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Author Topic: Brodak profile Oriental revisions  (Read 24695 times)

Offline Steven Kientz

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Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« on: January 23, 2016, 01:57:49 PM »
Just picked up a profile Oriental from Brodak. They have included the hardware for an adj. leadout guide. Is there anything else I should do, as far as revisions? Power will be LA40/46. I was thinking lucky boxes(flaps & elevator?). I will be using alum. motor pads. Also CF( arrow shaft ) pushrod. Tom Morris control horns?

thanks
Steve
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Offline Alan Buck

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2016, 02:13:12 PM »
Steve  make the stab out a heavy piece of 3/8''
 1/4'' stab broke in wingover pullout  and you need
 the weight in the back with a la40/46  good weight
 is 39 to 43ozs
ALAN E BUCK

Offline Steven Kientz

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2016, 02:17:43 PM »
Thanks Alan
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Offline RknRusty

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2016, 11:57:39 PM »
Steven, if you do leave the stab as-is, the fix for imminent breakage at the root is a 1/2 or 3/8 triangular balsa fillet underneath each side. That's a must-do mod.

Add a 1/8"ply doubler under the LG mount. Wrap and epoxy fiberglass inside, under the LG mount area, and continue it around onto the sides of the fuse in that compartment. Then drill for three 4-40 bolts with blind nuts and washers to secure the LG rather than the wood screws. Two bolts in front, one in rear.

The flap hinge cutouts are a terrible weak point in the fuse and I would strengthen that area on the outside with fiberglass and epoxy too. Since the hinge lines are not swept at an angle, lucky boxes would accomplish nothing but more work.

Secure the flap wire axle with a u-retainer on each side out side of the little balsa fairings. They are supposed to retain it from flexing, but some 1/16" wire bent into a u and epoxied in to add strength made me feel better about mine.

All the chinakote seams are on the edges of wing, flaps, everything. Tape them down all over the plane with clear tape, or it'll come off in a few flights.

I slit the vertical rear of the fuse and installed a 1/2"(I think) spreader block to give you more room to work in there and make future adjustments. I built lead weight into the vertical spreader block. It still may not allow a ball link to fit. But get a good Sullivan clevis, as the one in the kit will break the second time you try to spread it for adjusting. I made a trap door over that area on the side of the fuse too. I sleeved the long rod with CF tube to prevent flexing.

It's getting late, I'll add more later.
Rusty
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Offline BillP

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2016, 08:31:24 AM »
About wing mounted or solid strut landing gear...Use nylon screws instead of steel and you won't bust the plane up as easy during hard landings or crashes. The nylon will shear off and release the gear. The broken stud is easily unscrewed if you knock the gear off.  No need for blind nuts, just tap the hard wood. I use 1/4" diameter pan heads (2 per single solid strut) on planes up to 60 size. They don't break easy so don't oversize...

bp
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Offline Steven Kientz

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2016, 10:58:53 AM »
Thanks to all.
Steve
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Offline Balsa Butcher

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2016, 04:17:38 PM »
 It seems as if one of the posts is referring to the full body ARF. Since your is the profile kit w/fuselage mounted gear, many of these suggestions will not apply. As  far as the fuselage gear, inlay some hardwood motor mount stock where it mounts between the ply doublers so the mounting holes are in hardwood, not through balsa. This applies whether you use wire of alum gear. The nylon 4/40 bolt suggestion is worth pursuing. It has saved me a few planes.

Lucky boxes not necessary in this design, just build it according to plans. An adjustable tank mount is necessary, ask for details when you get there if you have never done one. Thicker stab not a bad idea but I'd use the thinner elevators-your choice. As far as weight goes, lighter is better of course but if it comes out a bit heavy don't sweat it. Most do, it will still be a good flier.  8)
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Offline RknRusty

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2016, 09:18:22 PM »
It seems as if one of the posts is referring to the full body ARF. Since your is the profile kit w/fuselage mounted gear, many of these suggestions will not apply. As  far as the fuselage gear, inlay some hardwood motor mount stock where it mounts between the ply doublers so the mounting holes are in hardwood, not through balsa. This applies whether you use wire of alum gear. The nylon 4/40 bolt suggestion is worth pursuing. It has saved me a few planes.

Lucky boxes not necessary in this design, just build it according to plans. An adjustable tank mount is necessary, ask for details when you get there if you have never done one. Thicker stab not a bad idea but I'd use the thinner elevators-your choice. As far as weight goes, lighter is better of course but if it comes out a bit heavy don't sweat it. Most do, it will still be a good flier.  8)
Oh, quite right Butcher. In my enthusiasm to discuss Orientals, I forgot we were talking profile. DOH! Sorry about that.
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Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2016, 10:14:01 PM »
Thats not a Oriental . THIS is an Oriental .  :## VD~ http://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/vee-haff-dee-rice-zee-oriental/

put thison the other day . Original artical maybe legable , in parts .  >:(

Harder Quater'd do it . Generally soft 3/8 or firm quater , bout the same weight.

Offline Adam micheal Collver

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2016, 12:31:30 PM »
im building the profile version as well , using an la 46 for power now for this engine and plane what size of tank and how long of lines.

thanks

Offline Leester

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2016, 02:21:17 PM »
Hi Adam: A 4oz tank usually does the job, just remember this plane was designed for a Fox 35 so you'll want to run your's on the bench with 4oz's of fuel and see if that's going to be enough. I flew my ARF Oriental with a L&J Fox 35 on 60' lines eye to eye. Good Luck !! y1 y1 y1
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Offline Geoff Goodworth

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2016, 03:23:01 PM »
I'm running a Brodak 40 in my ARF full fuselage Oriental and it required a little bit of tail weight—can't remember how much now. I think that FP and LA engines are way too heavy.

Offline Balsa Butcher

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2016, 08:30:25 PM »
For an LA-46 I'd suggest (based on experience) a 4.5 ounce tank if you have room for it. An LA-46 should about right balance wise for the profile Oriental. If it looks as if it may be coming out nose heavy one can shorten the nose by about 1/2". A B-40 would be a good choice as well if you have one. The motor mount spacing and bolt pattern is the same on both engines so you can have it both ways. 8)
« Last Edit: January 26, 2016, 11:05:13 AM by Balsa Butcher »
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Offline Mark Mc

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2016, 01:35:07 PM »
So for balance purposes, the LA-46 is a good choice?  But, if it was originally designed for a Fox .35, wouldn't a LA-25 be about right?  just wwondering.  I have one coming from Brodak also.

Mark

Offline Steven Kientz

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2016, 02:51:55 PM »
I'm considering replacing the kit supplied fuselage. I've used Windex and weight twice, it still has a warp. From the TE of the wing cutout to the nose it has a 1/4" bow. No big deal to laminate 2pcs  1/4" balsa with a basswood spine. I'm afraid if I do get rid  of the warp, it might show up again in the finishing process. I've been using Minwax polycrilic to seal and then spray rustoleum . Any thoughts?
later
Steve
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Offline Geoff Goodworth

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2016, 05:01:08 PM »
Steve, if you are going to that trouble, build a box fuselage for it.

Offline Steven Kientz

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2016, 06:11:48 PM »
I'm pretty sure I crash too much for anything other than a profile. Hopefully later this year I'll be past that.

Steve
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Offline Balsa Butcher

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2016, 07:01:32 PM »
Most Classic models that were designed for Fox 35s are being up-engined with larger engines, the LA-46 being the most popular. Best choice IMHO is an Aero Tiger 36 but that's for another thread. Sometimes the nose is shortened for the LA-46, sometimes not. A Fox or LA-25 will work but the extra power of a 46 or AT-36 is nice, especially on a windy or if your plane ends up heavier than you intended...(not that that ever happens  HB~>8)
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Offline BillP

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2016, 07:22:42 PM »
I'm considering replacing the kit supplied fuselage. I've used Windex and weight twice, it still has a warp. From the TE of the wing cutout to the nose it has a 1/4" bow. No big deal to laminate 2pcs  1/4" balsa with a basswood spine. I'm afraid if I do get rid  of the warp, it might show up again in the finishing process. I've been using Minwax polycrilic to seal and then spray rustoleum . Any thoughts?
later
Steve

Yep, building a new profile fuse is way easier than dealing with a warped one...but call Brodak and they will most likely send a new fuse no charge.   
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Offline Balsa Butcher

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2016, 11:33:27 PM »
Windex and weights have never worked for me either. You may want to try the old free flight trick of dragging the bowed piece of wood across the edge of a deck or work bench. The outer bow is the part that will make contact. It will change the curve although it may take a few tries to get it straight. Another option is some creative sanding of the aft portion of the fuselage. Most builders put a bit of a taper in the aft fuselage so if the warp isn't too severe you may be be able to straighten it that way.

A 1/4 laminate with a basswood top would work and be strong. My preference would still be a straight piece of medium density 1/2" cut in half lengthwise with a 1/8 x 12" basswood insert sandwiched and epoxied between the two. More than one way to skin a cat (with apologies to Boodles, my workshop feline).  8)


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Offline Steven Kientz

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2016, 03:09:33 PM »
With the sale that Brodak is running I hate to ask for a replacement. Dug into a box of balsa and found a balsa/bass laminate fuselage blank I made earlier this year. It has the rudder started(angular), but otherwise its a clean slate. I'm considering lengthening the tail by 1". That should help with the "possible nose heavy" with the LA46. I've been using some flat alum gear I bent up on my other planes, maybe I'd better go 2" longer. Seems everything I flew/crashed last year had "lotta' tail weight.

Steve
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2016, 03:57:27 PM »
I'm considering replacing the kit supplied fuselage. I've used Windex and weight twice, it still has a warp. From the TE of the wing cutout to the nose it has a 1/4" bow. No big deal to laminate 2pcs  1/4" balsa with a basswood spine. I'm afraid if I do get rid  of the warp, it might show up again in the finishing process. I've been using Minwax polycrilic to seal and then spray rustoleum . Any thoughts?
later
Steve
contact John Brodak, he stands behind his product, he will likely provide you a replacement fuse
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Offline Motorman

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2016, 05:18:02 PM »
Soak the fuselage in hot water then lay it out with weights.

MM

Offline Adam micheal Collver

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2016, 05:41:29 AM »
ill be using regular dubro hinges on mine what would be the spacing? im also thinking about using a hard point handle for this plane . how do i set the bell crank and lead outs up so theres not alot of difference in the lines ?

thanks
adam

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2016, 05:31:39 PM »
Lots of guys will put two regular sized (pinned) hinges at the tip of each flap (bad place to have a failure) and probably a total of 4 per flap and 3 per elevator. I'm kinda shocked that this isn't shown on the plans....

Absolutely, use a hard point handle. I changed to a hard-point and didn't really notice a big change until I changed back to a cable handle out of necessity. WOW!

Some guys (like Paul Walker) make one leadout about 5" longer than the other. This does two things, 1) making it so the clips cannot possibly catch on each other, and b) making it blatantly obvious if you've got the lines hooked up backwards. You can make a simple jig out of a short piece of wood and two small brads. Use the same jig for doing the LO's and the lines.  :) Steve
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Offline RknRusty

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2016, 09:13:41 PM »
ill be using regular dubro hinges on mine what would be the spacing? im also thinking about using a hard point handle for this plane . how do i set the bell crank and lead outs up so theres not alot of difference in the lines ?

thanks
adam
If you mean how to be sure the bellcrank is exactly neutral when you connect them to the control horns, here's my method:
pull one line tight and make a mark on the rod with a sharpie. Transfer the position of the mark to a convenient place on the wing or fuselage. Then pull the other line tight so the bellcrank and rod are at the other end of their throw, and transfer the mark from the rod to that position. Then put a mark halfway in between the two. When the mark on the rod is aligned with the center mark, it's always neutral.
I hope that has something to do with your question.
Rusty
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2016, 10:13:04 AM »
This works if the bell crank stops are the same.   Before I plank the center section I mark the pushrod.   I've done it Rusty's way in the past.  Just finished hooking up push rod on my Fokker D-VII.
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Offline Don Jenkins

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2016, 02:42:19 PM »
I started on a Brodak Oriental profile last week.  This one will have the landing gear in the wing with Randy Smith CF wheels pants, an OS Max .35 stunt with an ABC conversion, a Tom Morris ball link control system with a 4 inch bell crank, and I plan on finishing it with epoxy paint and an auto clear.  The kit is pretty nice with good wood and its going together well.  The wing is done except for the flaps, but they are next.  I hope to be done within the next week or two with construction. 

Don

Offline Don Jenkins

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2016, 07:05:09 AM »
The winter project is coming along nicely, and I'm trying to get this one done for profile competition at the end of April.  Its all fit up (wing and tail not glued) and I'm ready to cover the fuselage, flaps and tail with 3/4 ounce glass cloth and epoxy resin.  Then I'll glue it together and cover the wing with dope and silk span, then epoxy paint and auto clear.  This is my first attempt at a finish other than dope, so wish me luck!

Don

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2016, 07:09:04 AM »
Don,

Aren't Epoxy base paints fuel proof? Two part mix?

If so, you may not need the final clear coat.

When we were using the K&B Epoxy paints, a clear coat wasn't necessary.

Nice looking model.

Charles

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Offline RknRusty

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2016, 09:37:17 PM »
That's looking nice Don, your planes always do. That Scorpio sure looked good in the air last weekend.
Did that Oriental come with a 3" or 4" bellcrank? My ARF came with a 4" but I used a 3" instead. Not sure if that was a mistake or not.

Hope you don't mind if I post a pic of the Scrorpio. Here it is last weekend.
Not too bad for a cell phone pic

DON'T PANIC!
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... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2016, 09:52:25 AM »
Great shots. :) :) :)
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Offline RknRusty

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2016, 10:31:48 AM »
Great shots. :) :) :)
Thanks Doc. Modern tech can make us all look like photo journalists nowadays Lol. Sure beats expensive rolls of film and a darkroom. Or the drugstore film drop.
Rusty
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Offline Don Jenkins

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #33 on: March 06, 2016, 05:55:45 AM »
Don,

Aren't Epoxy base paints fuel proof? Two part mix?

If so, you may not need the final clear coat.

When we were using the K&B Epoxy paints, a clear coat wasn't necessary.

Nice looking model.

Charles

I believe the Epoxy paints are fuel proof, but the clear really makes a deep shine once buffed out, and it only takes one coat.

Don



Offline Don Jenkins

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #34 on: March 06, 2016, 05:59:28 AM »
That's looking nice Don, your planes always do. That Scorpio sure looked good in the air last weekend.
Did that Oriental come with a 3" or 4" bellcrank? My ARF came with a 4" but I used a 3" instead. Not sure if that was a mistake or not.

Hope you don't mind if I post a pic of the Scrorpio. Here it is last weekend.
Not too bad for a cell phone pic



Thanks Rusty, love the fly by shots.  The profile Oriental kit came with a 3 inch bell crank, but I used a 4 inch, which helps to slow the
controls.

Don

Offline Don Jenkins

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2016, 06:48:33 AM »
Another coat or two of clear on the wing, along with fillets and just a bit more sanding and its ready for primer.  The glass cloth was pretty easy to use and a second light coat of resin wet sanded out nicely such that almost all the grain and defects are gone.  Looks like one light coat of primer should fill the remaining grain/defects. 

Don

Offline Gerald Arana

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #36 on: March 30, 2016, 09:59:51 AM »
Another coat or two of clear on the wing, along with fillets and just a bit more sanding and its ready for primer.  The glass cloth was pretty easy to use and a second light coat of resin wet sanded out nicely such that almost all the grain and defects are gone.  Looks like one light coat of primer should fill the remaining grain/defects. 

Don


Don, Please post your finished weight of this model. I'm considering using FG/Resin on my next ship and this is the size plane I like best.
Thank you, Jerry

Offline Adam micheal Collver

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #37 on: August 31, 2016, 01:44:17 PM »
Hey guys im at the part where i mount engine and shape fuse i cant decide wether to finish fuse completely and then cover then mount . Or go by the book any siggestions?

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #38 on: September 01, 2016, 10:51:50 AM »
Go by the book
 D>K
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Offline Don Jenkins

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #39 on: October 21, 2016, 07:41:38 AM »
This project stalled on the paint stand, and its been waiting for paint for 6 months!  I was going to use epoxy primer/paint but my friend and I whose equipment I was going to use could never get together to make it happen, so I hit it with the DC 540 primer and started to paint with dope, now that the humidity here in SC has begun to lower.  I'm still planning to put one coat of automotive clear, but again, that depends on my friend's equipment, otherwise clear dope.  Should be done with all the trim in the next few days, if all goes well!!

Don

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #40 on: October 21, 2016, 09:43:45 AM »
Are you spraying or brushing?   
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline Don Jenkins

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #41 on: October 21, 2016, 02:41:52 PM »
Are you spraying or brushing?   

Spraying.  I used to spray in my garage by covering everything with poly sheeting, but I eventually realized with dope, I can drag the paint stand into the driveway on good days and get better lighting from natural sunshine and it dries so quick I seldom get stuff stuck in it.  The big plus is that my wonder wife doesn't have to smell the dope fumes that crept in the house from the garage.  I know, I can't understand it either I actually enjoy those model airplane smells!  I got some red on the wings earlier today.

Don

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #42 on: October 21, 2016, 09:25:32 PM »
Those Red Squares ! Theyre upside down .  :## S?P Looking Good .  H^^

Offline Don Jenkins

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #43 on: October 22, 2016, 01:21:13 PM »
Making progress, slowly but surely.  Next will be some more red squares on the flaps, stab and elevators.  Time consuming and therapeutic, but keeps me out trouble!

Don

Offline RknRusty

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #44 on: October 22, 2016, 04:13:49 PM »
Don, what do you make your little fairing for the flap rod out of? I rolled up a piece of 1/16" balsa for my Twister but botched it. I made a new piece to try again. Right now it's just covered with Monokote.
Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
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while you're doing it!

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Offline Don Jenkins

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #45 on: October 23, 2016, 06:00:43 AM »
Don, what do you make your little fairing for the flap rod out of? I rolled up a piece of 1/16" balsa for my Twister but botched it. I made a new piece to try again. Right now it's just covered with Monokote.
Rusty

I carved/sanded it from a balsa block.  I used a 1/2 piece of tubing wrapped with sand paper and made the "tunnel" then sanded the bottom to sit flush on the wing, then shaped the outside to get it streamlined, then glued it to the wing. 

Don

Offline RknRusty

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #46 on: October 23, 2016, 09:52:56 AM »
There ya go, I can do that. I should have read this before I went out to the shop and botched another piece of sheet. Thanks, Don.
Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
www.coxengineforum.com

Offline Don Jenkins

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #47 on: October 25, 2016, 06:55:15 AM »
Finally done with the checkerboard!  The paint mask worked well, and I used individual squares from it to mask the flaps and elevators so everything aligned pretty good.  I'll mask and paint the fuselage next and finish this thing up so I can focus on my next PAMPA plane!

Don

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #48 on: October 25, 2016, 10:18:50 AM »
Don,

Your model looks really good!

Nothing wrong with a well thought out color scheme.

From paper drawing finished to model.

Nice color choices also.

EXCEPTIONAL!!

Charles
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Don Jenkins

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Re: Brodak profile Oriental revisions
« Reply #49 on: October 26, 2016, 05:59:56 AM »
Don,

Your model looks really good!

Nothing wrong with a well thought out color scheme.

From paper drawing finished to model.

Nice color choices also.

EXCEPTIONAL!!

Charles

Thank you Charles.  Greatly appreciated, especially coming from a man with your talents.  Although I seldom make comments on other people's posts, I am a fan of your work!

Don


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