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Author Topic: Ringmaster ARF Build  (Read 7337 times)

Offline James Holford

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Ringmaster ARF Build
« on: October 13, 2016, 04:59:35 AM »
Ready to glue wing to the fuselage. Measured..centered...trimmed wing of monokote to I will ha e a wood to wood joint.

 Do I use CA or Epoxy?  Having dry fitted the wing...i can see daylight thru little gaps so Im leaning towards epoxy for a strong bond and to fill the gaps.

 Thoughts?

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Jamie Holford
Baton Rouge Bi-Liners
Lafayette, La
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Online John Paris

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Re: Ringmaster ARF Build
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2016, 10:22:18 AM »
James,
I used epoxy on a recent ARC build but one of the guys in the RC club I belong to (yes they also fly CL) has used CA successfully on 3 models.  What is your plan for the elevator?  A friend from the other side of the state used pinned hinges on his and they performed quite well.  Probably better than the CA style supplied with the kit.

Drop some pictures in here when you have a chance.

Regards,
John
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Offline James Holford

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Re:
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2016, 11:05:15 AM »
Cool deal. I will more than likely use Epoxy for the Fuselage.
 
 Im goin to put better hinges than those CA hinges it comes with. Some may like them and whatnot.
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Jamie Holford
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Ringmaster ARF Build
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2016, 11:40:18 AM »
+1 on not using the CA hinges,,,

as to the wing fuselage joint, consider aligning it, then tacking it with CA wherever it makes contact, then where air gaps exist, make balsa shims to fill the gap ( not forced in just a snig fit) then a drop or two of thin CA will make the bond without all the weight of epoxy to fill the gap.
You are ultimately gluing balsa to balsa to balsa, so the CA does a good job as long as you fill the gaps with balsa shims
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Offline James Holford

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Re:
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2016, 04:26:18 PM »
Cool deal...  the gaps arent big.. less than 1/16".  And yhe CA I have dries Quik lol. Im sure it would provide a strong enough bond.
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Jamie Holford
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Lafayette, La
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Offline Mark Mc

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Re: Ringmaster ARF Build
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2016, 09:44:26 PM »
James, on my electric RM ARF, the wing to fuselage fit was extremely tight.  I was able to use CA glue.  Unlike my electric Super Clown ARF where I had to use epoxy doe to gaps top and bottom of about 1/16 inch.  The fit and finish of the electric RM are great, and I did not have any qualms about using CA.  In fact, when considering whether to use epoxy, I was afraid of not getting enough epoxy between the surfaces and having a dry glue joint with epoxy.  The plane flies great with the wing CA'ed in place.  But, seeing as you have gaps on yours, yes, I'd definitely use epoxy.

Mark
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Offline James Holford

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Re:
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2016, 06:09:01 PM »
The Gap wasnt too bad. I used CA and that baby is nice and stuck!

 Finally got my pin hinges today and with work on the elevator and mount it and the rudder as well.


  My main issue will be the pushrod... I do not like the setup that came with the ARF with a split rod with a sleeve to be soldered.

I did get a 36" carbon tube/rod that I was going to epoxy to the pushrod that is sticking out the wing and run it to the elevator...cut to length.. then epoxy either a 4-40 or 2-56 threaded rod with a ball link to it can be adjustable.   Thought and opinions?
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Jamie Holford
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Ringmaster ARF Build
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2016, 06:40:49 PM »
Someone turned me on to filing half-round notches in the wing-fuselage joint with a rat-tail file, getting the wing all fit, and then putting epoxy just in those notches.  Three on top and three on bottom makes for more strength than you need.

For that matter, if you make a wing-fuse fillet out of epoxy filled with microballoons, the original glue joint probably becomes superfluous.
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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Ringmaster ARF Build
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2016, 06:52:21 PM »
And: CA hinges are OK (I had them on a hand-me-down Skyray), pinned hinges are better if you get them aligned.  Pinned hinges stuck in any which way will bind way worse than CA hinges.

A CF push rod is a good idea, but I'm having trouble visualizing exactly what you're trying to do.  If it's big and thin-walled, like an arrow shaft, then a pushrod with a "bushing" made from hard balsa or birch dowel to fit it to the pushrod should work, although I'd make sure to rough up the end of the rod, and maybe even take a Dremel Dangerous Disk and cut some grooves in it to give more "bite".  Do the same on the other side.  You can buy ends made for this.  I tend to go overboard and machine cute little aluminum ends for mine, threaded 4-40 to screw onto a pushrod, or with a 4-40 bolt sticking out for a ball end.  But -- overboard.
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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline James Holford

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« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2016, 07:13:28 PM »
I much prefer the rod threading in on both sides than having to epoxy.... 

The walls arent that thin like a arrow shaft. 

Ive seen somewhere years back a carbon rod setup from bellcrank to flaps and flaps to elevator.. perhaps I need to shop around online.

Would have been better if the rod already attached to the bellcrank would have a threaded end to screw on a carbon rod with a female threaded insert. 

Perks of an ARF..  Then again... having a full length rod going the length of the fuselage would have been ideal but thats just my opinion.  Ill try to get a couple pics uploaded of it.
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Jamie Holford
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Offline James Holford

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Re: Ringmaster ARF Build
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2016, 08:39:46 PM »
Here is a 4-40 rod inside of the Carbon rod I have. If the 4-40 was a tad thicker it would fit snug. SADLY the rod thats attached to the bellcrank is 2-56 size or a hair under 1/8".

 Im really at a standstill on this as there is things I could do....but it seems I would almost be better off cutting open the sheeted section and installing a whole new rod on the bellcrank.. but surely there has to be easier ways.....  I'll do the soldering method as a last resort instead of performing un-needed surgery.


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Jamie Holford
Baton Rouge Bi-Liners
Lafayette, La
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Ringmaster ARF Build
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2016, 09:27:41 PM »
As noted, these are available commercially.  But they cost $7 or $10 or something.  So it costs less to buy used arrow shafts for a buck from a store 35 miles away, and then spend an hour hand making the ends -- right?


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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline James Holford

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Re:
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2016, 04:28:50 AM »
Yep thats what I was thinking of!

 
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Jamie Holford
Baton Rouge Bi-Liners
Lafayette, La
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re:
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2016, 01:14:25 PM »
Quote from: James Holford on October 16, 2016, 04:28:50 AM
Yep thats what I was thinking of!

I don't know if these will work or not: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXB901&P=V#technotes.  The problem with not buying stuff is that I never know what to tell people to buy.

I get cheap used arrow shafts (if I'm close to the one archery shop in the area that sells them), or I mail-order 6mm or 7mm thin-wall tubing from a kite shop, then make the ends shown.  I know that there are purchased parts that people use, but I couldn't say what they are.  If you DO find something like what I make, then you could terminate the end of the push rod coming out of the wing with a solder-on 4-40 link, and screw the pushrod on.

(When I'm building a profile from scratch I build the wing with a ball link installed on the bellcrank, then screw the control rod on after everything is painted.  It requires some finagling and Power Words to get the thing started (and you want to have screwed the pushrod into the ball link when it's out of the wing), but doing so is less trouble than trying to paint around a pushrod sticking out of a wing.

Hopefully someone who buys their pushrod stuff will come on line and say what they get?
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AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline James Holford

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Re:
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2016, 04:17:33 PM »
Tim that setup may just be the ticket!!!... im goin to look more into that!


 On a higher note. Stopped by Jim Lee's tent today at te Baton Rouge event.and picked up one of his tongue mufflers and a NVA for my OS .25FP thats going on this Ringmaster.

Only thing left to get is a set of lines.. planning on going with Tom Morris set of 7-strand....  Any good opinion on Diameter and Length? Was thinking 58ft-62ft
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Jamie Holford
Baton Rouge Bi-Liners
Lafayette, La
AMA #1126767

Offline James Holford

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Re:
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2016, 04:18:49 PM »
Also forgot.. of noone has even seen Jim Lee's GeeBee fly... WoW what a beauty!
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Jamie Holford
Baton Rouge Bi-Liners
Lafayette, La
AMA #1126767

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Ringmaster ARF Build
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2016, 04:26:23 PM »
I have watched it fly many times.   He does beautiful work.
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Offline James Holford

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Re: Re: Ringmaster ARF Build
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2016, 05:00:42 PM »
Quote from: john e. holliday on October 16, 2016, 04:26:23 PM
I have watched it fly many times.   He does beautiful work.
Was my first time meeting him in person this weekend.. his machine work is really top notch.   But that GeeBee tho... oh man what a beautiful flyer.
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Jamie Holford
Baton Rouge Bi-Liners
Lafayette, La
AMA #1126767

Online John Paris

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Re: Ringmaster ARF Build
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2016, 06:33:25 PM »
James,
The push rod will need to be bent to make it to the horn.  The supplied bolt with washer soldered on works pretty well with the soldered piano wire.  You could substitute a 3/32" rod with threaded end if you need some adjustability.
Best of luck.
John
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John Paris
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