Author Topic: How do you buy your balsa wood? (Read 8392 times)

TigreST · « **on:** January 18, 2017, 09:21:03 AM »

Many of you no doubt have found a local hobby shop that can supply good balsa for you to choose from. The ideal situation would be that this shop or supplier in close by. For me it seems as if it will take some effort and time to do something similar and hours in the car may be required to do a hands on visual inspection of the wood (that is the best way to be sure). One of the easy answers is of course mail order, but who do you trust to send you good wood and not the stuff that Sterling Models was most likely to supply in their kits from days gone by? I'm tempted to order up wood in a bulk order and take my chances, but maybe there is a better way or a vender that is a known provider of good lumber.

Perhaps this info is available via the Vendor area on site here, and it's only a matter of making contact and asking the question there. Sorry if that is the case.

Thanks for any commentary on the topic.

Allan Perret · « **Reply #1 on:** January 18, 2017, 09:34:51 AM »

Order with confidence from Tom Morris [Stunt Hangar Hobby]. Its all contest wood..

http://stunthanger.com/hobby/

Motorman · « **Reply #2 on:** January 18, 2017, 09:37:31 AM »

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Tim Wescott · « **Reply #3 on:** January 18, 2017, 09:50:11 AM »

Quote from: TigreST on January 18, 2017, 09:21:03 AM

Many of you no doubt have found a local hobby shop that can supply good balsa for you to choose from. The ideal situation would be that this shop or supplier in close by.

National Balsa. Only 2500 miles away by car. Oh, did I mention that they ship?

I have not yet taken advantage of their "custom order" service, but if I needed something specific I certainly would. In the mean time, if I order from the "whatever" pile then by the time I'm done sorting I have everything that I need, and their contest-weight wood is less than wood at the LHS.

If you feel that you absolutely must buy "by hand", look to balsa at craft stores (Michaels, Hobby Lobby, etc.). Most of the people buying balsa don't want the "weak punky wood", so it's common for all the 12-pound stuff to be long gone by the time you get there. Don't expect to find anything below 7 pounds (you won't at your LHS), but there's lots of good stuff at the bottom end of "medium weight".

Given how few people build these days, the economics of hand-selecting wood from a LHS (even a craft store) just doesn't pencil out for you or for the LHS owner. Find a mail-order place that hand-selects wood and knows the difference between A-grain and appalling. Even if you don't factor in the gas money and your time, you'll save money over the prices at your LHS.

TigreST · « **Reply #4 on:** January 18, 2017, 01:56:53 PM »

Thanks for the tips and connections gentlemen. Sad to say Ty, but when I "get out of town" it's normally on the machine shown below....

....which, although extremely fun, does not haul balsawood very well at all, ha ha (but it is kinda like flying! That's US-129 "The Tail of the Dragon" if your wondering.)

I'll start hitting the local craft outlets and some of the DIY lumber yards and big box stores that carry "craft wood" materials. As you suggest the "craft types" may have picked over all the sturdy material leaving the light wood behind. Over time I should be able to amass a half assed selection of good wood. That said, I'm something of a "buy in bulk/one stop shopper" kinda guy" so Tom and others may also be brought into the mix for sure.

During a short search I did I stumbled across this link: http://www.balsawoodinc.com/ I have no idea about what the service is like as compared to other vendors but though I'd pass it along.

Thanks guys.

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #5 on:** January 18, 2017, 04:12:10 PM »

I'll bet that those panniers are more than 36" across. That means that if you strap a carry-case on there that's big enough for 3" x 36" balsa, it won't make your bike any wider.

Just a thought. You could even paint it bright red.

George Truett · « **Reply #6 on:** January 18, 2017, 05:09:01 PM »

Since the close of Lone Star I have bought quite a bit of balsa from National as Tim suggested. They're in MA probably a lot closer to you than 2500 miles. National has contest grade wood they call Aero Light bargain grade, very light but has stains/spots, doesn't matter to me since I paint everything. Recently I bought some very nice balsa that came from Bud Nosen models. They have a catalog on their site but you have to write for prices. They're in MN I think and judging by the balsa I bought worth looking in to. I have had no luck buying locally. George

tom brightbill · « **Reply #7 on:** January 18, 2017, 05:47:00 PM »

Tiger, Keep your eye out for a blue Triumph Sprint GT, with a box on the back that's big enough to hold a take-a-part ThunderGazer. I'll be in your neighborhood in July, doing a Portland to Portland to Portland ride. Like Tim said, build a box, it gives you an excuse to go fetch some wood!
Shinny side up!
Tom

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #8 on:** January 18, 2017, 05:59:23 PM »

So, Tom, when are you going to be testing out that box by coming to our local field on your bike?

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #9 on:** January 18, 2017, 10:13:33 PM »

Quote from: Tim Wescott on January 18, 2017, 05:59:23 PM

So, Tom, when are you going to be testing out that box by coming to our local field on your bike?

Or making a trek east, it would be a great weekend jaunt,,
ok so once the snow melts anyway,,

TigreST · « **Reply #10 on:** January 19, 2017, 05:00:28 AM »

Quote from: Tim Wescott on January 18, 2017, 04:12:10 PM

I'll bet that those panniers are more than 36" across. That means that if you strap a carry-case on there that's big enough for 3" x 36" balsa, it won't make your bike any wider.

Just a thought. You could even paint it bright red.

Most likely that would work Tim, but the riding I do with my normal cadre is not conducive to hauling balsawood around the mountains of the southern states. There was a time when I would hit the Detroit area on a semi regular basis in search of plastic model kits and supplies. I guess I could do that again in the quest for good balsawood. I guess I've come somewhat accustom to the "point and click" of the inter-net sale process.

Thanks gents.

Paul Smith · « **Reply #11 on:** January 19, 2017, 07:23:23 AM »

I buy from Balsa USA, on the border of Wisconsin and the UP. They custom-cut and ship without delay. You can also pre-order and pick up at the Toledo RC Show.

If you live on the Bruce Peninsula, you can do like most of the natives and have your stuff delivered to the boat in Marine City/Sombra.

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #12 on:** January 19, 2017, 09:16:32 AM »

Does Balsa USA have contest-weight wood?

Walter Hicks · « **Reply #13 on:** January 19, 2017, 09:44:54 AM »

For the most fool proof way do what has already been mentioned Tom Morris balsa you will get only very good wood just as he advertised including
very good 1" etc. It is ALL contest wood takes out the guess work and does not waste money and time.

Paul Smith · « **Reply #14 on:** January 19, 2017, 10:57:20 AM »

Quote from: Tim Wescott on January 19, 2017, 09:16:32 AM

Does Balsa USA have contest-weight wood?

I build planes with their wood and enter contests.

What do you call "contest weight"?

I guess those who only want the lightest 10% of the wood must be prepared to pay a hefty premium.
Likewise, those who accept the luck of the draw have every right to expect a very deep discount.

Fredvon4 · « **Reply #15 on:** January 19, 2017, 11:55:12 AM »

Between Tom Morris and SigMfg...I can get most of what I need to finish out short kits with the recommended grain and weights....I am still learning how to properly identify the differing grain patterns

FWIIW SigMfg has a great selection including C grain, Very hard, and Contest selections---- as well as many common LE profiles still in production

I miss Lone Star balsa.
I have bought some from hobby lobby but it is totally hit and miss with size and selection...I have not yet cracked the code on order and delivery to my only local source--- the hobby Lobby

My personal LHS never restocks his MidWest bins, as he is focused on RC glow and electric car racing... sort of OK selection of DuBro stuff... but totally lacking in anything relating to our aircraft hobbies...that is if you ignore the many many multi rotor PNPs...grin

I did score a huge amount of very good stick and sheet balsa at a local swap meet. Mostly large RC aircraft partial or unbuilt kits... example a Lanier RC Giles 202 partial build, and a Top Flite DC3 (84" wingspan) unbuilt.

I paid a ridiculously low price at the end of the swap meet for both these kits and the selection of stick and sheet balsa took me day to sort and catalog....

A Task IMO that is absolutely necessary .... to do a scratch build or add in your wood to a short kit....

For some reason we are a very frugal bunch and IMO that is not a bad thing...

BTW I needed a specific weight and grain for a particular short kit build out and sent Tom Morris the specs of the desired balsa...he did a super job of picking and identifying each piece he sold me

To do this year:
Gut two shops, redo floors, as well as re distribute everything for more efficient layout
Downdraft sanding table
Clamp caddy
Computer inventory of 26 Lbs and many cubic feet of Balsa
Design and build a Well designed horizontal bin, storage for the Balsa
Acquire a selection of .077 balsa sheet

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #16 on:** January 19, 2017, 12:05:33 PM »

Quote from: Paul Smith on January 19, 2017, 10:57:20 AM

What do you call "contest weight"?

What absolutely everyone else in the world does -- 6lb or less.

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #17 on:** January 23, 2017, 02:13:32 PM »

Varley told me that he got an order of balsa ordered from SH Hobby that was shipped direct from Bud Nosen. I haven't checked lately, but I believe he is in Las Vegas, and doesn't do retail sales, FWIW. I have bought some Bud Nosen balsa (from a LHS in N. Seattle, "Brewster's") that was real nice stuff...and straight, too.

Steve

Russell Shaffer · « **Reply #18 on:** January 23, 2017, 08:09:12 PM »

I bought 20 sheets of 1/16 X 3 with Midwest stickers from Michaels a while back. It weighed out as 5 pound and I had a 25% off coupon for the whole purchase. No shipping either so the price worked out. Of course, much of the rest of the bin could have been mistaken for pine.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #19 on:** January 23, 2017, 09:19:27 PM »

Would you believe the last several batches of balsa I bought off the bay came from Florida and it all was great, straight and light.

Also got some spruce and balsa from the NE area.

Dane Martin · « **Reply #20 on:** January 25, 2017, 05:55:38 PM »

Quote from: George Truett on January 18, 2017, 05:09:01 PM

....Recently I bought some very nice balsa that came from Bud Nosen models. They have a catalog on their site but you have to write for prices. They're in MN I think and judging by the balsa I bought worth looking in to. I have had no luck buying locally. George

My favorite plane I ever had was a 144" piper cub built from a Bud Nosen kit. It finally met the maker in a wing strut failure in a hard turn.

All the suggestions above are great, and accurate.
So I'll add one more. If you Call SIG, they will hand select balsa for you. Cost is a little more, but not much. That's what several of the builders in Las Vegas have been doing. Believe it or not, there's some "more experienced gentlemen" here that still build.

*not old. That might sound discriminatory. .....

Russell · « **Reply #21 on:** February 02, 2017, 09:13:36 PM »

Brodak.com can't cut an engine mount beams to save their life. Both in kits and bought seperately they are POS!

john e. holliday · « **Reply #22 on:** February 02, 2017, 09:21:24 PM »

Have you contacted John about this? I've not had a bad engine mount material in any of my kits. I still have a couple of the composite mounts that I haven't used.

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #23 on:** February 03, 2017, 10:11:07 AM »

I've been very pleased with the engine mount wood I've gotten from Brodak. What specific issues trouble you about them?

Fredvon4 · « **Reply #24 on:** February 03, 2017, 01:12:51 PM »

Maple motor mount issues divert a bit from the subject But I agree with CL Flyer above

Not too sure who is the real blame* for poor motor mount Rock Maple selection in the kits, or sold separate...and for sure not just Brodak

I have culled out or had to dimensional fix a lot of supplied motor mounts.. too fat.. ( too thin can NOT be fixed) poor piece of wood (warped, knots, trapezoid), too short..also can' be fixed, ill cut angle into fuselage and doublet cutouts

I got real aggravated with this detail...for what I PERSONALLY CONSIDER a critical dimension KIT piece...so a while back I just bought 6 each 3/4"x 3/4" x 36" sticks, graded the grain, cut out any knots, and played with grain orientation to cut down my own motor mounts to match the plan or supplied fuselage cutouts

* I am pretty sure the kit makers buy pre cut stock and (might) re cut for any specific kit...length, maybe width and any bevel/angle to key to the fuselage
I am also sure the bulk stock they buy may have been cut in the line, out side, or inside, and the final dimension is off by blade kerf so a lot of so called 1/2" x 3/8th " by 6" long pieces are NOT accurately cut

Some of the fitting error is not just the motor mount but the cut out in the fuselage (usually to large)...again I can deal with too small

Too often I find:

Knots in bad places
Cork screwed,
too thin ( I can deal with too fat) in one or more dimensions
Too short (again I can deal easily with too long)

These are the typical errors I see from most kit suppliers I use

NO I did not complain to them, well except Erik Rule, who Immediately supplied the MISSING maple mounts from the 1/2a Stuka kit

And yes from my experience with any of the kit folks--- I know they would gladly send me a replacement set of parts

Just was easier, for me, back a few years to get a good supply of Hard maple and machine my own to fit Precisely

Of course the helps me to justify the cost of the wood working shop and the expensive tooling, blades, sleds, and fixtures

Grin

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #25 on:** February 03, 2017, 03:05:04 PM »

So, yes, we're drifting off topic.

Interesting! The only motor mount wood I've run across that didn't pass my cut has been in a Top Flite kit. Anything I've ordered from Brodak or National has been up to my standards.

But -- I think Fred may be more picky than me. I'm willing to accept that a kit-stick isn't necessarily fit into the notches that are cut for it. I prefer that, if anything, the notches be cut a bit small so I can fit things, but I've certainly put kits together with shims in notches, or with new parts that have narrower notches.

Some of the absolute top guys use aluminum motor mounts, with lightening holes drilled every which way and epoxied into the fuse. I absolutely don't know how well it works, but if you're that focused on perfection, it's something to think about.

Russell · « **Reply #26 on:** February 03, 2017, 03:12:14 PM »

Brodak staff and I including John had a several quality control emails with returned/replaced parts. Fredvon4 describes the issues very well.

It's my thought that internet customers purposely are used to dump what should be trashed. No matter helpfully you try and return something and give feedback can't help if staff doesn't blacklist you and the service gets worse after that. What's a person to do?

Ordering a Plan from PAMPA has turned into fiasco now, but that's another story. This kind of stuff will keep a newbie away for sure.

Quote from: Fredvon4 on February 03, 2017, 01:12:51 PM

Maple motor mount issues divert a bit from the subject But I agree with CL Flyer above

Not too sure who is the real blame* for poor motor mount Rock Maple selection in the kits, or sold separate...and for sure not just Brodak

I have culled out or had to dimensional fix a lot of supplied motor mounts.. too fat.. ( too thin can NOT be fixed) poor piece of wood (warped, knots, trapezoid), too short..also can' be fixed, ill cut angle into fuselage and doublet cutouts

I got real aggravated with this detail...for what I PERSONALLY CONSIDER a critical dimension KIT piece...so a while back I just bought 6 each 3/4"x 3/4" x 36" sticks, graded the grain, cut out any knots, and played with grain orientation to cut down my own motor mounts to match the plan or supplied fuselage cutouts

* I am pretty sure the kit makers buy pre cut stock and (might) re cut for any specific kit...length, maybe width and any bevel/angle to key to the fuselage
I am also sure the bulk stock they buy may have been cut in the line, out side, or inside, and the final dimension is off by blade kerf so a lot of so called 1/2" x 3/8th " by 6" long pieces are NOT accurately cut

Some of the fitting error is not just the motor mount but the cut out in the fuselage (usually to large)...again I can deal with too small

Too often I find:

Knots in bad places
Cork screwed,
too thin ( I can deal with too fat) in one or more dimensions
Too short (again I can deal easily with too long)

These are the typical errors I see from most kit suppliers I use

NO I did not complain to them, well except Erik Rule, who Immediately supplied the MISSING maple mounts from the 1/2a Stuka kit

And yes from my experience with any of the kit folks--- I know they would gladly send me a replacement set of parts

Just was easier, for me, back a few years to get a good supply of Hard maple and machine my own to fit Precisely

Of course the helps me to justify the cost of the wood working shop and the expensive tooling, blades, sleds, and fixtures

Grin

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #27 on:** February 03, 2017, 04:27:44 PM »

Quote from: Tim Wescott on February 03, 2017, 03:05:04 PM

So, yes, we're drifting off topic.

Interesting! The only motor mount wood I've run across that didn't pass my cut has been in a Top Flite kit. Anything I've ordered from Brodak or National has been up to my standards.

But -- I think Fred may be more picky than me. I'm willing to accept that a kit-stick isn't necessarily fit into the notches that are cut for it. I prefer that, if anything, the notches be cut a bit small so I can fit things, but I've certainly put kits together with shims in notches, or with new parts that have narrower notches.

Some of the absolute top guys use aluminum motor mounts, with lightening holes drilled every which way and epoxied into the fuse. I absolutely don't know how well it works, but if you're that focused on perfection, it's something to think about.

Ask Randy Powell bout his ultra rigid carbon fiber motor mounts and the issues he had, Paul W tried Carbon motor plates for his electrics and went away from them, the rigidity transfered to much vibration I beleive. I think the B-17 was at one point determined to have to rigid of motor mounts? and of course Howard has the infamous flaps that are to rigid,, so I guess it is possible to be to rigid,, ( hmm My girlfriend tells me that too,, ) but I think thats about my opinion?