim was always complaining about the models being built to light.  He called the BJ  a 51 size model. As the 60 with 6 inch pich was always to much speed.

Black Sunday was my favorite. I thought that one was destined for a Nats crown. Killer be was the replacement and it was in the top five.
I'm working on a new LJ the 63" span 630 si. With a platt 15 motor 5s power. Egor system

I'm with you about trying these models in electric. That may solve the wip up and allow these models to shine. In the wind I can't say.
I built 4 of these models and have two wings left to
a couple ofphotos 1) the design in the top five  Bob Baron with the LJ 63" span.Windy with the BJ 750"SI with his own look.
2) The Mig by Windy his first topfive model
3)The 900 and Black Sunday
4)Hank Forbes with the SJ osmax 35 57" span  
Keep us all posted
« Last Edit: November 13, 2016, 08:04:01 AM by jose modesto »


Advertise Here
Tags:
 


Advertise Here