What does the plane weigh? 

Thanks, that'd be great, Ty!
I'll be in touch.

For sure, I'm that beginner you mentioned, Dan, and I'm confused.
I've read many comments on SH that the .20 FP is equal to a Fox .35, and the .25 is even more.
Mine (an ABN) turns those props as well as any of my .35s - would they also be marginal for a Banshee?

For sure, I'm that beginner you mentioned, Dan, and I'm confused.
I've read many comments on SH that the .20 FP is equal to a Fox .35, and the .25 is even more.
Mine (an ABN) turns those props as well as any of my .35s - would they also be marginal for a Banshee?

In the opinion of many, the Fox 35 is marginal for that sized plane -- which is why, starting in the late 70's, you saw 46's showing up in a lot of "35 sized" planes.  However, there's a lot of holdouts, so to some extent you have to decide which camp you belong in.

Build it light, put in a 25FP, and it should be adequate, although possibly more challenging to fly.  Just build it, put a 46LA in it, and once you get the engine set-up right it should be a solid, no-nonsense contest plane.

If you can stand going non-original, consider Fancherizing it.  The Banshee was designed with early 70's design rules, and for an unmuffled Fox 35.  That means that the tail is too small and too close to the wing compared to current contest planes, and that the nose is too long for balance with any engine with a muffler.  You can fix two of the three problems by moving the wing forward a couple of inches, and then you can solve the last one with bigger tail feathers.

Considering what Tim said about the Fox 35 being marginal--- I would tend to not comment because I have zero experience with a Banshee or any other supposedly Fox 35 plane in that weight range

My observation is about Terry's note/comment: "I've read many comments on SH that the .20 FP is equal to a Fox .35, and the .25 is even more.
Mine (an ABN) turns those props as well as any of my .35s - would they also be marginal for a Banshee?"

I currently have a 4 flying planes in the 30~32 oz range each pair with a good Fox 35 and it's sister plane with either a LA 25 or BBTU OS 20 (ABC--N)

When I do get to fly--- if the wind is down- I start with the Fox powered model and it does OK for my sport flying

However, I find that the OS powered planes launched at 10,800 to 11,200 RPM handle any gusts and constant breeze much better

This does not answer the question about the Banshee....

But is intended to be another vote for the OS LA 25 or FP 20 BBTU as viable and good Fox 35 alternate power plants----for most models in the 30~34 oz range like my Ringmasters or RSTs

If Terry and Ty can get the Banshee built in the 30~34 oz range I say the OS 25 FP will most likely be a great engine for the model

I hope the two can collaborate and let us know how this final build and flights work out

I very much appreciate your comments, Fred and Mike.
I've flown (read crashed) ARF Flite Streaks with both Fox .35 & .20 FP and either seemed to do OK.
My RingStreakster (FS wing/RM fuselage & tail feathers) currently has the .20 FP but has also had a Fox on it.
I have other projects available so guess I need to rethink my options.

Add:
I think it was either Brett or Dirty Dan (both?) who said the .25 FP was too much for a .35-size and that's why I thought it maybe good for the larger Banshee.

Peter Chinn noted the Fox .35 making .45 hp @ 11.5-12K rpm and OS lists the .25 FP making .6 hp @ 15K rpm.
While Chinn says the Fox developed 46 in. oz. @ 7K rpm, I don't find a torque spec for the FP.
Could the difference in "haulability" you speak of, Dan, be due to more torque from the Fox (or other .35) rather than hp?

That engine looks familiar, Tim!    Yep, plus I bought another XLS .36 at the Swap Meet this weekend. Great little engines! Are you still using the OS muffler/anchor on it? Sounds almost like a 'lectric with that muffler/anchor...excellent combination with the TT 11 x 4.5 prop and 10-22 fuel.  Steve

If you're still undecided you could build the plane with aluminum engine bearers bolted onto the maple motor mounts and set it up for more than one engine.  Of late I've been building all my planes this way, because it minimizes the damage to the motor mounts in crashes and generally firms up that area.  On a profile I relieve the outboard plywood doubler so that the bearer sits right on the maple.

This adds a very small amount of weight, but gives you a setup that lends itself to engine swaps -- just make up a set of bearers for each engine.  You can build your Banshee for the 25LA, try it, and if it doesn't work it'll be a snap to swap in a bigger engine.

That engine would be an ounce lighter if you cleaned the castor off the outside,,

Free Flight, y'say there Sport?
We have something(s) else to discuss then!
Done any .020? I have a few.

at the very least you need to do this on a drill press

Got that covered then, Tim - thanks.

Three .020.  A tiny replica of a Brooklyn Dodger, and 2 1/4 A gassers.

Well, how 'bout that, now - I have a Dodger and 3 others.
I'll bring 'em along for a Show & Tell. 

Well.
42-50 oz Nobler with a .25 LA.
While maybe not overenthusiastic, Brett seemed to think it workable.
Looks like the only thing to do is build the Banshee, modded, with interchangeable mounts and see how the .25 FP will do.

I have the E2030 muffler and thanks again for the mount tip, Tim - makes it worth trying, with an EZ engine upgrade if necessary.

... or better yet sheet the whole leading edge.

Only if your title in your local chapter of the Knights of the Round Circle isn't "Sir Crashalot".  That wing construction is very durable in a crash, as long as the covering material isn't too strong (Monocoat is fine).  The bulk of the fore-aft rigidity in the wing comes from the covering, so in a crash the covering bursts and the LE, spars, and TE all flex forward without (we hope) breaking.  Repair is often a matter of running CA along the long-wood to rib joints and recovering.  If worse damage occurs, it's usually the entire outboard wing panel snapping off right where the center section sheeting ends -- and as horrible as that sounds and looks, it's actually an easy repair to make as long as you either don't have flaps, or you've made your flaps easily removable (I use one long hinge pin made of music wire, with the flap coupling wire running into a bit of brass tubing or a "lucky box" embedded in the flap.  For an after-crash repair I just pull out the wire, set aside the flap, and fix the rest of the wing).

With LE sheeting the wing is rigid -- which is a Good Thing if you don't crash much, but in a crash it means that the damage is much more severe.  With such a wing structure, a fairly common failure is that the wing structure is crushed right at the fuselage, with a lot of crushing damage to the LE.  That's a bear to fix.

Yup.  The bearers are 3/16" thick, drilled & tapped for 4-40 mounting bolts.  For a bigger engine they'd be drilled & tapped 6-32.  (And yes, 3/16" is pretty much the minimum thickness for 6-32 holes -- but it gives five full threads, which is enough if you don't abuse your mounting bolts)....

In the same type bearers in my Magnum, I actually added 4-40 Heli-Coils in my engine bolt holes with red thread locker(or a light coat of JB Weld). I could put a bit more torque on the bolts without worrying about stripping the aluminum.
Rusty

If I had the capability I think I'd have used Heli-Coils or King-serts or some such, too.

I was glad I did. The hard alloy lets you feel a positive hard stop(you know when they're tight) when the bolt stops, without inducing the cringing fear I always feel when tightening into aluminum.

I just looked up Keenserts and they look like they might be even better with less chance of a pullout. I think it's a solid threaded cylinder rather than a wire coil. Thanks for turning us onto that, Tim.
Rusty

Did you glue or dope your hinges.   I'm getting ready to do another session of hinging on a plane.   I dope both surfaces until there is a slight sheen to the dope, sanding between the first couple of coats.  Then using really thinned dope putting the hinges in place.

Check your fuselage clearance on the flap push rod. Might be the camera angle but it looks kinda' close to center.

I tried to crash my Banshee a few weeks ago but it wouldn't go in, dang thing just kept flyin' good, maybe next year.


MM

Check your fuselage clearance on the flap push rod. Might be the camera angle but it looks kinda' close to center.
I tried to crash my Banshee a few weeks ago but it wouldn't go in, dang thing just kept flyin' good, maybe next year.

MM

Tnx for the heads-up on that, MM - close but it clears.

That mount method is a good idea, we're just going for simple on this one - it's not likely to be as long-lived as MM's. 

Hi Rusty. Big irony is Terry already has those type  mounts. We just didn't use them, this time.  I still feel the OS.25 FP is going to do the job, as the model will be built light, minimum paint, as it is gong to be a trainer, thus all the fancy paint isn't needed, not a super finish, all of which add weight. I am going for the KISS principle here.

If you're flying in beginner you definitely don't want a high-effort plane that you're going to sob over if it crashes.

If you're flying in beginner you definitely don't want a high-effort plane that you're going to sob over if it crashes.

Tim, I cry when I crash an ARF Flite Streak!     

Hey Fred - since a .25 FP may not be quite enough engine, we decided to go with 35' lines to cut down on drag and keep the speed up. 

what can I say, Tim - I'd be proud to own either one.