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Author Topic: E Flite to Cobra  (Read 3545 times)

Online Motorman

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E Flite to Cobra
« on: June 14, 2015, 01:21:18 PM »
How do you figure which motors cross over? 600 Sq. In. wing, 4s 2500mah battery I want to switch from an E Flight Power 15 to a Cobra motor. Power 15 has 950 kv cobra 2826/12 has 750kv so it's too small?


Thanks,
MM

Offline William DeMauro

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Re: E Flite to Cobra
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2015, 06:49:21 PM »
Power 15 is roughly a 2820,3020 class motor then just match the kv closely. Cobra C-2820/12 at 970 kv is close enough. I have found that if they weigh almost the same that's another indicator that it will work. For example the  Cobra C-3510/20 at 1000kv will also work but its shorter and fatter so while power wise it will do the job it may not fit in many applications size wise therefor not a good drop in replacement in most cases.
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: E Flite to Cobra
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2015, 08:55:03 PM »
Motors of equal power handling capacity (rated power, or weight times some constant that I can't remember) will fly the same plane.

Motors of equal kV will respond the same to voltage at their terminals.

If you don't want to worry about changing batteries or ESC, match the kV and rated power (or weight).  If you want to, or don't mind, changing the battery count, then life is more complicated.  A 750kV motor is not "too small" compared to a 950kV motor, although it may turn too slowly with the same number of cells.
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Online Motorman

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Re: E Flite to Cobra
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2015, 09:40:25 PM »
All my batteries are 4 cell. Can you match them by watts? power 15 is 34a x 14.4v for 498watts and weights 152g but the Cobra is 590 watts at 138g. So that means the Cobra is more powerful and lighter?

Offline John Rist

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Re: E Flite to Cobra
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2017, 07:46:57 PM »
What size prop at what rpm do you want swing?
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Offline Jim Mynes

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Re: E Flite to Cobra
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2017, 06:07:05 AM »
Bumping this old thread.

Someone told me I need to use more rpm to better match my ESC. So that means if I'm changing motors anyway I should get a motor with less Kv right?

If I get less rpm per volt I'll have to program in more rpm?


MM

Thrust (watts) being the constant, a lower kv motor will swing a bigger prop at lower rpm.
A higher kv motor will swing a smaller prop at higher rpm.

If you're looking for more rpm, get a motor with higher kv and go to a smaller prop.

My fleet of electrics turn between 9k and 11k rpm. Not sure of the rpm you're trying to achieve, but I don't focus on that. I decide on the prop diameter I want based on plane size, then use a motor that will swing it. I think the Cobra 2820/12 would be a good choice for 600 sq in with an 11x6 or 12x6. Check amp draw with a watt meter to keep it within ESC specs, get a lap time, and adjust.

I don't claim to be an expert on this stuff, and this is free advice, therefore worth the price.
I have seen the light, and it’s powered by a lipo.

Offline John Rist

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Re: E Flite to Cobra
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2017, 10:05:35 AM »
I don't think the motors KV range affects the governing range.  All that matters is head room.  If your governor is set at 8900 rpm and your Power 12 has a KV of 950. your head room is the difference.  So 4 cell = 14.4 volts.  14.4 x 950 = 13600 rpm.  This gives a head room of 4700 rpm.  This is based on full voltage of a 4 cell battery.  You have voltage losses due to system resistance and the fact that battery voltage drops as it discharges.  The theoretical low voltage that can be tolerated is 9.37 volts or 9.37v x 950 KV = 8900 rpm.  Its not likely that a healthy 4 cell LiPo will drop this low so a 950 kv motor is a good match for a 4 cell set up. As I see it the only importance of The KV rating is to maintain head room.  The motors power ratting is what determines if it is capable to turn the desired prop at the governor's set RPM range.  In summery too low of a KV rating will not let the governor do it's job.  Too high of a KV rating will cause the motor to operate below it's max efficiency.

Hope this helps  :) 
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Offline John Rist

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Re: E Flite to Cobra
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2017, 10:27:36 AM »
The way I approach selecting a Cobra motor is to go to Innov8tive desing.  Under products, airplane motors is listed most of the airplane motors.  I am using there 2826/10 motor.  Once you pull up a motor on their web sight they have prop charts.  Props are rated for suitability.  Looking at this data, for a given motor, is how I determine if the motor will turn the size prop I want to use at the governor's RPM set point. The prop chart assumes no governing.  So a prop rated as marginal may work because at the lower RPM it requires less power. 

 
http://innov8tivedesigns.com/
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: E Flite to Cobra
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2017, 10:28:15 AM »
The prop is my own design 11.5 x 6 three blade and the rpm on the timer is set to 8900. I was told that rpm is at the bottom of the ESC governing range and it will dip below governing range on deceleration. I don't notice any problems when I'm flying but since I'm so close to the edge of that parameter I don't want to get a motor that will make it worse. I don't know if Kv relates to that problem or not but, I'm close to running out of battery so the low rpm really helps.

I tend to distrust "Somebody" -- you never know if they're a genius or an idiot, and they never answer their emails.

If it's truly a matter of the RPM being at the bottom of the ESC range, then the motor KV means nothing -- the RPM you need is determined by prop pitch and the airplane speed you need.  Now, if the battery/Kv/RPM combination means that the throttle setting is getting to the bottom of the range at which the ESC will govern, that's a different story -- but I can't ask "somebody" if that's the case, so I can't know.

What motor?
What ESC?
What battery?
What timer?
What's your set RPM?

Maybe there's a somebody here who knows and will actually use their name explaining the details.
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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Fred Underwood

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Re: E Flite to Cobra
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2017, 11:11:18 AM »
Hmmm, I think that I may be the somebody though I don't recall being asked this specific topic, and I do answer emails.

I seem to recall part of this conversation, based on the Castle ESC and my emails to Castle.  Using the Demo mode of the Castle, for control line and high governor, the optional desired head speed boxes will give a head speed/rpm corresponding to a given pulse width.  While the Head speed is not set in governor high, the rpm for a given pulse width is displayed.  That pulse width can be for timers allowing that method, and the rpm will be quite close.  A given rpm will also be noted to be too fast for governing or on the other end too slow for proper governing.  The best set RPM range for the ESC, according to my correspondence, is in the governing range as shown by the program.  If the timer system is active, the rpm may go above that range if the set rpm is close to limit.  Castle stated that when out of range, the  ESC would "attempt to run at the speed it is being told to, and if not possible, it would run at the closest range."  It was not entirely clear that for a brief bump up or down out of range, how much "governing" matters, as opposed to having the set rpm in range.

Playing with the demo mode and varying the KV didn't change the rpm to pulse width, but did change the governing range.

My take was that one could pick a prop to stay in the governed rpm range and that meant a slight tweak of pitch, seemingly possible with the custom self made prop.

This "somebody" hopefully doesn't fall in in the idiot category, and clearly not in genius :)



That discussion of Demo mode on the Castle ESC started here in reply 5

http://stunthanger.com/smf/gettin-all-amp'ed-up!/another-dog-another-'tric-fiorotti-v4-4-timer-with-accelerometer/msg482345/#new




« Last Edit: April 14, 2017, 11:47:25 AM by Fred Underwood »
Fred
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: E Flite to Cobra
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2017, 11:51:26 AM »
This "somebody" hopefully doesn't fall in in the idiot category, and clearly not in genius :)

If it's a question of what's actually out there, I defer to you.  If it's a question of how to design an ESC, then I'll probably claim precedence -- until you start designing ESCs.
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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline John Rist

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Re: E Flite to Cobra
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2017, 06:56:23 AM »
I have had very good results with the KR timer set up.  It may not be the ultimate for top level flyer but it is easy to set up and so far it has worked.  It works with most any ESC (cheep).  It doesn't require a computer or computer genius to set up.  The auto shut off works!  I have never burnt up anything due to a prop strike.  My personal opinion that for folks starting out, sport flying, and most competition it is the way to go.   :!
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