Author Topic: NIB 45 year old engine (Read 3231 times)

Steve Thornton · « **on:** May 25, 2016, 12:04:31 AM »

I have a 45 couple of 45 year and older engines, NIB, that belonged to my uncle. One is almost seized and the other is very hard to turn. Like Forest Gump, "I am not a smart man, but I do know not to force that motor!" One is a G-21 Super Tigre 46 and the other is an Enya 60III, both with venturies installed and carbs in the boxes. Does anyone have some good rules of thumb for preparing a new engine prior to breaking it in? I'm not sure I will ever use the Enya as I have no idea whether it's a good stunt motor or not, but I would like to get it into good shape and run it.
Any recommends would be appreciated,
Steve

Air Ministry . · « **Reply #1 on:** May 25, 2016, 12:41:11 AM »

youd likely wreck the 46 unless you get someone to strip it , the gudgeons likely froze .

Sell it on ebay & retire on the proceeds .

if the Enyas a 6001 ?? pre schneurle , a lot of people like them for stunt .

BillP · « **Reply #2 on:** May 25, 2016, 08:30:05 AM »

It sounds like neither one is totally seized so they should be easy to free up. Filing them with glow fuel and carefully rocking the prop shaft might do it. Heat is another good way. I would take the glow plugs out and cook on low heat overnight in a crock pot with straight antifreeze. Some people use heat guns and others bake in ovens. Since they aren't totally locked up I wouldn't worry too much about damage.

bob whitney · « **Reply #3 on:** May 25, 2016, 09:35:08 AM »

Bad Bad Bad, dont run either one of them until they have been taken apart ,cleaned and freed up. i have been restoring some older super tigre's for a friend
on almost every one of them the wrist pin ( Gudgeon pin ) was frozen to the rod ,and at least one of the rings were frozen to the piston .the bearings were full of gummed up caster and on the bushing engines .both crank and bushing had to be scrubbed . the hard part is getting the wrist pin free , i found that after i got the sleeve out i could turn the engine up side down ,fill the piston with Dawn Platinum ,then with a thin flat screwdriver carefully work the rod back and forth . once it moves it frees up quickly if u dint do this ,the pin being frozen to the rod all the wear will be on the piston and will very shortly wear out the piston. be sure to take the needle valve Assembly apart and make sure there is no junk in there also

Gerald Arana · « **Reply #4 on:** May 25, 2016, 09:37:02 AM »

Quote from: Steve Thornton on May 25, 2016, 12:04:31 AM

I have a 45 couple of 45 year and older engines, NIB, that belonged to my uncle. One is almost seized and the other is very hard to turn. Like Forest Gump, "I am not a smart man, but I do know not to force that motor!" One is a G-21 Super Tigre 46 and the other is an Enya 60III, both with venturies installed and carbs in the boxes. Does anyone have some good rules of thumb for preparing a new engine prior to breaking it in? I'm not sure I will ever use the Enya as I have no idea whether it's a good stunt motor or not, but I would like to get it into good shape and run it.
Any recommends would be appreciated,
Steve

Steve,
That Enya 60 III is a very good stunt engine. If it has the dimples in the exhaust, it can be drilled out, relieved on the back side (to accept bolts) and fitted with an OS 3030 (or 843) muffler. I've had this done four times and all are great running stunt engines. Had one in an ARF Strega that flew very well for me. Even started without a battery one hot day in Woodland...........

Good luck, Jerry

PS: The crock pot is the cats meow!

Gerald Arana · « **Reply #5 on:** May 25, 2016, 09:44:20 AM »

Quote from: bob whitney on May 25, 2016, 09:35:08 AM

Bad Bad Bad, dont run either one of them until they have been taken apart ,cleaned and freed up. i have been restoring some older super tigre's for a friend
on almost every one of them the wrist pin ( Gudgeon pin ) was frozen to the rod ,and at least one of the rings were frozen to the piston .the bearings were full of gummed up caster and on the bushing engines .both crank and bushing had to be scrubbed . the hard part is getting the wrist pin free , i found that after i got the sleeve out i could turn the engine up side down ,fill the piston with Dawn Platinum ,then with a thin flat screwdriver carefully work the rod back and forth . once it moves it frees up quickly if u dint do this ,the pin being frozen to the rod all the wear will be on the piston and will very shortly wear out the piston. be sure to take the needle valve Assembly apart and make sure there is no junk in there also

Two things you can do to free the wrist pin.
1) After you've taken the head and back plate off, put it in the oven and heat it up to 300 deg. for 15 minutes. Then with an oven mitt, remove it and start working on moving the wrist pin. Once it is moving oil it! Then when you disassemble it, it will come out easily...........in most cases.

2) Use a torch directly on the pin. I should say "Carefully" use a tor.....

Good luck, (and yes I've used both methods), Jerry

Chris Wilson · « **Reply #6 on:** May 25, 2016, 04:12:47 PM »

Hi Steve,
you seem to be admitting a level of ignorance here (and believe me I know the concept quite well), and that is good.
So what worries me is are you actually comfortable in dissembling and reassembling an engine that has issues and could quite possibly need a new (home made) backplate gasket?
Are the rings stuck as well? How are the bearings, at all rusted?

Perhaps you could be well advised to seek out a club and I am certain that there would be no lack of physical help available.
Watch and learn, store the knowledge for the next attempt - not the initial one since these engines obviously have sentimental value attached to them.

Good luck.

Brian Hampton · « **Reply #7 on:** May 25, 2016, 08:36:49 PM »

As others have said, the Enya would be a very good stunt engine. It's a model 7033 but there were two versions. The 60-III had twin rings and usually the exhaust port was drilled to accept an exhaust baffle for RC but the CL version was undrilled. The later 60-IIIB had a single ring with undrilled exhaust but quite a few internal changes. For freeing up gunky bits I've always used acetone.

BillP · « **Reply #8 on:** May 27, 2016, 11:06:58 AM »

Quote from: Gerald Arana on May 25, 2016, 09:44:20 AM

Two things you can do to free the wrist pin.
1) After you've taken the head and back plate off, put it in the oven and heat it up to 300 deg. for 15 minutes. Then with an oven mitt, remove it and start working on moving the wrist pin. Once it is moving oil it! Then when you disassemble it, it will come out easily...........in most cases.

2) Use a torch directly on the pin. I should say "Carefully" use a tor.....

Good luck, (and yes I've used both methods), Jerry

Yep, heat is the easiest and least destructive way to free stuck engines...pistons, rings, wrist pins, cranks, bushings, bearings etc. It works when chemicals and fiddling on the bench doesn't...whether they are rusted or just locked up from hard castor. For rusted/pitted engines I cycle them between the hot crock pot and freezer a few times. Cook until free, then take them apart. Even nos bearings stored that long (unless the engine was stored totally submerged in oil) are likely to be pitted enough to shorten their life quickly if not changed.

Fredvon4 · « **Reply #9 on:** May 27, 2016, 01:13:13 PM »

I had bought a few used engines off e-bay and once freed with heat and 91% alcohol seemed to have bad bearings (notchy)

Also, here on the net I learned about upper rod end stuck....

I found and ordered Boca bearings, some reproduction laser cut case gaskets and went to town....

Yes the grudgeon pin / upper rod pin and con rod were stuck. Heat and physical slide in and out, flush with brake cleaner, and lightly oiled fixed that... after removing the bearings and replacing I looked at the original bearing with a 10x loop and found the notchy was just gummed up crud...probably congealed castor oil

From this experience I decided to always check and free the con rod and inspect the bearings out of case before the expense of new bearings

Steve Thornton · « **Reply #10 on:** May 27, 2016, 11:31:35 PM »

Quote from: Chris Wilson on May 25, 2016, 04:12:47 PM

Hi Steve,
you seem to be admitting a level of ignorance here (and believe me I know the concept quite well), and that is good.
So what worries me is are you actually comfortable in dissembling and reassembling an engine that has issues and could quite possibly need a new (home made) backplate gasket?
Are the rings stuck as well? How are the bearings, at all rusted?

Perhaps you could be well advised to seek out a club and I am certain that there would be no lack of physical help available.
Watch and learn, store the knowledge for the next attempt - not the initial one since these engines obviously have sentimental value attached to them.

Good luck.

You are exactly right Chris...I have used the crock pot on a couple of Fox engines but I am not going to attack ringed engines with mechanical bearings of this quality and personal value. Lots of very good advice here and I have gotten some offers to get them clean and up to standards. I intend to leave the fine engines to expert hands. I'm sure some of the engine guys in my club are willing to help, I just need to find the time to impose.
thanks again guys,
Steve

Motorman · « **Reply #11 on:** May 28, 2016, 04:24:55 PM »

If they are truely NIB then all they have is dried cosmoline in them. Put your oven on the lowest setting usually 250 and let warm for 20 minutes. I'd be surprised if they don't loosen right up. If they've been run once different story but you'll smell the castor in the oven.

MM

Gerald Arana · « **Reply #12 on:** May 28, 2016, 05:27:28 PM »

Quote from: Motorman on May 28, 2016, 04:24:55 PM

If they are truely NIB then all they have is dried cosmoline in them. Put your oven on the lowest setting usually 250 and let warm for 20 minutes. I'd be surprised if they don't loosen right up. If they've been run once different story but you'll smell the castor in the oven.

MM

Right on MM!

And if your wife is like my wife she'll say "What's that smell?" and you know the engine is freed up!

Jerry

PS: Ahhhh, I love the smell of burnt castor.

Author Topic: NIB 45 year old engine (Read 3231 times)

Steve Thornton

NIB 45 year old engine

Air Ministry .

Re: NIB 45 year old engine

BillP

Re: NIB 45 year old engine

bob whitney

Re: NIB 45 year old engine

Gerald Arana

Re: NIB 45 year old engine

Gerald Arana

Re: NIB 45 year old engine

Chris Wilson

Re: NIB 45 year old engine

Brian Hampton

Re: NIB 45 year old engine

BillP

Re: NIB 45 year old engine

Fredvon4

Re: NIB 45 year old engine

Steve Thornton

Re: NIB 45 year old engine

Motorman

Re: NIB 45 year old engine

Gerald Arana

Re: NIB 45 year old engine