News:


  • April 23, 2024, 05:37:57 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Can you use a Venturi to large even with pressure?  (Read 2363 times)

Offline Dennis Toth

  • 2020 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 4226
Can you use a Venturi to large even with pressure?
« on: November 14, 2015, 08:55:20 AM »
Guys,
A question came up about the largest size venturi that can be used to get a engine to run consistent. If you run crankcase pressure can you actually have a venturi that is to big for the engine (say a 40) to run solid even if you have solid fuel supply to the spraybar?

Best,       DennisT

Offline Tim Wescott

  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 12808
Re: Can you use a Venturi to large even with pressure?
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2015, 09:00:27 AM »
Define "solid".  Combat and speed planes get "solid" runs all the time with humongous venturies and pressure systems.  At least, they get solid runs in a screaming-fast sort of way.

For a stunt run you want the engine to be running somewhere close to it's maximum torque rather than it's maximum power, because you want it to self regulate, or better yet, you want it to actually go faster the heavier it's loaded.  You don't get that from a wide open venturi and a pressure system.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline bob whitney

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 2248
Re: Can you use a Venturi to large even with pressure?
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2015, 11:23:00 AM »


 when u can see fuel spraying back out of the venturi it is too big and can cause erratic running, even on pressure

use a tac and enlarge in small steps until u no longer get an RPM increase

my mouse 2 Cyclon .049 on my venturi and on suction turns 28,000, the same as the same engine with the standard  bigger venturi on pressure and it runs steadier.
rad racer

Offline Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 13736
Re: Can you use a Venturi to large even with pressure?
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2015, 02:34:56 PM »
Guys,
A question came up about the largest size venturi that can be used to get a engine to run consistent. If you run crankcase pressure can you actually have a venturi that is to big for the engine (say a 40) to run solid even if you have solid fuel supply to the spraybar?

  Of course. The more you count on the pressure and not the suction, the more touchy everything gets.

     Brett

Offline Brian Hampton

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 577
Re: Can you use a Venturi to large even with pressure?
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2015, 06:54:37 PM »
There have been a few engines that had a wide open intake called a "bathtub" intake because of its shape. The Enya 29-IIIB Special was one and I think there was a Fox that was similar. Obviously these had no venturi effect at all so had to be run on pressure. Untimed pressure is really all that's necessary but needle setting is quite critical even with a fairly fine needle because untimed pressure is something on the order of 1.5psi. Timed pressure is much worse because it's around 6psi making the needle VERY critical. As far as having an intake too big, there has to be a point where the crankshaft opening becomes the limiting factor in the volume of air admitted into the crankcase.

Offline Air Ministry .

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 4985
Re: Can you use a Venturi to large even with pressure?
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2015, 07:20:24 PM »
The 21/40s run good on the 9mm intake ( G-15 late - 21/35 intake ) with crankcase pressure . Sound menacing on a 11 x 4 unmuffled .

Offline Motorman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 3260
Re: Can you use a Venturi to large even with pressure?
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2015, 09:49:44 PM »
Crankshaft hole + 20% is optimum.


MM

Offline RknRusty

  • 2019 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2689
    • My Tube channel
Re: Can you use a Venturi to large even with pressure?
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2015, 09:54:26 PM »
The Cox Tee Dee .049 is an engine that thrives on a pressure bladder made from small surgical tubing and a fine(128tpi) needle valve. NVs, Tubing, fittings, barbed tips for Luer Lock fueling syringes, etc. can be purchased from Hank Nystrom at Texastimers.com. All of these parts work equally well with Norvel, Cox and all other engines that are capable of high output. Larger engines like a .25 may benefit from larger heavier bladder tubing. For these, the "Redcaps" used to seal caulking tubes make good bladders. In earlier bladder days, fountain-pen bladders and baby pacifiers were widely used too.

Boring out the Tee Dee venturi works only when the engine rpm is expected to go over 20,000. For this I would never go wider than a 5x3 Going up to .140" I.D. is the widely accepted number for the TD. A 9/64" drill bit will get you in that area. The late Joe Klause's K/K pressurised venturi's went as high as .150", but to answer your question(at least for TD .049s), larger bored TDs may lose power or become erratic, so bigger is not always better, and can cause unnecessary stress on the crankshaft and piston/rod ball socket. However Norvels work great if you just remove the venturi and put the spraybar right through the raised boss(bathtub) that formerly held the carb or venturi. I use the venturi on Norvels without boring anything, mainly because I like to have the screen to keep dirt out of the engine. There is obviously no bad effect from running those engines with only the bathtub.

Once you find your needle setting, you almost never have to vary much, excepting weather conditions and fuel differences. I leave my needle set and it always cranks up at that same setting. I prefer to use 35% nitro on all of my bladder fed machines. The higher nitro facilitates easy cranking and exceptional power output. This system also protects an engine from accidental lean hot runs. If it goes lean, the engine heats up slowing it, but the continuous in-rush of pressurized fuel "refrigerates" it, cooling it, and it resuming power. It'll sound like an up and down surge, but the action of the incoming fuel cooling a hot sagging run keeps it from damaging itself. Just add a small richening turn to the needle and fly again. It works on Cox reed valve engines very well too.  And it's a quick easy learning curve.

It's a remarkably dependable easy to use system, and I always say to my sport flying friends, once you go bladder, you'll never go back to tanks.
I hope that answers some of your questions.
Rusty
« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 10:17:00 PM by RknRusty »
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
www.coxengineforum.com

Offline Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 13736
Re: Can you use a Venturi to large even with pressure?
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2015, 10:35:23 PM »
Crankshaft hole + 20% is optimum.


????   "Optimum"?  Optimum for what? I think you are going to have to show your work on that one.

    Brett


Advertise Here
Tags: venturi  engine run 
 


Advertise Here