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Author Topic: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)  (Read 15106 times)

Offline Mark Scarborough

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bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« on: April 22, 2013, 10:56:13 PM »
Well, since its not in primer any longer,, and its now electric, I figured I should start a new topic and move it here..

for those who may want to backtrack, the link to the other thread is here

http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=8333.150

this picture is not all that great,, low light with my camera, but it shows the gear wheel well covers being fabbed,,

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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2013, 11:00:02 PM »
one additional note, not sure I have mentioned it previously, but the exhaust stacks are actually functional,, they vent the battery compartment,,
its pretty hard to show in a photo though,,
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2013, 09:32:43 AM »
Another artist at work.   I like it.
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2013, 01:36:27 PM »
Glad to see it will have gear doors. I was wondering.,
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2013, 01:41:47 PM »
Yeah, I did not have time to make them before I painted,, my window of oppurtunity for using the shop to paint was rather small and I ran out of time,,

but these are pretty easy to finish and paint in the corner,,

well they are not easy to make actually,, with the gear layout,, getting the doors to align with the direction of flight is going to be a trick,, they are large enough they could cause trim issues,, so I must be accurate,,
and make them removable, just in case,,
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2013, 05:16:37 PM »

 You're going to paint the exhaust stacks, right?
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2013, 05:20:46 PM »
You're going to paint the exhaust stacks, right?
what,, you dont think there are prototypes out there with yellow stacks?
man your picky,, I finally paint the thing and now you want to pick it apart LOL HB~>


how about some advice on how to insure the wheel well covers are aligned,, now that would help

oh and yeah,, I am going to paint the stacks,,  H^^
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2013, 05:47:27 PM »
how about some advice on how to insure the wheel well covers are aligned,, now that would help

You make those nifty trompe l'oell wing innards and you can't figure out how to align your wheel doors?

Painters.  Sheesh.

Two ways, just off the top of my head:

One: make a triangular dingus to set on the fuselage right about at the tail wheel, and exactly the slope and size of the wheel doors.  Clamp the wheel doors to a pair of stout balsa sticks (or paint sticks) extending back to the dingus, and attach them to the dingus.  That should let you arrange everything so that it's square and straight at your leisure.  Then use glue or solder or whatever you're scheming on to nail the wheel doors down to the landing gear legs.

Two: make a small rectangular dingus that sets on the doors.  When the fuselage is level both ways, and the dingus is level both ways, it'll hold the doors straight.
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2013, 06:11:19 PM »
how about some advice on how to insure the wheel well covers are aligned,, now that would help


 I'd just trust the 'ol eyeballs on the gear doors Mark. Kneel down and give it a good long stare from the nose. y1
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2013, 06:47:08 PM »
I'd just trust the 'ol eyeballs on the gear doors Mark. Kneel down and give it a good long stare from the nose. y1
Thats pretty much my game plan,, that and making them removable ( shile the struts stay attached) in case there is any question of misalignments,,
oh did I forget to mention that I am building up the gear legs too?
I must,, it simply would not look right with bare wire hanging out there,, I did resist getting Tim to machine me a working gear leg oleo strut though,,
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2013, 06:50:57 PM »
I did resist getting Tim to machine me a working gear leg oleo strut though,,

If you change the gear to that trademark BF-109 "we don't need no steenkin' beginner pilots" ground-loop inducing narrow track and splayed out wheels, I'll see what I can do.
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2013, 06:53:05 PM »
Thats pretty much what it is,, the exit location from the wing is 90% scale,, the gear angle is 85% scale,,
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2013, 06:56:48 PM »
Those axles on yours look distinctly level with the ground:

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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2013, 08:41:11 PM »
85% level.   ;D
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2013, 09:06:56 PM »
Tim,, first off, thats like what, a 3 view for an A model? I dont think they even made more than a few of those,, mine is an E model,, Emil,,,

as to the wheels not being angled,, yeah, well this coming from the guy with the Waix stunter,, riggghhhhttt,, LOL

its enough of a headache to get them to align with the wheels vertical,, and besides,, this is a stunter that kinda looks like a 109,, some some license is taken,, besides, hey, it would make it easier to make the gear,, less side loads on the axles,,

Randy,, you got it,, its 85%,,
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Offline Dennis Adamisin

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2013, 05:00:27 AM »
Looks GREAT Mark.  Happy to see you are finishing, and happy that you 'lectrified it.  I have also been setting up the new birds to use flow-through exhaust stacks.  The air outlet side is always harder to figure out..
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Offline Al Rabe

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2013, 08:03:33 AM »
Mark,

Just a suggestion for aligning wheels on a Semi-scale airplane which sits nose high.   When you launch, the airplane will pitch nose down to a level attitude.  This nose down pitch is accompanied with a gyroscopic yaw to the left, inside the circle.  You will get much better take offs if you align both wheels tilted slightly toward the inboard wing tip and launch with the nose slightly out.  the airplane will align as the tail comes up and the take off rolls and landing roll outs will be terrific.  all of my airplanes have been aligned this way since I finally cured a Mustang from running in on take off about  20 years ago.  Anyone who has seem my airplanes fly will confirm that my airplanes ground handling is exceptionally nice.

Al

Offline Andrew Borgogna

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2013, 08:46:05 AM »
Al
When you put a pusher prop on the motor and run it clockwise the yaw to the outside of the circle.  At least my All American did, it never once tried to come in on me.
Andy
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2013, 09:45:45 AM »
Mark,

Just a suggestion for aligning wheels on a Semi-scale airplane which sits nose high.   When you launch, the airplane will pitch nose down to a level attitude.  This nose down pitch is accompanied with a gyroscopic yaw to the left, inside the circle.  You will get much better take offs if you align both wheels tilted slightly toward the inboard wing tip and launch with the nose slightly out.  the airplane will align as the tail comes up and the take off rolls and landing roll outs will be terrific.  all of my airplanes have been aligned this way since I finally cured a Mustang from running in on take off about  20 years ago.  Anyone who has seem my airplanes fly will confirm that my airplanes ground handling is exceptionally nice.

Al

Al, thank you for your input,, It is truly appreciated.
My humble semi-scale certainly is not in the same league as your beautiful birds, but they were definitely an inspiration.
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Offline Al Rabe

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2013, 02:48:54 PM »
Andy,

I can only speak with authority what I routinely experience.  I don't run reverse props.  No need I have a movable rudder (Rabe rudder) and I simply dial in whatever line tension characteristics I need.  Good outsides overhead are no problem.  I just add extras right rudder on down elevator.  (So does Igor).

Al

Offline Andrew Borgogna

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2013, 11:59:57 PM »
Al
I have no doubt at all that your rudder design does exactly what you say it does.  I can't even say for certain that reversing the motor direction and installing a pusher prop will work as well as your rudder design.  What I can say is it will keep the plane from coming in on the pilot during take off and it does seem to help with line tension on maneuvers flown above 45 degrees.   Also it requires no mechanical change to the airplane to implement. 
Andy
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2013, 08:06:11 AM »
Well what works for one may not work for the next person.   I built and flew the Mustunt I with no modifications.   Won my first stunt trophy with it.   Now if it weren't so hard to get left hand engines I might try reverse pitch prop to see if there is a difference.   Anyway, lets keep having fun.
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Offline Andrew Borgogna

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2013, 09:41:16 AM »
Hi Doc
That's one of the beauties of electric, there are no right or left handed motor.  Electrics run equally well both clockwise and counterclockwise with the simple switching of any two of the three motor power leads.  The biggest problem with clockwise operation is finding the right pusher prop for the application.  This often leads to a lot of prop modification.  For the record I run all my motors clockwise unless I absolutely cannot find or make a prop that fits.
Andy
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Offline Howard Rush

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2013, 01:54:05 PM »
When you put a pusher prop on the motor and run it clockwise the yaw to the outside of the circle.  At least my All American did, it never once tried to come in on me.

All the more reason to ban electrics from Old Time.  You need that panic takeoff for authenticity with an All American. 
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Offline Dennis Adamisin

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2013, 07:50:13 PM »
All the more reason to ban electrics from Old Time.  You need that panic takeoff for authenticity with an All American.  

Naw, with a LH prop you can fly  it JUST the way deBolt did with the torque working for him.  MORE AUTHENTIC that way....

(sorry for my contribution to thread drift, but I still got PROPS to sell!)

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Offline MarcusCordeiro

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2013, 08:06:02 PM »
Hey

Where are the new pictures??
Have I said that ship looks awesome??

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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #26 on: April 26, 2013, 08:54:27 PM »
All the more reason to ban electrics from Old Time.  You need that panic takeoff for authenticity with an All American. 

 Right on Howard. y1
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2013, 08:11:32 AM »
Hey Mark, where are the flight reports??     

Now can you imagine what Old Time or even Classic be like if we had to build and fly the planes like the designer did it!!!
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2013, 08:53:46 PM »
Hey Mark, where are the flight reports??     

 Must be painting the gear doors. D>K ;D
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2013, 09:10:14 PM »
Yea, those gear door can take a lot of time.
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #30 on: April 27, 2013, 10:01:01 PM »
holy crap guys,, I painted it in two days,, really,, and your impatient,, by the way its still not flying weather here on the Palouse, well occasionally,,

Actually could not work on it today,, my RC club did a mall show today, I had it over there ( even with the bare wood gear doors),, it was fairly well recieved,,

tomorrow, on to the gear legs,,
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #31 on: April 27, 2013, 11:12:44 PM »
I know what you mean. I've been moving a bit slow on my own build. Hey, stuff takes time.
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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #32 on: May 11, 2013, 09:55:10 PM »
Is it soup yet?
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2013, 10:09:07 AM »
Nope, not quite,, but close
this final fidgety mounting of all the stuff, well its a pain,

I am glad I converted this plane over, but man, I hate myself for it too

It would be a lot simpler had it been an electric from the git go,,

I will be flying it this week,,
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Offline Paul Walker

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2013, 10:44:53 AM »
Flying it this week...

Yeah, maybe even in Deer Park!!!

I saw it last week (prior to being ready for flight). Looks great. I can't wait to see it fly.

Now get up here Mark!

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2013, 12:30:52 PM »
Paul,
thanks for the comments and confidence,, it looks like my schedule freed up some,, kind of a "forced vacation" so I may be ready before Thursday,,
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Offline RC Storick

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #36 on: May 12, 2013, 12:39:37 PM »
Lets see a picture of the whole model please
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #37 on: May 17, 2013, 12:00:40 PM »
short synopsis of my day at the Walker stunt ranch

new Eflight 25 ,, flew 3 two minute flights,, working on getting the wings level
Plane was making a funny ticking noise, tried to diagnose,,,funny but a glow airplane you would have never heard it

motor was growling, like a faulty bearing,, went to replace with back up motor( I picked up at B and b on the way there)
could NOT get the stupid collet to release finally after about 45 minutes we got it out, replaced motor,, the new one was much smoother,

flew more, still ticking but the motor was ok,, got wings level,, started doing some manuevers,, had to do a few flap tweaks,, ( by the way, If I ever talk about building a new plane without removable controls,, please just shoot me!)

started doing patterns,, was getting dialed in, then one takeoff snagged the prop and tipped the plane over  ( remember this)

got it back upright, reinstalled the prop ( go figure the stupid collet let the prop run away and came off the plane this time!!)
flew it, it was doing some weird stuff on the outsides,,
removed some tip weight flew again, weird stuff worse
decided it needed more flap, less elevator,, flipped it over and boom!! there is a crack mid-span on the elevator sheeting just outboard of the lift struts,, theory is,, when it flipped over, it stressed it and it just cracked while flying,,
so repairs to be made,, but I think it has potential,,
MANY thanks to Paul for his patience and willingness to work me through this,, I learned,,

I think the game plan will be to inlay several strips of carbon tow lenghtwise on the hingeline and leading edge, then radially several locations along the stab,, then finish with a strip of glass cloth,, then filll sand and feather,, repaint,
Not sure it will get painted before the regionals,, but maybe no one will turn it over eh?


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Offline RC Storick

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #38 on: May 17, 2013, 12:51:46 PM »
What a good looking model! Sorry about the stab. It should be not too hard to fix. How I would do it and this is just a suggestion. Drill a small hole at the crack ends. Carefully take a no 11 blade and force crack open slightly. Mix z poxy because its slow set and sandable. carefully fill crack. Let cure and sand a touch up. You will not be able to tell.
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Offline David_Stack

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #39 on: May 17, 2013, 02:03:04 PM »
Mark;

  Instead of carbon tow that can be somewhat 'messy' to work with, how about routing out channels of the appropriate width/depth, and inserting small diameter carbon rods so they are flush with the surface? 

  Just a thought...

r/
Dave

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #40 on: May 17, 2013, 08:33:50 PM »
well here is the repair in progress,,
I thank you for all your input,, it was taken into advisement

what I elected to do was to sand a shallow channel in the hingeline, and the leading edge sheeting,,
epoxied a strip of CF tow into the channel, and now I am sanding down the finish to overcoat the area with a layer of glass cloth to tie it all together,,

since its electric, once its structurally repaired I can prime it and keep flying it preparing for the regionals,, and work on the finish repairs in the evening ( or when its to windy to fly)
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Offline Rob Smith

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #41 on: May 18, 2013, 10:19:49 AM »
Mark brought the model over to my house. It looks better in person then the photos can detail! Now that it has a little nick it should fly beautifully.

Rob

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #42 on: May 18, 2013, 10:24:54 AM »
Well said,  it should fly even better now.   As far as turning the plane over, how many contests do you go to in which appearance jusges turn the plane over.   I remember a stalwart in stunt in the KCMo area was working on his plane getting ready for an upcoming meet.   I happened to see it inverted and asked if it was a new plane.   He said, no it is the same one he had been flying all year.   He also stated why spend all the time polishing the bottom if you don't see it on the ground.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #43 on: May 18, 2013, 10:26:34 AM »
Thanks Rob,,
now that it has its first "scratch",, ( though if YOU were flying it with the weird stuff it was doing,, not sure you would call it a scratch LOL) I can fly the pi$$ out of it,, its carboned, glassed and curing today,, will sand the glass smooth tonight and see how much additional work I need to do  beyond that,, I plan to fly it tomorrow again,,
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
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Offline MarcusCordeiro

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #44 on: May 18, 2013, 03:48:04 PM »
 #^ #^ #^ 8) 8)

Marcus
Live to fly, fly to live
Aces High!

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Action is his reward, look out
Here comes Marcus, man..."

Offline Randy Powell

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #45 on: May 21, 2013, 03:12:25 PM »
Mark,

The repair looks like it's coming along. Looks good. wish I could see it fly this weekend.
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #46 on: May 21, 2013, 03:24:41 PM »
its as done as it will get actually,,
just sprayed primer on it,,I dont think I have time to paint it or paint the wheel well covers either
so it will fly as is,,

by the way, did I mention it looks pretty cool in the air?

wish you were going to make it Randy, ya will be missed,,
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
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Offline Jeff Traxler

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #47 on: May 21, 2013, 08:32:36 PM »
Mark,It certainly looks good just sitting ;D ;D Very nice!!!!Trax
If you wanna sing the blues(Fly Stunt) you gotta pay your dues and "I know it don't come easy"

Offline eric david conley

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #48 on: May 22, 2013, 03:27:27 PM »
Mark,

Is that a "GreatPlanes" Nylon Spinner with aluminum back plate you have on the nose of the 109? I've been thinking about building another Bf109T1 for carrier and would like to use a spinner on the nose. Besides cutting off the front of the spinner I was thinking that I could do a little work on the aluminum back plate like contouring the holes to suck air through and blowing it at the motor. You have a very nice looking plane there and I hope to see at the NWR. Eric
Eric

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: bf 109 semi scale now electric ( and painted)
« Reply #49 on: May 22, 2013, 03:46:31 PM »
Eric,
that is indeed what it is,, I did think about airfoiling the backplate but have not. So far it seems to be cooling well. When I test flew it, It was about 70 degrees and I had no issues,,
thanks for the comments, it will be in Eugene,, no garauntees on how long it will live LOL
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
EXILED IN PULLMAN WA
AMA 842137


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