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Author Topic: Leadout Position Problem  (Read 3952 times)

Offline Chancey Chorney

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Leadout Position Problem
« on: December 14, 2016, 04:00:10 PM »
Hi all. So, I had just received an Enya 09 control line engine. It is truly a little gem, and needed a home for it. I was playing around with the idea of a Ringmaster Jr, Jr Flite Streak, or an Akromaster. After playing around online, I decided to build a 15 size Platter designed by one of our own. He had graciously given me some dimensions that were not exactly on the plans, and helped on a quick build. A couple of differences are that I used the included wedge tank given with the engine, as well as a 3" bellcrank as advised on another topic below. I used a plastic tooth 'flosser' embedded as a control horn. It balances slightly nose down right on the CG given by the designer. The only thing I am concerned about is how it looks when hung by the leadouts, as it hangs fairly nose down. Could someone please advise me if this is still alright. It does have some good offset engine built in, and is just a fun everyday flier for me, no stunt routine. Wingovers, possible loop if I can get it, etc. Thank you and enjoy the pictures as requested. I apologize for not having a build thread, but it went so quick I honestly forgot to take pictures. Thanks again.

Offline Chancey Chorney

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Re: Leadout Position Problem
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2016, 04:01:24 PM »
Oops. And the way it hangs by the leadouts.

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Leadout Position Problem
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2016, 04:45:06 PM »
Uh...yeah, too much. A few degrees, 5* max will work better. If you could move the BC forward (mounting it on the wing highpoint/optimal spar location is best) to where the CG is supposed to be would be a good start. Since you have no spars, that's out, but you do know where the CG is supposed to be. If the tank is in the way, move the BC aft to clear. Looks like a new LO guide is on your horizon. You may have trouble seeing your white saucer for the next few months, but it would work well as it is, in Spring > Fall.  @@^ Steve
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Offline Chancey Chorney

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Re: Leadout Position Problem
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2016, 05:41:45 PM »
So, if I understand you correctly, I could safely add another leadout guide more forward of its current location to make it better? Sorry for the dumb questions as I am still learning this stuff out. Thank you.

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Leadout Position Problem
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2016, 06:23:53 PM »
I AM NOT SURE, but I think the platter was designed as a trainer expendable bouncing air-frame, it is entirely possible that the lead-out position is deliberately aft because of the design. as in minimal side area to control yaw, so the designer implemented the far aft lead-outs to have security of line tension.
I would matchthe CG with the plans, then match the leadouts to the plans,, and fly it,, or contact the designer and ask the question...

wasnt the platter design originally an .049 powered beasty?
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Offline Chancey Chorney

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Re: Leadout Position Problem
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2016, 06:28:23 PM »
I AM NOT SURE, but I think the platter was designed as a trainer expendable bouncing air-frame, it is entirely possible that the lead-out position is deliberately aft because of the design. as in minimal side area to control yaw, so the designer implemented the far aft lead-outs to have security of line tension.
I would matchthe CG with the plans, then match the leadouts to the plans,, and fly it,, or contact the designer and ask the question...

wasnt the platter design originally an .049 powered beasty?


Why yes indeed it was designed as such. Originally designed to use foamboard and an 049 engine and durable. This was an upsized one done by one of our fellow members here for a 15 size engine, but I put a 09 on this one and AUW is just under 13 ounces. Good idea, I will contact the designer again. Thank you.

Offline RknRusty

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Re: Leadout Position Problem
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2016, 08:34:12 PM »
Hi Chancey. Those platters are usually designed to have radical yaw out, so considering what it is, I say go fly it and see what happens. Your engine thrust is not as wildly offest as most platters I've seen, so that may be good on this one. I think the leadout guide could be moved if you want to experiment after a test flight. If you design one yourself, it would probably be better to place the bellcrank more forward.

Here's my Kitty Kat I built when my 8 y/o neighbor asked me to make her a plane that looked like a cat. My son says it looks like a tick.

It balances at the front leadout and even flew great when she let go of the handle. The maple tree caught the handle as it was about to fly over my house.
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Offline Chancey Chorney

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Re: Leadout Position Problem
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2016, 09:13:04 PM »
Awesome. Thank you Rusty for the confidence. I will however have to wait until the spring so I can bench run and tune the engine. As well, the snow must be gone too!

Offline WR Crane aka MrClean

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Re: Leadout Position Problem
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2016, 10:15:29 AM »
Oh, that's what you mean by hanging nose down from the leadout.  I think the original idea was to make sure the plane stayed pointed out.  Anyways the 15 size is just a blown up of the .049 size and it seemed to fly fine.  lYou'd get more speed mounting it straighter but speed is not what we're going for.   You made it out of coro, it'll bounce good.  Give it a shot and mod to your desires.  Looks good and is definitely different then most things you see in the air.  Test it and let us know.  Please don't tell me that you live up north and it will be 8 months before we find out.

Offline RknRusty

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Re: Leadout Position Problem
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2016, 10:28:30 AM »
...Please don't tell me that you live up north and it will be 8 months before we find out.
He did and it will be Lol. I'm sure glad I live below the snow belt. I want to see the thing fly too. Maybe I'll toss my Kitty Cat for a fun flight. It only flew the one day I helped my neighbor friend play with it. It'll do loops, but they're more like stall loops.
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
www.coxengineforum.com

Offline Russell Shaffer

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Re: Leadout Position Problem
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2016, 05:01:17 PM »
Here's my granddaughter with "Watermelon".  It's 24 inches diameter with a Fox 19.  It flies well and will loop if you are careful but it stalls easily.  I think 24 inches is about as large as you can go with one layer of unreinforced coroplast. You can't see in the photo but it has a single wheel gear and a rudder with a little offset.  It is a little goofy on takeoff and the glide is poor.  It hangs slightly nose down from the leadouts - might be better on takeoff if I moved them back some.
Russell Shaffer
Klamath Falls, Oregon
Just North of the California border

Offline Chancey Chorney

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Re: Leadout Position Problem
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2016, 06:17:11 PM »
He did and it will be Lol. I'm sure glad I live below the snow belt. I want to see the thing fly too. Maybe I'll toss my Kitty Cat for a fun flight. It only flew the one day I helped my neighbor friend play with it. It'll do loops, but they're more like stall loops.


Thanks Rusty for the laugh in the reply to MrClean. Really needed it after today's events.

Offline Chancey Chorney

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Re: Leadout Position Problem
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2016, 06:19:39 PM »
I would like to say 'Thank You' to MrClean for designing this great flying object, and as well as helping me along the way by taking his time and answering the few questions I had regarding the design, and others.

Thank you!

And yes, unfortunately,it will not be until spring, as I have to run the engine in, and find somewhere to fly it closer to home. But I will definatly post how it goes.

Offline Chancey Chorney

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Re: Leadout Position Problem
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2016, 06:23:00 PM »
Here's my granddaughter with "Watermelon".  It's 24 inches diameter with a Fox 19.  It flies well and will loop if you are careful but it stalls easily.  I think 24 inches is about as large as you can go with one layer of unreinforced coroplast. You can't see in the photo but it has a single wheel gear and a rudder with a little offset.  It is a little goofy on takeoff and the glide is poor.  It hangs slightly nose down from the leadouts - might be better on takeoff if I moved them back some.

So, if my eyes are not deceiving me, would I be correct to assume that your 'Watermelon' is just one piece of coroplast without any coroplast doublers on either top or bottom? I did not honestly think that it would be possible to have such a big circle without reinforcement. Unless. as I am typing I just thought of this, is if the 'flutes' are running lengthwise vs. spanwise as on mine.

Offline Russell Shaffer

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Re: Leadout Position Problem
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2016, 07:42:35 PM »
The flutes do run spanwise and it is one piece.  It is kind of floppy but this is probably my third platter and none has ever folded up.  The motor mount is a piece of 1/4 inch aluminum bolted and glued and when the platter gets too beat up I just cut out another and move the mount to the new one.  This one has even flown with a Stunt 35 and wasn't too fast.  Must be a lot of drag with these round things.
Russell Shaffer
Klamath Falls, Oregon
Just North of the California border

Offline Chancey Chorney

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Re: Leadout Position Problem
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2016, 08:15:40 PM »
Thank you.

Offline Chancey Chorney

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Re: Leadout Position Problem
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2016, 08:17:19 PM »
Oh, and one more thing. What size and length of lines should be used? It is a 18" Platter, 09 powered, and weighs 13 ounces.

Offline Chancey Chorney

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Re: Leadout Position Problem
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2016, 08:42:46 PM »
After a bit of searching, it would appear that 45 foot lines in .015 diameter would work. Sorry for the stupid question.

Offline Russell Shaffer

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Re: Leadout Position Problem
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2016, 02:09:08 PM »
Chancey, there is a 1/4 plywood center strip that the bellcrank and engine mount attach to.  Keeps it from folding lengthwise.  You can barely see it in the photo.
Russell Shaffer
Klamath Falls, Oregon
Just North of the California border


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