Author Topic: Another Quick Castor Oil Question (Read 5636 times)

Chancey Chorney · « **on:** August 29, 2016, 07:16:18 PM »

Ok. So in my quest for castor oil I have some Klotz Benol on its way. But it may not arrive before I leave town. A friend of mine at work said he would give me some of his in the meantime. He said that he got this from a local hobby shop a little while ago. He uses the same stuff to mix his diesel engine fuel and it does work fine for him. My only concern is that it is not the color of the stuff that I had previously used. Can anyone shed some light on this for me please. would it be alright to use. I want to add this to my gallon of Sig 5% nitro, 25% all castor fuel to use in an older Fox 35 Stunt, Fox 35 50th Anniversary, and OS 29 I. Thank you.

Chancey Chorney · « **Reply #1 on:** August 29, 2016, 07:18:37 PM »

I forgot to add that I do not want to ruin the whole gallon of fuel, so if I have to wait until the Klotz Benol shows up I will.

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #2 on:** August 29, 2016, 07:49:48 PM »

It looks a shade darker than the Sig castor I use but may be fine. Just divide your quantities up and mix a pint to try it. If you think there's a problem pitch the little batch and you still have the rest.

Dave

Air Ministry . · « **Reply #3 on:** August 29, 2016, 09:19:15 PM »

Our local eaxpert engine builder , Mr Rothwell , ' S M R ' Olivers , tells me Beanols fine for glows , and ' the thing ' for diesels ,
Tho all my glows've been playing up .

Think it was the ' winter ' methanol , . . .

Beanols REd ,
Klotz is RED ,
Cool Powers BLUE ,

I prefer BLUE Fuel ,
But all the World Chumps Blokes use BEANOL in their T?R Diesels .

So I suppose the Solution is to mix a litre or a half , if you cant get a consistant setting , let us know . Tecnically its superior to normal castor .

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #4 on:** August 30, 2016, 07:37:28 PM »

Take a tablespoon before bedtime and see if it works?

If it feels oily, mixes with a bit of fuel ok, and you trust your co-worker, just mix up a pint of fuel and use it. It looks rather like Corn oil, huh?

Steve

Chancey Chorney · « **Reply #5 on:** August 30, 2016, 07:46:22 PM »

That's why I had asked. Looks so much like cooking oil to me, especially compared to the bit of the castor oil I had used before. Just a tablespoon, huh? I thought an adult dose would be two! Lol.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #6 on:** August 31, 2016, 10:44:45 AM »

Anyone have experience with other oils such as olive oil or safflower oil in fuel? Or is Castor oil really that unique?

frank mccune · « **Reply #7 on:** August 31, 2016, 12:45:16 PM »

Hi Larry:

I asked this same question to a knowledgeable friend concerning other oils like peanut, olive, soy, corn, rape. cotton seed etc. and he told me that all of the above oils would be fine but castor is the best. Can you imagine the great smell that peanut oil would impart? I would probably get the munchies while flying! Lol

Perhaps other people who have tried various oils will add their thoughts.

Be Cool,

Frank McCune

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #8 on:** August 31, 2016, 12:50:36 PM »

K&B Speed Fuel (~60% vitamin N) was said to have "epoxidized" safflower oil for lube. I wasn't all that impressed with the lubricity of the fuel, and started mixing my own using Ucon oil. This was much better, apparently, because the engine wouldn't seize on a lean run until the piston had a hole in it and the cylinder liner had turned a pretty blue...still with a nice smooth bore.

One of the questions that has always nagged me was whether the glowplug seal blowing was what caused the burndown or whether the lean run caused the glowplug seal to give up the ghost and head for cooler climates. I always got my best speeds with K&B glowplugs and had most the bad stuff happen with Fireball glowplugs. $:-\$ Steve

PS: Hempseed oil might be the cat's PJ's, and I'd guess that it's legal in my State.

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #9 on:** August 31, 2016, 02:56:27 PM »

Quote from: Larry Renger on August 31, 2016, 10:44:45 AM

Anyone have experience with other oils such as olive oil or safflower oil in fuel? Or is Castor oil really that unique?

Many years ago my uncle was a TWA mechanic here in KC at their overhaul base. He was also a modeler and would bring home to us coconut oil used in jet turbines. This was super high temp and worked great- didn't smell too bad either.

Dave

As a side note I got a text from Kevin (my son in law/ flying partner) telling me about when we were in Wichita earlier this year for a contest he let another flyer put a small shot of Armor All in a new gallon of his fuel there. Today he pulled out that gallon and found it has turned very dark in color and the fuel feels tacky. He says the Armor All turned the castor into honey. He won't be using Armor All again!

Larry Renger · « **Reply #10 on:** September 01, 2016, 07:35:53 AM »

Interesting, I use Armor All in my fuel with no ill effects.

Brian Hampton · « **Reply #11 on:** September 01, 2016, 08:03:26 PM »

OK, I have to make a comment here

. Coconut oil in gas turbines? No way. All military gas turbines (in Australia) use Mobil Jet Oil II which is all synthetic. Civilian gas turbines may use BP2380 but is similar to the Mobil. Both of these work very well as the only lubricant in glow fuel with the BP being preferable because it doesn't have the very heavy brown dye used by Mobil.

This message brought to you by an ex (military) aircraft engine fitter

.

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #12 on:** September 02, 2016, 05:04:59 AM »

Quote from: Brian Hampton on September 01, 2016, 08:03:26 PM

OK, I have to make a comment here . Coconut oil in gas turbines? No way. All military gas turbines (in Australia) use Mobil Jet Oil II which is all synthetic. Civilian gas turbines may use BP2380 but is similar to the Mobil. Both of these work very well as the only lubricant in glow fuel with the BP being preferable because it doesn't have the very heavy brown dye used by Mobil.

This message brought to you by an ex (military) aircraft engine fitter .

This was 50+ years ago in the 707 and 727 era. TWA was still flying a few Super Connies at the time. I'm sure things have changed since then.

Dave

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #13 on:** September 02, 2016, 12:46:00 PM »

George Aldrich mentioned "Turbine Oil" once or twice in email exchanges. He seemed apprehensive of it. I would have selected a *replaceable*
engine that was well run-in and given it a good tryout at a normal oil content percentage, maybe 20%.

Steve

Motorman · « **Reply #14 on:** September 02, 2016, 02:28:47 PM »

Chancey, that definitely looks like olive oil. I think your friend is having you on.

MM

Lauri Malila · « **Reply #15 on:** September 05, 2016, 10:20:25 AM »

I love my Shell turbine engine oil, not as lubricant in fuel but as after-run and assembly oil. It seems to never go stiff and does not harm any materials used in engines, except for dyeing brown all non-metallic materials.
I don't think it would work in fuel, it's too thin and I have no idea how it mixes with other ingredients. Besides, it smells horrible.
As for castor, many work just fine when mixed with good synthetic. But the best seems to be "Racing Castor 927" by Maxima (www.maximausa.com). It's a highly modified castor based oil. Even when used as it is, it leaves little if any residue. So little that some F2C guys mix it with Benol to get that healthy tan to piston.
I mix it 1:1 with Fuchs Aerosave, works well! L

bob whitney · « **Reply #16 on:** September 06, 2016, 08:25:40 AM »

Back in the 70's I ran Wessen cooking oil in my S/T 15 with no problem, but it was at 20%

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #17 on:** September 06, 2016, 09:36:10 AM »

In my earlier post I mentioned using the coconut turbine oil. Just wanted to add we used it as an additive, not as the only oil. We usually bought Dukes Fuel which was a bit higher in nitro than Superfuel but with less oil. It was a couple dollars cheaper also. We then added the turbine oil to get it back up to the oil content of the Superfuel. Worked well.

Russell Shaffer · « **Reply #18 on:** September 06, 2016, 01:57:40 PM »

I tried this morning to mix soybean oil and olive oil with some fuel in a glass jar. Both settled out quickly, just like oil and vinegar salad dressing. Didn't work for me.

RandySmith · « **Reply #19 on:** September 06, 2016, 02:44:17 PM »

Do NOT use other vegatable oils, there is a reason castor is used, This has been researched over over and over again.
All oils do not react the same here is just one reason to use castor :

Castor oil has been used as a 2 cycle lubricant for decades. Its chemical structure allows it to polymerise at high temperatures and to form a sticky wax type material , we normally referred to this as castor varnish. This wax substance still has lubricating properties. In the event of oil starvation the wax still separates the metal surfaces for a short time, giving hi heat protection, and castor when burned tends to flow toward the heat, not away from it.
Read the fuel article pinned at the top of this forum if you care to know more

Randy

Russell Shaffer · « **Reply #20 on:** September 06, 2016, 06:56:42 PM »

Randy has a very good argument. I'm glad I didn't dump 4 ounces into a fuel jug and try to use it.

Chancey Chorney · « **Reply #21 on:** September 11, 2016, 06:00:46 PM »

Quote from: Motorman on September 02, 2016, 02:28:47 PM

Chancey, that definitely looks like olive oil. I think your friend is having you on.

MM

Thank you. I was very weary of it as well, hence this topic. I will try a small mix to see. But I personally have no reason not to believe him, as he is not the type of person at all to play tricks like this or any other, and it was apparently brought in from a LHS a few years ago. But again, I appreciate your opinion and concerns.

Chancey Chorney · « **Reply #22 on:** September 11, 2016, 06:08:23 PM »

Ok. Just got back inside. I grabbed 2 bottles of Olive oil, regular and virgin. As well, I grabbed my bottle of 'castor'. I did a smell test, and as well, had my better half smell them. I asked her about the smells. She ID'd the 'castor' as smelling different from the others. This is in no way scientific testing by any means, but just wanted to see if there was a difference in smell, and indeed there was.

Chancey Chorney · « **Reply #23 on:** September 11, 2016, 09:59:08 PM »

I just came back inside from doing a little test. I unfortunately had only a small clear container available, so I put approximately 1/2 ounce of my Omega 5% fuel in and added a little bit of the castor oil pictured and gave it a stir. At the time I left the garage, it was still blended in with no seperation. I did not have another to try it with olive oil, so I could not say that it would seperate. I will look at it again tomorrow afternoon when I get home from work and post the results again. I will then do the same test with olive oil for my own knowledge anyways. Thank you all again for the help.

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #24 on:** September 12, 2016, 01:28:39 PM »

Save your jelly jars! My wife saves all sorts of bottles and containers, but I grab the jelly jars. They can be completely cleaned, while the salsa and most other bottles are hopelessly stained for life. What drives me nuts is that she (she who must be obeyed) puts the lids in a kitchen drawer, but the jar goes in the pantry. Wouldn't you keep them together, with the lid on the appropriate jar? Not logical to her, apparently! And then she complains about the lack of storage space!

Steve

Steve Thornton · « **Reply #25 on:** May 01, 2017, 11:11:31 AM »

Quote from: Dave_Trible on September 02, 2016, 05:04:59 AM

This was 50+ years ago in the 707 and 727 era. TWA was still flying a few Super Connies at the time. I'm sure things have changed since then.

Dave

Sorry Dave but 2380 is still the gold standard for turbine engine manufacturers, GE, Pratt, etc.
Steve

Gary Dowler · « **Reply #26 on:** June 16, 2017, 07:35:10 PM »

Quote from: Chancey Chorney on August 29, 2016, 07:16:18 PM

Ok. So in my quest for castor oil I have some Klotz Benol on its way. But it may not arrive before I leave town. A friend of mine at work said he would give me some of his in the meantime. He said that he got this from a local hobby shop a little while ago. He uses the same stuff to mix his diesel engine fuel and it does work fine for him. My only concern is that it is not the color of the stuff that I had previously used. Can anyone shed some light on this for me please. would it be alright to use. I want to add this to my gallon of Sig 5% nitro, 25% all castor fuel to use in an older Fox 35 Stunt, Fox 35 50th Anniversary, and OS 29 I. Thank you.
[/quote
One day when I was in need of solving a problem I went to the drug store and bought a quart of castor oil there. My Fox 35 needs 30% oil to run properly and my fuel was 18% and it just wasn't working. I added the new castor and it worked like a charm. Clean and ran great.

C.T. Schaefer · « **Reply #27 on:** June 16, 2017, 08:04:17 PM »

I would not jerk around with oils that are not proven. Benoil is good stuff. Also, your Fox will be happy with the Sig 25% as is or at least until the Klotz arrives. TS

Gary Dowler · « **Reply #28 on:** June 16, 2017, 08:30:44 PM »

Quote from: C.T. Schaefer on June 16, 2017, 08:04:17 PM

I would not jerk around with oils that are not proven. Benoil is good stuff. Also, your Fox will be happy with the Sig 25% as is or at least until the Klotz arrives. TS

Valid point, but considering that it was nothing but medical grade castor oil I could see little chance of harm, especially given that I was only adding a bit over 10% to my fuel. All new methods are unproven until someone dares to try it. Sometimes it works, others it do. This time it did and I was able to learn something I could use and pass on to others.

C.T. Schaefer · « **Reply #29 on:** June 17, 2017, 07:29:42 PM »

Sorry. I wasn't commenting on the medical grade. You can't go wrong with that stuff. A number of years ago I got some ( several gallons) from a friend in the biz. Wonderful and it was cheap

TS