Author Topic: oops, 1 1/2 degree error, should I worry about it? (Read 24406 times)

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #50 on:** April 02, 2015, 10:16:34 PM »

I like pin hinges a lot better now. Using the correct tool makes a big difference! 1-2 minutes per slot, 4 hinges, less than 15 minutes and ready to glue!

Phil

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #51 on:** April 03, 2015, 02:22:14 PM »

NOW! WITH WHEELS!!

RknRusty · « **Reply #52 on:** April 03, 2015, 10:45:27 PM »

Fantastic! Streaks are beautiful bird like planes. They'll fly better than you ever imagined. The birdlike look is why I bashed my Skyray to look like a Streak with eagle feathers on the wings and named it Osprey. Unfortunately didn't last long though. But it got me a trophy lol. Waiting for your flight report now.
Rusty

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #53 on:** April 04, 2015, 06:23:44 AM »

Still a bit before I am flight ready. I only have 1 engine ready. I am tempted to saw the NVA off the back plate on the unused LA to "save" the back plate from damage.

The LA that was crashed I feel funny about even though I can't find a reason to feel funny. The prop didn't break, the engine didn't ingest dirt... just the NVA broke off the back plate. I'll bench it before mounting it.

Phil

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #54 on:** April 04, 2015, 08:55:00 AM »

Hmm....

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #55 on:** April 04, 2015, 09:45:20 AM »

I like.

Dane Martin · « **Reply #56 on:** April 04, 2015, 02:30:01 PM »

Nice protection there Phil!

RknRusty · « **Reply #57 on:** April 04, 2015, 11:32:05 PM »

That's a great idea, good thinking.

Hiya, Dane, hope you're getting some play time now that Spring is upon us.
Rusty

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #58 on:** April 05, 2015, 06:00:53 AM »

It is a good healthy chunk of aluminum. I am concerned about the weight, but I think using plywood after fuel proofing or paint would weigh similar.

Phil

Howard Rush · « **Reply #59 on:** April 07, 2015, 01:26:21 PM »

Those brass threaded ends break.

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #60 on:** April 07, 2015, 01:33:47 PM »

Quote from: Howard Rush on April 07, 2015, 01:26:21 PM

Those brass threaded ends break.

That's not very surprising. I expect the steel is significantly stronger.

What kind of service life can I expect? Do you know the typical mode of failure?

Phil

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #61 on:** April 10, 2015, 12:38:43 PM »

Still missing a few things.
Push rod support
Tip weight on the left one
Fuel systems
Balancing

I almost want to throw the la away with how nice the lines are count to run on the FP!

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #62 on:** April 13, 2015, 06:18:24 AM »

It turns out that on the scratch built streaks the nose is shorter than on the ARF, so there is not enough room for the 3 oz clunk tank behind the engine. I'll have to put the tank on the inboard side and not worry about it.

or find a different 3 oz tank than the Hayes chin tank.

Phil

RknRusty · « **Reply #63 on:** April 14, 2015, 10:38:48 AM »

Quote from: Phil Krankowski on April 13, 2015, 06:18:24 AM

It turns out that on the scratch built streaks the nose is shorter than on the ARF, so there is not enough room for the 3 oz clunk tank behind the engine. I'll have to put the tank on the inboard side and not worry about it.

or find a different 3 oz tank than the Hayes chin tank.

Phil

Hey Phil
I've had pretty good luck with the 3 oz Brodak #590 oval uniflow tank. I use it on my Shoestring. I had trouble with my first one sucking too much air from the uniflow vent, but John sent me a new one. I'm not so sure it was a real problem either, as I was new to hard tanks, having just graduated from all bladder fed 1/2A and was clueless as to how to properly use a wedge tank. I wish the fuel feed came out of the bottom, but no big deal about that.

Or if uniflow isn't your preference, you might like the #568. Same dimensions as the 590, but standard vent with the feed out the bottom. I use that on my Yak-9 for the Fox 35.

Rusty

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #64 on:** April 14, 2015, 01:29:53 PM »

I like uniflow. I never looked for a metal tank because I was planning to use a plastic tank. I will keep this in mind. I have a different plastic tank on order. The HK 90cc tank
https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=71766
either it will fit or it will look better on the inboard side than the chin tank, or I'll use it on a different project and consider a metal tank further.

Phil

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #65 on:** April 15, 2015, 11:10:17 AM »

After considerable hemming and hawing, making a guide from aluminum and not liking it, starting one from tinplate and again, not liking it, I went with the old standby and cut some safety pins to glue in.

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #66 on:** April 15, 2015, 08:47:14 PM »

On the stretch fuselage I went with rubber bands and formed in place piano wire hooks. I need to shim for up and down movement, but a 5 degree, 1/4 inch wedge is already trapped in place. The rubber bands are temporary till the epoxy cures.

Thanks to Steve Kientz for the suggestion
http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php/topic,38967.msg399013.html#msg399013

On the scratch built the fuel tank I have doesn't even fit in the space. Still don't know what I am going to do there, other than wait for the HK 90cc tank to show up.

Phil

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #67 on:** April 16, 2015, 09:21:33 AM »

That's some crazy talk in this picture...or is it?

The stretched fuse will need a lot of tail weight, so why not add tail without stretching the nose? I can move the engine forward half the way of the stretched fuse without altering the nose, and I can enlarge the stabilizer!

This is the third model which I haven't worked on yet (just to be clear) it also has the misaligned horizontal stabilizer. It also has dope coating failure going on where I used epoxy.

RknRusty · « **Reply #68 on:** April 16, 2015, 01:28:17 PM »

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #69 on:** April 16, 2015, 02:38:56 PM »

Quote from: RknRusty on April 16, 2015, 01:28:17 PM

It ain't like I've never seen it successfully done, half my dad's profile combat ships had this procedure done. This picture however is my Mom's (I think, might be my Dad's) stunt sport plane with the empannage from one of my Dad's grafted on.

I have no clue what the two planes were kitted as, even if they were the same design. I do know that effort to maintain the moments was used. In MY case I am changing the moment

Phil

RknRusty · « **Reply #70 on:** April 16, 2015, 03:05:13 PM »

That's cool, Phil. How many people can say, "My Mom's and my Dad's planes..." My Dad had supposedly done it before I came along, but I doubt if he had much experience. That assumption is based on the unfortunate fact that he taught me to hold the handle backwards. And I don't think he ever attempted to fly any of my Cox models, but he was sure good at gluing them back together. I like that you're posting the details of your work, I enjoy watching builds.
Rusty

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #71 on:** April 16, 2015, 07:51:52 PM »

I wish I had though of a weight box in the tail of the other two. This one will have though!

Kinda wish I used a hole saw and did a neater job about it too...

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #72 on:** April 16, 2015, 09:44:30 PM »

I wanted the tail as long as the stretch fuselage. I simply used the template from the stretch fuselage and fitted the tail length, allowing a little for cutting and fitting.

I then drove a couple drywall screws into the layers through the tape after using a straight edge to make the top level. I marked my cut with a piece of diagonal tape. I cut with a hacksaw through all layers at once. The results were acceptable, but not perfect.

I cleaned up the cut with sandpaper and fit the pieces together using a piece of angle aluminum to maintain excellent alignment. After removing material and fitting several times I was reasonably happy with the fit. The aluminum was left clamped to the main airframe.

Using cotton flocking I thickened some epoxy and buttered both surfaces to wet them. I then applied more thickened epoxy to prevent voids in the joint. I clamped the new tail section to the aluminum, and drove a skewer through the "top" edge (actually the bottom as it is upside down) I worked thickened epoxy into the joint and scraped it off flat on both sides.

I figure this should be at least as strong as any other repaired flyswattered fuselage.

Phil

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #73 on:** April 17, 2015, 07:10:21 AM »

After a few minutes of sanding it looks pretty good.

I did blow some sheeting by not being careful with the pushrod. Alas. Minor.

Yes, I know the pushrod is rather short. I will join an extension to it with a brass tube and solder.

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #74 on:** April 17, 2015, 08:15:28 AM »

On to spackling. Dap Fast and Final seems to work well under Rustoleum. I wipe with a moist paper towel so the wood isn't bone dry (I don't want it wet either) and go to town. Most gets sanded off. Overnight seems to be long enough for drying prior to priming.

http://www.amazon.com/DAP-12142-Interior-Exterior-Spackling/dp/B0006MXS1A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1429278871&sr=8-1&keywords=fast+and+final

There is a significant depression at the joint on the original wood, and in the canopy from when I dropped it as the aluminum parted from the epoxy...

I am also going to try filling the grain with spackle prior to painting on the stabilizer.

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #75 on:** April 18, 2015, 12:57:28 PM »

Slight increase in stabilizer. Other than cracking the rudder a few times while cleaning it up this went swimmingly.

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #76 on:** April 19, 2015, 10:15:37 AM »

Quote from: Phil Krankowski on April 17, 2015, 08:15:28 AM

On to spackling. Dap Fast and Final seems to work well under Rustoleum. I wipe with a moist paper towel so the wood isn't bone dry (I don't want it wet either) and go to town. Most gets sanded off. Overnight seems to be long enough for drying prior to priming.

http://www.amazon.com/DAP-12142-Interior-Exterior-Spackling/dp/B0006MXS1A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1429278871&sr=8-1&keywords=fast+and+final

There is a significant depression at the joint on the original wood, and in the canopy from when I dropped it as the aluminum parted from the epoxy...

I am also going to try filling the grain with spackle prior to painting on the stabilizer.

I did this to the elevator, and just hit it with primer after sanding. WOW! It is like I am on my fifth coat of filling grain! I'll sand and prime again, then on to color. I like spackle now!

No picture today.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #77 on:** April 19, 2015, 05:29:37 PM »

Phil,

You've been working hard.

You have a good build here also, photos really make the difference.

Nice changes, change is good.

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #78 on:** April 19, 2015, 06:02:15 PM »

Thank you Charles.

I'll get a picture of my battle axe, er, elevator before I start sanding. I have it pinned to a stick hanging in the garage. It is simply a "not that much to see" kinda thing.

I shot a layer of white primer, again rustoleum painter's touch x2, on top of the grey rustoleum painter's touch x2 primer. These products have to cure well before sanding or they don't sand! I rather use the grey professional primer, but I am out of that, and I have what I am using. The end result is the same, except for the couple DAY cure time for the painter's touch primer! I filled the stabilizer with spackle, and will take a shot of that before and after sanding too.

My real fear is the spackle will pop out, but there is so little I think it will glue in very well with the painting.

I think, but am not sure, that the partially repaired tail graft that may be mostly my Mom's plane is a Sterling P51D mustang. Plans are on Hip Pocket. I recall is always being called the "bumble bee" since it is black and yellow with a McCoy 19 or so on it. The original tail duplicated the wing and flap pattern.

http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_plans/details.php?image_id=833&mode=search

Phil

RknRusty · « **Reply #79 on:** April 19, 2015, 06:35:43 PM »

Phil, I've been filling grain with lightweight spackle for years and have never had it pop out. If I use it in a thick application for shaping, like blending a doubler or a cheek block into the fuse, and 1/2A filets, I spread CA all over it with a paper towel when I'm finished sanding. Do that after it dries overnight, and it soaks in and becomes hard as a rock, it can't even be sanded. It's shiny after the CA treatment too. The only crack I've ever had develop was in the filet of my Yak-9 from the Fox 35 shaking. I don't really expect strength, but it looks great and is quick and easy. I prefer Dap, but they're all about the same. Filling grain with primer is too much trouble. I use a thin coat of primer, sanded, just to help the paint adhere. Sometimes I use the Dap on top and sometimes under the primer. I think Hobbylite is the same stuff, just expensive.
Rusty

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #80 on:** April 19, 2015, 08:32:06 PM »

Great to know Rusty. I already buttered the other raw wood parts since this is so unbelievably easy and fast!

I also discovered an epoxy booger on the side of the fuse. I may have to mask around it with electrical tape and sand on the booger so it is selected for removal, and spares all the softer work.

I am itching to go fly one of these, but I don't expect to get a chance for a couple weeks... I just have some minor details to complete on the first two: numbers, plumbing, maybe a tail weight box...Those are going to need most of an ounce each. Then again I have adhesive lead weights so I can just let those be ugly.

Phil

David Ruff · « **Reply #81 on:** April 20, 2015, 03:58:53 AM »

Quote from: Tim Wescott on November 07, 2014, 12:08:59 PM

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXET66&P=ML

Kinda spendy, but very well built.

It is well worth the money. And there is also another brand of these out there if you can find it.

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #82 on:** April 20, 2015, 05:51:22 AM »

Quote from: David Ruff on April 20, 2015, 03:58:53 AM

It is well worth the money. And there is also another brand of these out there if you can find it.

Yes, I do agree incidence meters are well worth the money. Before this I never believed that to be true.

I find pictures of a digital unit, but it is discontinued and out of stock everywhere I find it listed for sale.

Phil

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #83 on:** April 20, 2015, 09:04:27 AM »

Build your own incidence gauge! At the very bottom is a PDF.

http://www.alamorcs.org/BuildingInfo.html

Phil

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #84 on:** April 20, 2015, 03:14:12 PM »

I have to sand outside, and it is crazy windy today so I don't see anything happening today.

Photographing spackle and grain that is not present is pretty hard...These are after spackle, before sanding on the stabilizer. The joint in the fuselage is spackled and sanded and almost ready for paint... but for an errant glue booger I need to deal with. The elevator is sanded and painted with primer. There is almost no grain showing in the primer. A good sanding then light primer followed by color.

I drilled some small holes in a 1/2 inch stick and pin through the holes to hold parts like this for paint. Seems to work good. Works better if I remember to set up for hinge position first.

I was thinking about making the nose red and the tail navy on this one. The wings will be the same.

I also hope that wavy edge on the elevator is an optical illusion from the camera and background. It won't be hard to straighten up though, some sandpaper on a hard flat surface should do.

Phil

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #85 on:** April 22, 2015, 01:33:07 PM »

Quote from: Phil Krankowski on April 16, 2015, 02:38:56 PM

It ain't like I've never seen it successfully done, half my dad's profile combat ships had this procedure done. This picture however is my Mom's (I think, might be my Dad's) stunt sport plane with the empannage from one of my Dad's grafted on.

I have no clue what the two planes were kitted as, even if they were the same design. I do know that effort to maintain the moments was used. In MY case I am changing the moment

Phil

This is mostly my Mom's "Bumble Bee" it had a McCoy 19 on it. We think it is a Sterling S2 P-51
http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_plans/details.php?image_id=833&mode=search
but we are not quite positive.
Phil

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #86 on:** April 24, 2015, 08:01:06 PM »

Taping hinge lines

I've never done it before when there is a hinge of some type, although I use tape hinges on RC foamies...

Point me at some reading I might have missed please. I have noticed the subject appear in other threads recently.

Phil

Dane Martin · « **Reply #87 on:** April 25, 2015, 12:25:13 AM »

Before or after paint? Or is it paint? If it's Monokote, that's easier, because you can make a cool sealed hinge with Monokote.

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #88 on:** April 25, 2015, 08:16:40 AM »

Quote from: Dane Martin on April 25, 2015, 12:25:13 AM

Before or after paint? Or is it paint? If it's Monokote, that's easier, because you can make a cool sealed hinge with Monokote.

After paint. I am using Rustoleum. I should have a full cure on all parts of the first two, the third is in primer still, but I was going with the same process.

I already know that cloth hinges and rustoleum do not get along well as the cloth loads up and becomes stiff and heavy beyond remedy. I have not tried laying in a string or other mask to protect the hinge material for painting.

RknRusty · « **Reply #89 on:** April 25, 2015, 09:12:56 AM »

Here's a pretty good stert
https://www.google.com/#safe=off&q=Tapeing+hinge+site:stunthanger.com

I've had scotch tape, the frosted looking type between my sewn Shoestring stab hinges for 3 years and it's holding up pretty well. I just laid it where I wanted it on the underside of the stab and used a toothpick to press it into the gap before sticking the edges down. That link should have info on the tapes made for the job.
Rusty

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #90 on:** April 25, 2015, 09:21:59 AM »

Quote from: RknRusty on April 25, 2015, 09:12:56 AM

Here's a pretty good stert
https://www.google.com/#safe=off&q=Tapeing+hinge+site:stunthanger.com

I've had scotch tape, the frosted looking type between my sewn Shoestring stab hinges for 3 years and it's holding up pretty well. I just laid it where I wanted it on the underside of the stab and used a toothpick to press it into the gap before sticking the edges down. That link should have info on the tapes made for the job.
Rusty

Thanks Rusty. Just what I needed!

Some of those threads also have a bunch of great one-liners.

RknRusty · « **Reply #91 on:** April 25, 2015, 09:13:58 PM »

Quote from: Phil Krankowski on April 25, 2015, 09:21:59 AM

Thanks Rusty. Just what I needed!

Some of those threads also have a bunch of great one-liners.

You're welcome, glad I could help.

Now this next bit is off topic, but seems like a good opportunity for some helpful info:
For those who don't know how to do a site specific search, here is how you can look for threads in only one website. Just append your Google search terms with the domain name(in this case, "stunthanger.com"). Leave off the "www" or "http" and all that junk. For instance, in the search I did for taping hinge lines, I typed the following into Google:
Taping hinge site:stunthanger.com
The search terms were "Taping Hinge" and the rest pointed it to this website. It could have just as well been clstunt.com or rcgroups.com. All Google results will then come from only the site you specify.

However Stunthanger searches are peculiar, when you follow the Google links, sometimes you get an archived version of the threads. If you want to see the thread in its original form, go up to the address bar and double click or highlight the address suffix where it says "wap2" then delete that little part and then hit enter... voila, you have the regular forum page. Others are printer friendly pages and don't have the wap2 sufix, which I have no trick for. BUt you can still read them in their plain text form.

I hope you guys find that helpful. I post that once in a while when it seems appropriate.
Now, Phil I will quit hijacking your thread and you can get back to business.
Rusty

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #92 on:** April 25, 2015, 09:38:11 PM »

http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php/topic,11355.msg99465.html#msg99465
this seems to have real dirt on what tape to buy
Phil

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #93 on:** April 29, 2015, 05:10:18 PM »

One done. The unaltered Flite Streak. I'll weigh and post a picture soon.

I drilled a 1 inch diameter weight box into the tail to cover with a 1 1/4 fender washer and #10 screw. I packed 3/4 oz of lead in it, and another 1/4 oz lead taped on the outside AND the steel hardware! It has a plain washer on it now, I have a painted one drying to put in place.

Hinge line sealed with Scotch clear tape.

HK 90cc clunk tank on the inboard side with a 1/4 inch dowel propping the front edge up (inboard side, remember)

Push rod adjusted for even throw. Now I don't have the measurement, but I will double check before I fly.

I am struggling to remember if I forgot anything...

Phil

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #94 on:** April 29, 2015, 08:51:02 PM »

30.6 ounces all-up dry weight. This is the to-plan flight streak.

RknRusty · « **Reply #95 on:** April 29, 2015, 09:29:51 PM »

Sounds like a good weight. Nice job, I love the bird-like Streak design in the traditional colors. I forgot if you said what engine, is it an LA25. I'd think that's about right with a 9x4 for starters. It's going to be fast.
Rusty

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #96 on:** April 30, 2015, 05:40:15 AM »

OS 25 LA
APC 9 x 4 prop
HK 90cc clunk tank

The ARF is billed in around 24 oz, so I might be a little heavy on this one. The other one is not going to be much different, and I don't know how the ARF rebuild will fall, my guess is similar too.

Phil

RknRusty · « **Reply #97 on:** April 30, 2015, 11:59:11 AM »

When you've got the power in a good package like an LA, weight isn't necessarily bad. It gives you a lot more authority in the wind, and the Streak's wings are plenty big enough to fly 30 ounces. It might turn out to be your most capable plane.
Rusty

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #98 on:** April 30, 2015, 12:00:02 PM »

Based on how close the stretched streak with the ARF wing is balancing today I may need NOSE weight in the one I only stretched the tail!

I am looking at about 1/2 oz tail weight on the stretched Flite streak using the numbers Tim Wescott gave me here
http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php/topic,36388.msg379699.html#msg379699

This likely means that without the nose stretched on the third plane, it will come out tail heavy even with the engine pushed all the way forward (about 1/2 inch).

We shall find out in a couple weeks as I get it finished.

Phil

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #99 on:** April 30, 2015, 12:06:29 PM »

Quote from: RknRusty on April 30, 2015, 11:59:11 AM

When you've got the power in a good package like an LA, weight isn't necessarily bad. It gives you a lot more authority in the wind, and the Streak's wings are plenty big enough to fly 30 ounces. It might turn out to be your most capable plane.
Rusty

I shall not be concerned about 30 oz then. There is nothing I can do about it at this point in time anyways.

I shall take my observations about the materials I used and build slightly differently in the future. I plainly see 6 ounces of weight between failed dope coating, repainting, wood that is on the hard side of balsa, use of heavier than needed glue in places, extra coats of paint that could have done without, and several other similar fractional ounce weight adders.

Phil