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Author Topic: Chargers  (Read 3071 times)

Offline BYU

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Chargers
« on: September 15, 2016, 08:25:40 AM »
I have tried the search function to track down the subject of Charger set ups but had no success.

This is likely a very simple for most of you but being a newbie I could use some guidance. I will be using 25 size motors and 4-6 cell packs.

I have this one right now but I believe it is probably not up to the job.

ElectriFly Triton2 EQ AC/DC Charger
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXVZA8&P=ML

I am looking for a complete solution and wondered if this would be a good place to start?

FMA PowerLab 8 charger -and RSP-1000-24 power supply

http://www.progressiverc.com/the-powerline-1000w-combo.html

Thanks for advice



« Last Edit: September 15, 2016, 06:00:04 PM by Bobs your Uncle »
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Chargers
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2016, 09:22:16 AM »
this is a VERY powerfull charging solution, but unless you are charging big big packs, like 5000mah 8S it may be overkill,
or if you plan on charging multiple packs at the same time using the Para board that the company (powerlab) sells, at which point you can charge 6 packs at a time...
this is comparable to the system I built up though my case is a little less robust,,,
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
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Offline BYU

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Re: Chargers
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2016, 09:36:14 AM »
this is a VERY powerfull charging solution, but unless you are charging big big packs, like 5000mah 8S it may be overkill,
or if you plan on charging multiple packs at the same time using the Para board that the company (powerlab) sells, at which point you can charge 6 packs at a time...
this is comparable to the system I built up though my case is a little less robust,,,

Thanks Mark

So smaller than the 1000w? It would be good to charge a few packs at a time if I can.

What do you use yourself?
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Chargers
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2016, 09:59:28 AM »
I use a Powerlab 8, the Para board balancing board, and a home brew server power supply setup that provides more watts than the 1340 the PL8 can use ( at 24 volts)

Prior to that I used two 200W chargers to charge one pack at a time on each charger...

http://www.usastore.revolectrix.com/Products_2/Cellpro-PowerLab-8-EC5-version_2/PL8_MPA-XH_Combo_207

This is what I bought,,
then I bought two server power supply units and wired them together ( following directions on RCU). The server supply units were about 30 bucks each I seem to recall

The two individual units I was using were AC/DC 200 W which would probably charge two packs of yours at a time. but with my packs, it was one pack at a time
of course charging multi packs requires some form of balancing board, I NEVER EVER EVEN ONCE charge my LiPo packs without balancing them,,
I cant recall the exact model of chargers I used,, they are at home,,

bottom line, buy the best charging system you can afford, it will pay for itself as you grow and progress through various iterations of power systems...

I did not , I started off with a fairly inexpensive charger, then stepped up , then stepped up again to the dual chargers, then finally bought the current PL8 setup,, wish I would have done it from the start, 
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
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Offline BYU

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Re: Chargers
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2016, 10:19:07 AM »
A huge thank you for your advice.

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Offline Motorman

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Re: Chargers
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2016, 11:45:04 AM »
http://www.progressiverc.com/icharger-306b.html Is the one to get and contact William DeMauro on this site for the 24v power supply.

MM

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Chargers
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2016, 12:00:46 PM »
It is not bad to buy small inexpensive charger, learn and then step up proper way with knowledge. You will know what you do and you will have backup (that is type of stuff which can fail time to time).

I charge on field and 250 to 300W charger is enough for me (iChrager 208), I do not feel I have to upgrade, just opposite I purchased smaller (206) for backup.

Offline Howard Rush

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Re: Chargers
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2016, 12:33:58 PM »
Amen on the server power supplies.  If you aren't electrical-minded, Will DeMauro used to wire them up for folks. He may still be doing this.

Edit: I see that Motorman already mentioned Will.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2016, 04:59:59 PM by Howard Rush »
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Online Fred Underwood

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Re: Chargers
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2016, 05:01:09 PM »


The two individual units I was using were AC/DC 200 W which would probably charge two packs of yours at a time. but with my packs, it was one pack at a time
of course charging multi packs requires some form of balancing board, I NEVER EVER EVEN ONCE charge my LiPo packs without balancing them,,


A little off point, but with a parallel board the individual cells are not really balanced.

The PL8 is also limited at 40 amps as I recall.  6 packs of 2700 mah @ 6.6 amps/pack will use the capacity and not approach the 1344 watt capacity.  22.2V x 40 amps is 888 watts.  To actually use full power it takes 8 cell packs being charges at 40 amps total, 8 x 4.2V x 40A is 1344 watts.  PL6 is also a great alternative.

I like and use the PL8, and at the field iCharger 206b, unless the field has AC supplied.  The field charge doesn't help to be high power unless you have a power source.  Similar to what Igor suggests.  The iChargers are economical great chargers and even the i206b is 20 amp capable and can run a parallel board, the i306 already noted.  See posts 40 and following here

http://stunthanger.com/smf/gettin-all-amp'ed-up!/battery-discharger/

If you like projects, you can find the container box and purchase the charger and power supplies and assemble a box for about 50 - 60% of that boxed power solution. Many box ideas on the RC Plane and Heli forums.  My version here reply 15

http://stunthanger.com/smf/gettin-all-amp'ed-up!/power-supplies/
Fred
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Offline Howard Rush

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Re: Chargers
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2016, 11:34:50 PM »
Fred's yellow box is cool.
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Offline Mike Alimov

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Re: Chargers
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2016, 06:57:36 AM »
Very timely discussion...
My old Triton just gave up the ghost, and I'm in the market for a new charger.  I have a 12V 47-Amp server DC power supply; should be enough voltage and current for our packs up to 5S-6S...

For starters, some good info and discussion here:
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=476431

A very useful site, and specifically on parallel charging:
http://www.tjinguytech.com/charging-how-tos/parallel-charging

So while it appears that parallel charging is very time-efficient (and cost-efficient, to some degree), you lose the "individual approach" to each pack, and only get averaged "back in the pack" numbers.  So far I've been charging each pack individually, and keeping a log.  How many of you do that, and is this information useful in the long term?
I'm also bothered by the question what happens if I get a bad cell in one of the packs (seen that before)- it will affect the charging cycle for all the packs being charged in parallel, and so the charging process has to be interrupted to figure out which pack went bad, and re-start the charge.  Worst case, is it possible for the bad cell to affect other packs in parallel - anyone had that happen?

So I'm torn between getting a iCharger 306 with a "squid" cable or getting something like a Hitec X4-80.  The Hitec X4-80 might be marginal for the  5S-6S packs (only 80 W per channel and only 4 channels at 1C rate), but it charges each pack individually and has USB port to dump/analyze data.  The iCharger 306 has enough juice to charge 6 packs (5S-6S) with a squid cable, but with all the limitations of the parallel setup discussed above.  Both cost about the same (if you shop around).

Also, it appears that many people have moved to higher rates of charging (like 2-3C, instead of the traditional 1C).  I understand that the more expensive packs allow that, while cheaper ones (Zippy Compact, for example) do not.  Haw many of you charge at more than 1C?

Any thoughts on getting a parallel charger setup vs. a quad?


Offline Motorman

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Re: Chargers
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2016, 09:41:39 AM »
My old Hyperions can charge at 6C and the new Thunderpower say 12C. I charge at 2C with no worries. I gang charge with the squid cables but storage charge one by one. icharger 306b buy one and done.

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Chargers
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2016, 11:06:18 AM »
I chArge my zippy compacts at 1.5 C
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Online Fred Underwood

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Re: Chargers
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2016, 11:45:37 AM »
As noted, parallel charging can hide some changes in the individual packs.  You can get a good idea of the pack at the end of a flight.  Look at the cells by putting a single battery on the charger or use a cell checker, many inexpensive available.  You can also look at cell voltage under discharge load to the pack and see if they are different and compare packs, see the battery discharger thread.  Finally, it is best to charge individual packs and balance, at least occasionally.  PowerLab and iChargers will also check internal resistance.

The Squids that I've seen advertised are cell count specific, at least for the balance connector, not power input.  So you can have separate balance connectors for 4, 5, and 6 cells if you use different packs, or use the parallel board.  The safest board is the MPA fused board.

http://www.progressiverc.com/fma-multi-port-safe-parallel-adapter-for-jst-xh-t-plug.html

I use that with the PL8 charger.  You can see the shielded power cord ends made to fit the PowerLab chargers. The shielding has to be removed, or worked around with adapters, to fit other chargers.  The shielding prevents shorting if a battery is on the board and you unplug from the charger - not a normal procedure, but could happen.

The Zippy Compacts, 6S 2700 25C discharge also say up to 5C charge.  Best for the batteries in most cases is 1C, for all brands.  That's my routine charge when at home and planned ahead.  I may use 2C at the field, and if a power source is available, not just my car, higher is ok.  If you want faster, look at the slow portion of charging, the finish at C/X where you can choose the x to be 5, 10, or 20 as usual numbers.  That is a slow top off for few mah.  C/5 will speed the process and work well unless you are using every last mah to finish a flilght and stay at 80%.

A reason to use 24V input instead of 12 is that the charger then doesn't have to step the voltage internally and use some of its power.  That also means a cooler charger.

Quad versus parallel - Unless you compare specifics, in general, the quads are not the quality of the iChargers and PowerLabs.


Fred's yellow box is cool.

Thanks Howard

Fred
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Offline BYU

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Re: Chargers
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2016, 06:05:47 PM »
A big thank you for all your advice.
Mark, WC Igor, the famous JCT, Mike, Fred and Motorman.

And Yes that Yellow Box is cool - what is it and where did you get it?
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Online Fred Underwood

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Re: Chargers
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2016, 09:19:02 PM »
Thanks, the box is Pelican Storm as below.  The Nalpack link auto opens in the thread if I put the full real link where the box is about $62.

www.nalpak.com/Pelican-Storm-iM2100

and similar

https://www.zoro.com/pelican-case-14-14-in-lx11-12-inwx6-12-ind-bl-im2100/i/G4786844/?gclid=CLeVlK3JycICFRSFfgod3n4AUQ

That's the smallest box I have seen used to pack 2 power supplies (24V), and 2 chargers and parallel boards.  Of course it is one off scratch built, so no real instructions.  There are several to be seen in various RC groups, mostly larger and more expensive.

If you get serious about building one, or similar, let me know and I can help with a few details and parts.  Figure the parts and space before any purchase as choice specific power supply can take too much room.

Fred
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Offline Howard Rush

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Re: Chargers
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2016, 09:36:40 PM »
Ha!  I wrote down the box part number last Saturday.
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