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Author Topic: SV-11 ARF CG?  (Read 2694 times)
Mike Callas
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« on: September 29, 2016, 11:40:38 PM »

Just finished a SV-11 ARF. Any idea where the CG should be?


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Chris Behm
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« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2017, 10:03:09 AM »

Wow, that's a beautiful plane, Mike.
How'd it go with regards to the cg?
Where'd you buy it? ARF, or ARC?
Any impressions, do you love it?
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Chris
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« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2017, 10:12:14 AM »

Ask the manufacturer?  Doesn't it say in the build book?

Here's Randy's website: http://www.aeroproduct.net/.  His email is on there, so you can simply ask the designer.

If that fails, and if no one comes up with a better idea, put it somewhere between and inch forward of the spar to right on the spar.  Then make your first few flights cautiously.  (Based on my experience with a similar plane, I'd start with the CG on the spar -- but in part that's because I'm confident that I can at least get a tail-heavy plane back on the ground safely.  Your mileage may vary.)
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Mike Callas
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« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2017, 04:39:56 PM »

Thanks guys!
I started on the spar and adjusted it to where it coasts level after MECO (main eng cutoff).
I started the trimming process and unfortunately, put it on hold to take care of some other priorities.
It started as an ARF that I added some internal mods, recovered (carbon veil dope and finally Klasskote) added wheel pants. Stalker 76 power.
For a novice it flies real nice and looks great inside the circle.

Mike
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« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2017, 04:54:10 PM »

Where did you find it?
I think that Brodak used to sell them. Or did you get it second hand maybe?

Thanks,
Chris
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« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2017, 05:05:05 PM »

Where did you find it?
I think that Brodak used to sell them. Or did you get it second hand maybe?

Dunno where Mike got his, but it's in current manufacture.  Randy, uh, something.  Smith if I'm remembering right (I get my Randy's confused -- sorry guys -- someone correct me if I'm wrong).  At any rate, Aero Products:

http://www.aeroproduct.net/.
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Mike Callas
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« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2017, 06:42:05 PM »

Brodak did indeed sell them. And I bought this ARF a long time ago from Brodak. I put it together this past summer. Stripped off the covering and went at it.
I also bought an SV-11 kit from Smith. That will get the Igor Burger electric setup.

Not that it means anything coming from me, but it flies great. This plane turns well, easy to get a good sight picture,  and for some intangible reason that I cannot articulate, it seems to give me more time to manipulate the handle during a maneuver.

Still going thru the trimming process so more to learn!


* SV-11 2.jpg (368.02 KB, 3000x1684 - viewed 123 times.)
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Chris Behm
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« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2017, 10:48:42 PM »

Dunno where Mike got his, but it's in current manufacture.  Randy, uh, something.  Smith if I'm remembering right (I get my Randy's confused -- sorry guys -- someone correct me if I'm wrong).  At any rate, Aero Products:

http://www.aeroproduct.net/.

I didn't see an SV-11 ARF on Randy Smith's website. Maybe I missed it.
I know he has the full kit, but the original poster said this was an ARF.
That's why I asked where he got it.
 Hoff
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« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2017, 09:53:59 AM »

Ask the manufacturer?  Doesn't it say in the build book?

Here's Randy's website: http://www.aeroproduct.net/.  His email is on there, so you can simply ask the designer.

If that fails, and if no one comes up with a better idea, put it somewhere between and inch forward of the spar to right on the spar.  Then make your first few flights cautiously.  (Based on my experience with a similar plane, I'd start with the CG on the spar -- but in part that's because I'm confident that I can at least get a tail-heavy plane back on the ground safely.  Your mileage may vary.)

Reread Tim,  I would rather have a nose heavy plane for first fights.   I've lost one tail heavy plane years ago before some one told me. Stir the pot
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« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2017, 12:53:52 PM »

What's that old saying-
"A nose heavy plane flies terrible, but a tail heavy plane flies ONCE!"?

That particular plane seems easy enough to find the CG for.

R,
Chris
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« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2017, 12:36:20 PM »

OK, I haven't done anything productive for the group lately. Here is my "beginners guide to bench trimming" customized for the SV-11. 

This is not a replacement for the vastly superior Paul Walker trim chart, and is not meant to be complete in that respect. This is just a down and dirty beginners guide as it relates specifically to the SV "in my experience".
(Randy Smith is invited to comment where I go awry)

The SV-11 "in my experience" trims out well with the fore/aft CG anywhere between 3 1/4" and 3 5/8" behind the leading edge. 3 1/4" back is the "ultra stable" range, and 3 5/8" to 3/3/4" is "very sporty" and I wouldn't fly it further back than that.

Now, that is for standard Piped IC engines. I've seen Epower SV's trim out reasonably well at 3", and if they had used a normal rotation direction on the prop, I suspect the plane would have been stable with the CG moved back to my preferred range, which is 3 5/8".

If I was a beginner that was uncomfortable with high performance planes cornering ability, putting up my first ever flight on a new SV, I'd set the CG at 3 1/4", put the leadouts 1" behind that. Set the handle spacing at 3 3/4" to 4" at the handle. (standard Kaz style or similar hardpoint or cable, not front bar handles)

Next hang it from the leadouts and re-evaluate the  fore/aft C/G making sure it's slightly nose down or at least level, not up, and check the vertical C/G making sure the wheels are parallel to the ground. Lighter or heavier wheels can help with this, but it's usually not far off if you stick to the stock design and is fairly forgiving.

Balance the plane on the spinner tip and the tail wheel, and make sure the outboard wing drops slowly but without hesitation. (about 1/2 to 5/8 ounce of tip weight in the long run for me most planes, but 3/4 to 1 ounce to start usually). This can be effected immensely by how long you make your leadouts before you cut/wrap/crimp them.

Roll the plane on the ground, make sure it rolls straight ahead. When you hook up your lines, make sure the handle is vertical (90 deg to ground) when the elevators are in line with the thrust line of the engine/wing/stab (not parallel to the ground!).

Do the flaps drop on their own and the controls work freely without binding or self centering? If not, fix it now, before you fly it! (springing back towards neutral is common after taping hingeline's, redo it until they are symmetrical without springing) 

When you take off for the first time, take a step back and whip the plane off the ground just to be safe. Continue whipping the plane for the first lap. If all seems reasonable ok, relax.

Next, get a lap time. Shoot for 5.1 to 5.3 seconds to your personal taste and stick with it throughout the trimming process. Trim is SPEED SENSITIVE. Do not let your laps vary a lot from flight to flight during trimming, or you will chase your tail.

Now eyeball the wings and landing gear for 2 things, do you see one wheel in front of the other, and is the wing tipped towards or away from you? This is best confirmed by your flying buddies, make sure to tell them to watch closely before you take off.

If you are confident the plane is doing well, try some large inside loops. All ok? Plane didn't come in at you? Good. Try elongating the tops of the inside loops into hugely wide ovals. Tank seem OK? Not slowing down or speeding up drastically?

Try some lazy 8's next. Still OK? Engine hasn't quit, burped, or changed speed drastically yet? Line tension in the inside vs/ outside portion of the lazy 8 seem equal?

Good, now try inverted. This is where your buddy comes in handy, have him know ahead of time to keep paying attention, now he should be checking for wings level again.

OK, get it back upright and fly it out level. No need to try and show off or be able to brag how much of a pattern you did on the first flight.

When you land, make needed adjustments, and check ALL bolts, pull cowl, check engine bolts, check wheel play, etc. Button it up, you are ready for flight #2, and you will be the only one who really knows when it is ready to pattern. Refer to Paul's excellent trim chart from here forward and you should be golden.

Most importantly, breath, relax & bring it home in one piece!
EricV
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« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2017, 01:09:01 PM »

You mean we are to breath and relax at the same time!!!   Layingdown Layingdown Layingdown  Thanks Eric, great advice.   Hoff
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« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2017, 11:07:34 PM »

Thanks Eric,
So far the plane flies great. Still working on the trim process and breaking in the motor.
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Welcome to the Stunt Hanger.


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« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2017, 09:38:38 PM »

Thanks Eric,
So far the plane flies great. Still working on the trim process and breaking in the motor.

Eric's  post was  good  and covered  a lot of info,  so use for good advantage,  I setup mine  to start  at  3  3/8 inch from root center, (which is very close to right at the high point of the airfoil) use a 4 inch spread on my handle, try it  there, then adjust  the  CG and  handle spacing for  final tweek trimming.
by the way, the  new  company is  building  the  NEW  ARF  and  ARC  SV-11S Now.  I have had  the  prototypes  here for  getting it all right... they  will be much better  than the   last  runs  we had from the  old company

Randy
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Bud Shipley
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« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2017, 05:46:17 AM »

Hey Eric
Just perused your post here and it co-insides with my resurgence into model aviation in North Carolina.  Found a RC club that would accommodate an old control liner - if I mowed the circle!  Really I'm happy to do that (hey its a John Deere).  Club is http://etowahrc.org/
Anyway reading your post brings me back to basics to get started so thanks!
Still got the old Chevy and doing quite a bit of hiking here in Western NC.  Lots of waterfalls.
Hi to the guys down there and happy flyin'.
Bud
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Eric Viglione
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« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2017, 12:34:14 PM »

Hey Bud,

Welcome back!!!!

You are 2hrs from Huntersville, so you have an awesome local contest to go to, and a nice field when you don't feel like mowing lawn for Etowah.

My sister & her husband just moved back to Florida from Jamestown NC, and she always raved about how nice it was up there, almost like Mayberry / Mt Pilot in a time warp, heh.

EddyR is within a couple hours of you too.

Probably isn't cricket to hijack this thread, so PM or email me if you want to gab more, but sure, I'll pass word along to the gang.

Back on subject, if you get one of the new SV11 ARC/ARF when available or build from one of Randy's kits, I think you will like it. Great design.

Have fun!
EricV
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« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2017, 02:23:00 PM »

So Randy

When will ARF or ARC SV11 be for sale? By you I assume or is this a Brodak buy?

I am curious so I would also like to know the preferred engine for the ARF or ARC SV11 and also a source

And lastly because I searched and can not find... How expensive are these ARF or ARC SV11s?

I do see on the Aero web site the SV11 kit for $299

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« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2017, 05:05:03 PM »

Hi Randy,

Will your SV-11 ARC/ARF be offered in an electric version, like the excellent new ARF P-40 ?

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Rudy Taube
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« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2017, 07:18:30 PM »

I too am interested in the SV's in ARF (probably ARC preferred for me), and quite possibly an e-version, although I'm about as undecided as they come right now on glow vs. E-power.
Please put out more info, Randy Smith!
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Chris Behm
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« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2017, 10:11:46 PM »


Please put out more info, Randy Smith!


C'mon, Man!
:-)

We needs some information on the NEW SV-11's....
Please.
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