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Author Topic: Thoughts on a Tanager  (Read 8027 times)

Offline Chris Fretz

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Thoughts on a Tanager
« on: November 26, 2016, 09:12:16 AM »
Any thoughts on a Tanager? Good, bad, things to change,  things to do?   I was thinking about starting to build it,  I have 2 kits.
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Thoughts on a Tanager
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2016, 11:26:08 AM »
Unless you are well experienced, build it according to the instructions.
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Offline Chris Fretz

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Re: Thoughts on a Tanager
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2016, 02:41:45 PM »
Good airplane for intermediate?  What weight would you shoot for?  Do you guys CA the whole wing together an epoxy the wing and stab in? How do you build light?

Just trying to avoid making it to heavy for stunt.
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Offline Leester

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Re: Thoughts on a Tanager
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2016, 05:11:21 PM »
When building from the kit I wouldn't worry about the weight until you start to add the finish, just do proper sanding and don't get lazy with it. Yes to C/A on building the wing and my preference is to epoxy the wing to the fuselage just don't glob it on and fill spaces with wood not glue.
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Offline Carl Cisneros

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Re: Thoughts on a Tanager
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2016, 05:16:53 PM »
Chris

what are you going to use for power?

Carl
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Offline Chris Fretz

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Re: Thoughts on a Tanager
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2016, 05:46:51 PM »
When building from the kit I wouldn't worry about the weight until you start to add the finish, just do proper sanding and don't get lazy with it. Yes to C/A on building the wing and my preference is to epoxy the wing to the fuselage just don't glob it on and fill spaces with wood not glue.
Thanks for the advice!
Chris

what are you going to use for power?

Carl

Well I could go with a LA 46, or I'll keep an eye out for a FP .40 or .35. That was going to be my next question. I was also wondering if the FP 40 was a good stunt engine or if it was similar to the LA 40 an not a good stunt engine.

I have been on the look out for the newer FP 35-40 without that bump in the case.
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Offline Leester

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Re: Thoughts on a Tanager
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2016, 06:11:36 PM »
A LAS 46 would be best, it's more user friendly and is the same case as the LAS 40 but lighter.
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Offline Carl Cisneros

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Re: Thoughts on a Tanager
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2016, 08:22:33 PM »
Chris

Let me check andsee what I have in the way of an LA46 for you.

can't promiss anything but will check on it tomorrow.

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Offline Motorman

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Re: Thoughts on a Tanager
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2016, 10:25:03 PM »
The Tanager is a wonderful airplane. This is the first one I built, learned the pattern with and won intermediate first time out. On my next one I'll ditch the surface mounted control horns and steel push rod and use a Tom Morris type control system with CF push rods.

The tail is quite springy. Next time not going to carve a shape into the fuselage blank just round off the edges. Also, I plan to beef up the thin fuselage behind the wing with 4 strips of 1/2" Dave Brown CF laminate, 2 down each side.

Mount the adjustable lead out guide on the smaller tip rib. Use a 4" bellcrank, make the elevator just like the plans. Round off the leading edge of the wing.  

I built mine before I learned to build stunt ships and the kit wood was not 6 Lb balsa but, it came out at 54 oz and still flys really good at that weight. You don't need to lap joint your splices with plywood and epoxy lol.

The wing has allot of lift, you can really pop a corner without stalling the wing. Seems to handle wind and turbulence pretty good.

Definitely go with the .46 and, I fly mine on 63' lines with "E" power.

MM

« Last Edit: December 27, 2016, 07:46:59 AM by Motorman »

Offline Chris Fretz

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Re: Thoughts on a Tanager
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2016, 02:57:10 AM »
The Tanager is a wonderful airplane. This is the first one I built, learned the pattern with and won intermediate first time out. On my next one I'll ditch the surface mounted control horns and steel push rod and use a Tom Morris type control system with CF push rods.

The tail is quite springy. Next time not going to carve a shape into the fuselage blank just round off the edges. Also, I plan to beef up the thin fuselage behind the wing with 4 strips of 1/2" Dave Brown CF laminate, 2 down each side.

Mount the adjustable lead out guide on the smaller tip rib not the first wing rib. Use a 4" bellcrank, make the elevator just like the plans. Round off the leading edge of the wing.  

I built mine before I learned to build stunt ships and the kit wood was not 6 Lb balsa but, it came out at 54 oz and still flys really good at that weight. You don't need to lap joint your splices with plywood and epoxy lol.

The wing has allot of lift, you can really pop a corner without stalling the wing. Seems to handle wind and turbulence pretty good.

Definitely go with the .46 and, I fly mine on 63' lines with "E" power.

MM


Nice looking airplane! Where do you get the laminate at? Is the first wing rib to far back for the adjustable leadout out guide?

Thanks
Chris
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Offline Motorman

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Re: Thoughts on a Tanager
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2016, 07:09:52 PM »
You're right, I had to go look. The lead out adjuster is on the bigger tip rib on mine. I still think it would work on the smaller rib though.

MM

Offline Chris Fretz

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Re: Thoughts on a Tanager
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2016, 09:21:39 AM »
The Tanager is a wonderful airplane. This is the first one I built, learned the pattern with and won intermediate first time out. On my next one I'll ditch the surface mounted control horns and steel push rod and use a Tom Morris type control system with CF push rods.

The tail is quite springy. Next time not going to carve a shape into the fuselage blank just round off the edges. Also, I plan to beef up the thin fuselage behind the wing with 4 strips of 1/2" Dave Brown CF laminate, 2 down each side.

Mount the adjustable lead out guide on the smaller tip rib not the first wing rib. Use a 4" bellcrank, make the elevator just like the plans. Round off the leading edge of the wing.  

I built mine before I learned to build stunt ships and the kit wood was not 6 Lb balsa but, it came out at 54 oz and still flys really good at that weight. You don't need to lap joint your splices with plywood and epoxy lol.

The wing has allot of lift, you can really pop a corner without stalling the wing. Seems to handle wind and turbulence pretty good.

Definitely go with the .46 and, I fly mine on 63' lines with "E" power.

MM


Hey Motorman did you round off the trailing edge where the flaps are or just leave it square an round off the front of the flap? With the flap being 1/4in an the trailing edge being 1/4 with 1/16 balsa on top and bottom in wondering how to make it not look goofy. Plans leave a lot for the imagination.
Chris
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Offline Leester

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Re: Thoughts on a Tanager
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2016, 04:48:31 PM »
Normally you leave the trailing edge square or tapered to the airfoil of the wing but it is flat facing the flap. The leading edge of the flap is sanded or carved in a V shape facing the T.E. of the wing, you can round if you like.
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Thoughts on a Tanager
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2016, 05:57:03 PM »
Are you using pinned hinges or cloth?   I round both the trailing edge of the wing and leading edge of the wing when doing cloth hinges.  With pinned hinges(nylon) I sand leading edge of the flap to a vee  shape.    Same goes for the elevator and stabilizer.  Go look up Crist Regotti's  construction of his plane.  In fact a search of the construction and hinging of the planes on this forum.   Spend some time searching and reading before you get too far.  If you  were here I could show you the way I've done both.
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Offline Chris Fretz

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Re: Thoughts on a Tanager
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2016, 06:22:29 PM »
Normally you leave the trailing edge square or tapered to the airfoil of the wing but it is flat facing the flap. The leading edge of the flap is sanded or carved in a V shape facing the T.E. of the wing, you can round if you like.
Sounds good to me thanks!
Are you using pinned hinges or cloth?   I round both the trailing edge of the wing and leading edge of the wing when doing cloth hinges.  With pinned hinges(nylon) I sand leading edge of the flap to a vee  shape.    Same goes for the elevator and stabilizer.  Go look up Crist Regotti's  construction of his plane.  In fact a search of the construction and hinging of the planes on this forum.   Spend some time searching and reading before you get too far.  If you  were here I could show you the way I've done both.
Pinned hinges, I ended up rounding the leading edge of the flap an leaving the trailing edge square.
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Offline RknRusty

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Re: Thoughts on a Tanager
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2016, 08:59:32 PM »
I recess the flap before shaving its edge into a V shape with a tool like this. There's a 5/8" pin hinge laying on top of the recessing tool to show dimension, but it's hard to see in the picture. That's just a test piece, not a real flap, but the tool is 1/16" ply, exactly as deep as the hinge barrel's width, that cuts an 11/16" wide gap. The back-board stops it when it sands down to the exact right depth. It makes the hinge barrel flush for little or no gap between the flap LE and wing's TE. The extra width is to accommodate the pin's ends.

BTW, that's my favorite slot digger and cleaner above it. A busted jigsaw or scroll saw blade. A #11 gets me to where I can use the digger.

Rusty
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Offline Chris Fretz

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Re: Thoughts on a Tanager
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2016, 07:06:14 AM »
I recess the flap before shaving its edge into a V shape with a tool like this. There's a 5/8" pin hinge laying on top of the recessing tool to show dimension, but it's hard to see in the picture. That's just a test piece, not a real flap, but the tool is 1/16" ply, exactly as deep as the hinge barrel's width, that cuts an 11/16" wide gap. The back-board stops it when it sands down to the exact right depth. It makes the hinge barrel flush for little or no gap between the flap LE and wing's TE. The extra width is to accommodate the pin's ends.

BTW, that's my favorite slot digger and cleaner above it. A busted jigsaw or scroll saw blade. A #11 gets me to where I can use the digger.

Rusty

Hi Rusty
That's pretty cool an simple, I better give that a try, maybe I'll re-sand it into a V too. What does it do when you have a gap between the trailing edge an flap? Just not turn as fast or what?
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Thoughts on a Tanager
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2016, 11:30:04 AM »
Do a search on sealing hinge lines.  A lot of info.   My self I'm not that good at the pattern so I get the gap as close as I can.  One of the reason I do cloth hinges now.
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Offline RknRusty

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Re: Thoughts on a Tanager
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2016, 02:33:14 PM »
Hi Rusty
That's pretty cool an simple, I better give that a try, maybe I'll re-sand it into a V too. What does it do when you have a gap between the trailing edge an flap? Just not turn as fast or what?
That's right, just a little extra mush in the corners due to air leaking through the gap. Sealing is a good idea that may make a difference at our level.
I suspect Doc is being overly modest, because he and the demented poodle have been complimenting my flying videos since I was a horrid raw beginner. Occasionally offering some stern advice and even sending me a part or two. Thanks for looking out for us, Doc.
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Offline Chris Fretz

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Re: Thoughts on a Tanager
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2016, 04:57:26 PM »
That's right, just a little extra mush in the corners due to air leaking through the gap. Sealing is a good idea that may make a difference at our level.
I suspect Doc is being overly modest, because he and the demented poodle have been complimenting my flying videos since I was a horrid raw beginner. Occasionally offering some stern advice and even sending me a part or two. Thanks for looking out for us, Doc.
Rusty
This is a sweet hinge tool I picked up last year from a older fella selling off his modeling equipment. It self centers on any thickness wood. It worked pretty good on the Tanager.

I tried searching for sealing hinge lines but I havent had much lucking finding good answers about it. I never seem to have much luck searching things I want to know on here.

Rusty do you have sealing tape on your Twister? What kind of tape do you use so it dont rip the finish off?
 
Doc is a swell guy, I was hoping to meet him at Brodaks this year but didnt.
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Offline Chris Fretz

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Re: Thoughts on a Tanager
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2016, 05:01:50 PM »
Do a search on sealing hinge lines.  A lot of info.   My self I'm not that good at the pattern so I get the gap as close as I can.  One of the reason I do cloth hinges now.
I used cloth hinges all the time back in the 90's. I don't really know why Im using these Dubro ones. Iam not very good at finishing an airplane an dont really want to see the cloth hinges through the finish. Which is going to be another problem, what to finish this thing in...
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Offline RknRusty

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Re: Thoughts on a Tanager
« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2016, 07:26:58 PM »
I used cloth hinges all the time back in the 90's. I don't really know why I'm using these Dubro ones. I am not very good at finishing an airplane and don't really want to see the cloth hinges through the finish. Which is going to be another problem, what to finish this thing in...
I have that hinge tool, but never could work the centerline scribing part very well. I just take a length of music wire half the thickness of the flap wood and use it as a guide to draw the centerline. Flip the flap and draw it again and if there's a gap between the two lines, it'll be right on center. A steady hand can freehand it very well too.

The fork is too soft on the harder flap wood I use and tends to bend off course. So I just slowly work an exacto blade in, and then clean it out. The gouging hook is okay for cleaning it out, but the sharp saw blade suits me best... again because of my hard balsa choice. I can apply less force and drag more wood out neatly.
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Offline Don Jenkins

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Re: Thoughts on a Tanager
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2016, 08:13:09 AM »
Any thoughts on a Tanager? Good, bad, things to change,  things to do?   I was thinking about starting to build it,  I have 2 kits.
[/quote

I built a Tanager to learn the beginner pattern. It flew well with a Fox .40 and was quite sturdy, it lived through 5 crashes.  The only changes I made was to mount the landing gear in the wing (only because I like the look, but the wider stance seems to achieve more consistent landings for me) and I used a conventional elevator (I rid of the "counter balance" tips, not sure of the proper term.)  Good luck.

Don

Offline Chris Fretz

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Re: Thoughts on a Tanager
« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2016, 10:18:41 AM »
Any thoughts on a Tanager? Good, bad, things to change,  things to do?   I was thinking about starting to build it,  I have 2 kits.
[/quote

I built a Tanager to learn the beginner pattern. It flew well with a Fox .40 and was quite sturdy, it lived through 5 crashes.  The only changes I made was to mount the landing gear in the wing (only because I like the look, but the wider stance seems to achieve more consistent landings for me) and I used a conventional elevator (I rid of the "counter balance" tips, not sure of the proper term.)  Good luck.

Don
Wow that's pretty! What kind of finish is on it?
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Thoughts on a Tanager
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2016, 10:43:02 AM »
That is one really nice looking plane.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline Motorman

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Re: Thoughts on a Tanager
« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2016, 11:04:16 AM »
best hinge slotting tool on the market http://aerobroach.com/  

No need to seal the hinge line, it will fly just fine with a 1/16th gap. My Banshee has a 3/16th gap and it's ok.


MM

Offline Chris Fretz

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Re: Thoughts on a Tanager
« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2016, 11:56:29 AM »
best hinge slotting tool on the market http://aerobroach.com/  

No need to seal the hinge line, it will fly just fine with a 1/16th gap. My Banshee has a 3/16th gap and it's ok.


MM
I already ordered that a couple days ago. Hasn't arrived yet.
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Offline Don Jenkins

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Re: Thoughts on a Tanager
« Reply #27 on: December 31, 2016, 06:44:41 AM »
Wow that's pretty! What kind of finish is on it?

It doesn't really have that nice of a finish, it just looks better in the photo.  I built this plane in 21 days and its all Brodak dope including primer.

Don

Offline Chris Fretz

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Re: Thoughts on a Tanager
« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2016, 07:53:30 AM »
It doesn't really have that nice of a finish, it just looks better in the photo.  I built this plane in 21 days and its all Brodak dope including primer.

Don
Did you use silkspan or polyspan?
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Offline Chris Fretz

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Re: Thoughts on a Tanager
« Reply #29 on: December 31, 2016, 11:25:06 AM »
best hinge slotting tool on the market http://aerobroach.com/  

No need to seal the hinge line, it will fly just fine with a 1/16th gap. My Banshee has a 3/16th gap and it's ok.


MM
I just got my Aerobroach, I'm shocked to find out it came from a house about 15 minutes from my house. Crazy
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Offline Don Jenkins

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Re: Thoughts on a Tanager
« Reply #30 on: December 31, 2016, 05:48:22 PM »
Did you use silkspan or polyspan?

Silkspan

Offline Chris Fretz

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Re: Thoughts on a Tanager
« Reply #31 on: January 14, 2017, 07:48:38 PM »
Silkspan
If you don't mind me asking what does it weight, or did it weight?
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Offline Don Jenkins

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Re: Thoughts on a Tanager
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2017, 06:03:26 AM »
If you don't mind me asking what does it weight, or did it weight?

It was right at 50 ounces (yes heavy, this was the second plane I built after a 40 year absence from the hobby, and I used too much primer and paint!)  The Fox .40 is also a heavy ball bearing engine and I had to add a bit of tail weight, but it had lots of power!

Don

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Re: Thoughts on a Tanager
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2017, 07:36:14 AM »
I saw all five of those crashes that Don mentioned. Most were pancake so damage was not to bad. But the one thing that Don learned about during those early flights  was how important good controls are. I think he ended up with one to one. He had a lot of motor problems and that makes good flights hard to get. One of his Fox 40 's was a dog and switching it out for another moter helped. A lot was learned on that plane. I do not think the weight hurt it at all.
Ed
« Last Edit: January 15, 2017, 12:13:08 PM by EddyR »
Locust NC 40 miles from the Huntersville field

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Thoughts on a Tanager
« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2017, 11:37:39 AM »
As Windy said in one of his articles many years ago,  first step in trimming a plane is a good dependable engine run.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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