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Author Topic: Cox PT-19 Replica build- Flight Video  (Read 17068 times)

Offline goozgog

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Cox PT-19 Replica build- Flight Video
« on: December 14, 2014, 11:55:51 AM »
Flight Video over at YouTube - UPDATE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pa0ksvgfDtU&feature=youtu.be

The Plastic Trainer -19
build info starts at reply #17  

Since it came up in my " Cox Spitfire Replica Build",
there seems to be a lot of interest in PT-19's, so I
volunteered to do a drawing.
 
   The PT-19 Shown here is on loan from
"Diamond John" McFayden.  A lot of you know
John at Brodak's. That's him on the right of the
first picture. I'm on the left and Len Bourel is in
the middle. John was good enough to email me
out of the blue to offer his plane.
Many thanks John.

    We all know what a Cox PT-19 looks like but
the second picture is the one I'm working from.
I've drawn it with a Baby Bee but I might also
show how the product engine is installed.
  These planes have seen a lot of changes during
50+ years. If anyone has any advice about what
details I should include, I'd be very happy to hear
them.

   Picture #3 shows an important change.
Sad but true.

   So, I'm including a small version of my working
drawing here. Look down at reply #9 for a small version.
I'm offering a FREE, for the asking, full size PDF file to anyone
who wants it.

   Now I have to build one  Maybe two!

Cheers!
« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 04:18:05 AM by goozgog »
Keith Morgan

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Cox PT-19 Replica build
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2014, 04:32:42 PM »
WOW! Great drawing! And a superb project. Just be sure to epoxy coat the inside of the model! They do get messy inside.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Cox PT-19 Replica build
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2014, 08:23:27 PM »
    I don't get much spare time to explore the other forums on Stunthanger and just catching up on this and just read the Spitfire thread......FREAKING AWESOME MAN!!! I have plenty of PT-19's to fly, but the idea of building one in interesting. I'll for sure follow this. I already have a few thoughts on how to do the taco shell type fuselage. As far as which engine to use, I would think you could just calculate where the pivot for the engine mount should be for each engine, and build the fuse accordingly. The product engien with the choke tube works pretty good, I think. And the mounting holes are different, aren't they? With a plywood firewall/engine mount, you could potentially mount either engine on the same mount. Or engineer the fuse and engine mount for the product engine, and to use the Baby Bee, just make another mount. The engine won't stick out that much and probably won't hurt a thing. Yeah, I'll be watching this forum more often with great interest!
   Good luck and have fun!
    Dan McEntee
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Offline LARRY RICE

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Re: Cox PT-19 Replica build
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2014, 08:34:03 PM »
At Black Hawk Models we are making our third prototype of a "COX TRAINER" that we plan to release in January.  It is similar to the PT-19 in appearance with rubber bands holding it together.  The model will be a combination of Plywood and Balsa.  I am planning to add "AUTO-PILOT" to the kit.

Larry
Black Hawk Models

Offline goozgog

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Re: Cox PT-19 Replica build
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2014, 02:50:44 PM »
Hey Dan,
            Thanks for the input!
I really appreciate you taking the
time.

  A big part of why I'm drawing the
PT-19 is so that there's an archive
for the C/L community to have in
the future. I learned from making the
Spitfire that detailed information is
hard to get and that the different
versions are all mixed up.
  The PT-19 is worth documenting
but I only have one late sample
and I don't know what's important
or usable information. Every little bit
helps.
BTW " Taco Shell" fuselage is perfect.
That's just what they feel like.
 y1

   Mr. Renger, Yup! I'm planning on
epoxying the nose of this thing
like I did on the Spit. The 1/16"
balsa would soak up oil like Kleenex.
   Thanks for complimenting the drawing
but the @#$%^&! arrowheads didn't
scale down.  Gremlins!

   Hey Capt. Blackhawk, why not
post a picture and give us a sneak
pre-view?

Cheers!
Keith Morgan

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Cox PT-19 Replica build
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2014, 03:33:01 PM »
   I have several different vintages of the PT-19 and will try to get good side by side observations of them. But as far as I can tell, the big major differences are just un the engine mount when they went from the Babe Bee to a product engine, and the type of pilots, and how the wind shields were made varied over the years. Over all shape and dimensions appear to be near the same. The final version had some revisons over it's predicessor. Mike Pratt was working for Cox at the time and he told me he did the engineering on that. Made some plastic thicker where it needed to be, thinner where it needed to be, added tip weight to the wing, some surface detailing to the rear of the fuselage to better resemble fabric covering, stuff like that. The more I think of it, a scratch built version, with a glass or carbon re-enforces taco shell type fuselage, solid balsa wing and tail surfaces, might actually be pretty durable. getting a good color on the parts that is fuel proof in this day and age might be one of the biggest hurdles. Looking forward to watching the project, and maybe building one of my own!
   Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee
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Offline LARRY RICE

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Re: Cox PT-19 Replica build
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2014, 06:03:29 PM »
Wish I had pictures to post.  The first two prototypes were to hard to build so the third has a major redesign and includes the Auto Pilot parts.  The laser cutter is doing the CAD work now and expects to ship late this week.  The 2 sides are plywood, the top is thick balsa so that it can be sanded round.  The Fin, Rudder, Elevator and Stabilizer are all plywood.  The wing is thick balsa with dowels where the bands will go, to protect the balsa.  There will be alignment pieces to make reassembly quick and easy.  I plan to offer the kit in 2 versions one with the engine, handle and line.  I have checked the weight on the first prototype and it seems that we will be in the good area for a rugged trainer with the ability to do a loop or two.
As soon as I get pictures I will post them.

Larry

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Cox PT-19 Replica build
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2014, 05:44:55 AM »
So far, the only thing that seems to damage KlassKote epoxy is asphalt at 60mph.  HB~>
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline mike londke

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Re: Cox PT-19 Replica build
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2014, 10:38:13 PM »
If it comes out as good looking as the Spitfire we are in for a treat. You are a talented builder. Look forward to the pics. Mike
AMA 48913  USPA D-19580  NRA Life Member  MI State Record Holder 50 way Freefall Formation Skydive  "Don't let the planet sneak up on you"

Offline goozgog

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Re: Cox PT-19 Replica build
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2014, 05:46:05 AM »
Thanks for the encouragement Mike!

   I've finished the "Archive" drawing and
I'm hoping it posts here without being too big.
It's in PDF format and anyone with free Adobe
Acrobat should be able to open it. It seems to
work OK for me.
Everyone is welcome to ask for a free full size
PDF file.
  
I'm going to remove the drawing from the top of
this thread to avoid confusion.

PT-19 ARCHIVE DRAWING

Cheers!
« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 04:19:44 AM by goozgog »
Keith Morgan

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Cox PT-19 Replica build
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2014, 08:07:35 AM »
Your PT-19 replica looks great.  You have to look close to see it's made of wood.
Paul Smith

Offline goozgog

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Re: Cox PT-19 Replica build
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2014, 10:47:37 AM »
Very funny Paul!

  The wooden "PT-19" was our
Junk Yard Wars plane from the
year before you joined us on
Team Canada.
  Next year we're making you
responsible for our JYW plane
having a 20 point finish.
 #^
Keith Morgan

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Cox PT-19 Replica build
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2014, 03:16:40 PM »
My local grocery store refused to give me the old corn crates.  They send them back to the farm for re-use.  Brodak scraps 'em after one trip.  I'm having serious doubts about the food from a store that ships in old rotten crates.
Paul Smith

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Cox PT-19 Replica build
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2014, 05:29:35 PM »

 This will be cool. The only significant mod I would suggest is to close the "taco" fuse bottom. Mine would have beam mounts and a Tee Dee or Medallion too.
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline goozgog

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Re: Cox PT-19 Replica build
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2014, 12:33:28 PM »
  It's a golden Saturday here in Toronto.
Just below freezing but calm and sunny.
Of course, The Balsa Beavers came
out to fly.  Seven of us spontaneously
appeared and crunched our way over
the ice to the amazingly snow free circle.
A perfect time to debut the PT-19 replica!

   OK, so this is a bit of a tease. That's why
the picture is blurry.
I want  to post this as a "How to build it"
article with drawings and pictures but since
this kind of weather is very rare we flew the
PT-19 slightly unfinished.

No false modesty here.
It flies EXCELLENT! y1

  Len Bourel did several loops on
it's very first flight and Chris Brownhill
managed Loops and two laps of inverted
before The Baby Bee quit. The inevitable
crash (on frozen grass) did no harm at all.

  The only real beginner present was
Raquel and she had no problem flying
this plane during three flights.
That's her in the picture.

A good time was had by all!

More coming soon.

Cheers!

  

  

  


  
« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 04:22:06 AM by goozgog »
Keith Morgan

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Cox PT-19 Replica build
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2014, 05:13:00 PM »
   WOW! I thought you were just getting started with the drawings for this one! More detailed pics when you get the chance!
    MERRY CHRISTMAS!!
   Dan McEntee
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Offline Rosie Rosenau

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Re: Cox PT-19 Replica build
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2014, 12:35:20 AM »
So here is what I am currently doing to my gas c/l planes and concerting my 1/2A's to electric. So what and how can this awesome plane be converted from gas to electric? Can anyone help me with this?
Tally ho and thanks in advance.
Richard "Rosie" Rosenau Jr.
Yelm, WA
Richard "Rosie" Rosenau Jr, Yelm WA, USA

Offline goozgog

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Re: Cox PT-19 Replica build
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2014, 06:54:54 AM »
BUILD ARTICLE STARTS HERE

   I know that this isn’t the plane people
are expecting to see here  after reading  
my “Cox Spitfire Build” thread.

When I was drawing the Archive plan of
the Cox PT-19 , I realized that a molded
balsa version would not have the ability
to bounce off the earth in the way that
was so much a part of the Cox plane.
Besides, with the Archive Drawing and the  
Spitfire thread, a decent builder would be
able to make their own balsa PT- 19.
   What this design is, is an exact measurement
of the Cox plane that anyone can build in
about two hours. Weight is 7.8 oz. instead
of the original’s 10.  It is able to be crashed
repeatedly and still fly , and it flies VERY well.  
It is affordable in both time and money
and it looks like a plane.
Just like the original Cox PT-19.

   I’m hoping that someone will cut out the
parts as shown and then take the time to
assemble it with a child or two. It goes
together so quickly that even the shortest
attention span should stay engaged.

    I have tried to only use materials available
from the big box building centers like  
Home Depot, Rona (Canada) and Lowe’s.
 
  Picture number one shows the prototypes
with an original Cox plane.
You might notice that the build model in the
foreground doesn’t have the windshields installed.  
This is because the corrugated plastic sheet
doesn’t take glue well and since this plane will
probably be crashed repeatedly, the windshields
seem like a poor investment for the time involved.
That’s the builder’s choice.

  Speaking of glue, except for glue to stick the
decals on, there is no need for any glue on this plane.
I tested every type of glue in my shop and
 found that cyano is almost OK but it takes
hours to set when used on this material.  Contact
Cement is also good but is unnecessary
for anything here. Five minute epoxy is OK for
the windshields if they’re slotted into the fuselage
and it also good for fuel proofing the pine formers.

    I doubt if any experienced builder would
have trouble with this project but since it’s a trainer
I have been very literal with the instructions.
(Hey Sparky, thanks for being there. I’ve tried to
keep the pictures as small and few as possible.
It hope they’re OK)
« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 04:52:34 AM by goozgog »
Keith Morgan

Offline goozgog

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Re: Cox PT-19 Replica build
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2014, 07:01:07 AM »
I'll be posting the build article over then
next few days. It's a lot of typing!

   Picture #1. Download the PDF file
and print them out full size then tape
them together .
The drawings have enough dimensions
that it’s possible to just plot the parts
on the plastic then cut them out with  
knife but that all takes time.  

Picture #2 , #3 & #4. I used 3M spray
adhesive to stick the drawings to the
corugatted plastic sheet.  I used my
cheap little band saw to cut out all the parts.
This works great but a knife is almost as good.
The saw leaves a rough edge which sands
off easily with 80 grit paper.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 04:30:08 AM by goozgog »
Keith Morgan

Offline Bill Smith

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Re: Cox PT-19 Replica build
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2014, 07:10:36 AM »
Great job

I will be building one.
kids will love this.
thank you.

Offline goozgog

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Re: Cox PT-19 Replica build
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2014, 07:36:26 AM »
 Hey Bill,
            be sure to ask me for the full size PDF
to print.
It's free for everyone.  y1
Just send me a message.
Keith Morgan

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Cox PT-19 Replica build
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2014, 09:54:30 AM »
  Well how cool is that??!!!!! Excellent use of the material. When I get a chance I'll try to post pics or send them to you of a model I built that basically copies the SIG 1/2A Skyray and is built from Coreplast and yard sticks. I'll have to see where I can buy blue and yello coreplast. Please send me the plan file to my email address:  dpmcenthusiast at aol dot com.
   Thanks a lot!
   Dan McEntee
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Offline goozgog

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Re: Cox PT-19 Replica build
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2014, 05:52:25 AM »
Hello Dan and Bill,

Plans and decals sent.  :)
Keith Morgan

Offline Bill Smith

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Re: Cox PT-19 Replica build
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2014, 07:22:37 AM »
Got them and they look good.
this is going to be a build in spring with the neighbor kids don't want to do it now or they will get bored waiting for good weather.
But I can get one for me and some of the parts cut now. 
Mind if I share this with someone?

Offline goozgog

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Re: Cox PT-19 Replica build
« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2014, 07:32:05 AM »
Cut out the wood formers by spray gluing the outline
to ¾” pine (or spruce or fir).  If ½” wood is available
then it’s ideal for the trailing edge wing mount.

    I used 3/16” wood dowel that I bought at Lowe’s
for the “pins” that hold this plane together.
It is IMPORTANT to know that the pins will not
be glued into the wood mounts. They need to be
moveable for assembly. Drill the dowel holes for a
sliding fit but size and position don’t need to be critical.
Picture #5 shows the groove for the landing gear
cut into the forward face of the engine mount.

Picture #6 shows all of the wooden parts and
the elevator axle. The axle fit better into the elevator
after I tapered the ends by clamping it into an electric
drill and wrapping some sand paper around it. A tight fit
into the plastic flutes is IMPORTANT.
Be sure not to sand the center ¾”section of
the axle since it will be the “bearing”
that the elevator hinges on.


« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 04:31:41 AM by goozgog »
Keith Morgan

Offline goozgog

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Re: Cox PT-19 Replica build
« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2014, 07:39:47 AM »
Picture #7 shows the slits cut half way through
the plastic’s flutes. These slits are on the inside
of the fuselage and are necessary to allow the
plastic to bend.  The center slit is full length
but the slits on either side are only 8” long
measured from the front of the “cowl”.

NOTICE that the holes for the dowels are not
made yet. This is done by carefully folding the
fuselage around the pine formers and piercing
through the plastic with an awl or screwdriver.
Picture #8
This requires a strong grip but it’s possible to
adjust and twist the plastic edges so that they align
accurately with the lower edge of the wood former.
The pre-drilled hole in the wood guides the screwdriver.
Picture #8, Push a dowel through the punctured holes
and hold the fuselage together while you do the same
 piercing for the trailing edge former/mount.

( More coming soon)

HAPPY NEW YEAR Everyone! <=
« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 04:32:54 AM by goozgog »
Keith Morgan

Offline goozgog

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Re: Cox PT-19 Replica build
« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2014, 07:42:43 AM »
Hey Bill,
            What ever happens,
when ever it happens is all good!

Share it with anyone you like.  :)
Keith Morgan

Offline Duke.Johnson

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Re: Cox PT-19 Replica build
« Reply #27 on: December 31, 2014, 09:16:48 AM »
This is Great! I think the guys at the RC field will love this.  We now mow a circle at the RC field and have put up a few guys.  They are really getting into flying CL. I'll PM you my email, if you willplease send the full size drawins.  thanks

Offline Bill Smith

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Re: Cox PT-19 Replica build
« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2014, 09:28:46 AM »
You know I might be able to do this same thing with some of the scientific hollow logs??

Offline goozgog

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Re: Cox PT-19 Replica build
« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2015, 05:46:30 AM »
  The only hard part of building this plane is
making the elevator hinge. It isn’t all that difficult
but it needs care.

Picture #10 shows how the rudder is positioned in
it’s slot when drilling the 3/16” hole.  Squash the
fuselage sides and rudder flat and drill slowly for
a nice clean hole. With a little care it’s possible to
drill between the flutes of the fuse sides and the
rudder.  The exact position of the hole isn’t critical.
 This “bearing” has worked well on all three of
my prototypes.

BTW, this is also a good time to drill the holes for the
leading edge dowel. Position the holes where the plans
show it.

(Picture #11) A nice clean hole!  A 3/16” Forestner
bit works well, but a regular , and sharp, drill bit
works OK if you cut slowly.
    
Picture #12 shows the elevator  inserted, ready
for the other elevator to be pressed onto the dowel.
NOTICE that I’ve added a plastic washer between
the fuselage and the elevator. It’s just  to give things
a little clearance.
The plastic bolt that holds the tail together needs to
be positioned exactly as shown on the plans (directly
under the axle) so that it doesn’t foul the elevator movement.

More coming soon...

« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 04:34:12 AM by goozgog »
Keith Morgan

Offline goozgog

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Re: Cox PT-19 Replica build
« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2015, 09:47:48 AM »
  Picture # 13 shows the wing with the dihedral bent into it.
This actually works well. Mark the center line of the wing,
then place it upside down over a sharp edge of a table.
Hold the wing down with a straight piece of wood and
bend it down until it creases.  The plastic is strong enough
that it doesn’t make the wing too weak and it stays bent
nicely.

  Picture #14 shows the #4 x ½” wood screw that holds
the engine mount at about 2 degrees down thrust.
A wide washer or piece of plastic under the screw will
help to prevent tear through in a crash.
Mount the engine  to the wood ,high enough for the
needle valve to project through the cowling.
Stretch the rubber band onto the dowel  like you
would for flight then “eyeball” a little down angle
into the engine’s thrust line. Drive the screw through
the plastic.  Not very scientific but it works.

More coming soon
« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 04:41:51 AM by goozgog »
Keith Morgan

Offline goozgog

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Re: Cox PT-19 Replica build
« Reply #31 on: January 02, 2015, 02:52:12 PM »
Picture #15 shows the underside of the assembled plane.
The controls are installed in this picture. Notice the plastic
pad under the bell crank that’s cut from a “Gift Card”.
  It’s best to use a commercially available ½ A bell crank and
control  horn ( Carl Goldberg, Dubro, Sullivan ect.) but if
they are not available it’s OK to make your own.
The bell crank shown  is made from two layers
of “Gift Card” sanded and glued together with cyano
then cut to the dimensions shown on the drawing.
An “L” horn can be made from metal or plastic packaging.

   Picture #16. To set the controls at neutral, drill
the bell crank mounting hole through the wing after
assembling the push rod, control horn and bell crank.

Picture #17 shows the finished controls. Notice that
the bell crank is on top of a stack of plastic washers
about 3/8” high. The pivot bolt is a#4-40 with a “Nylock” nut.

The lead out guides are just a 1/4" wide strip of
the wing plastic glued with cyano. Use the flutes
that let the nose hang low when the plane is
suspended by the lead outs.

A nickle makes a good tip weight.

  It might be necessary to work the elevator axle
bearing until it loosens up. A drop of oil helps.  Smooth
control action is always a good thing.

   The prototypes were flown on 40 foot spectra lines
with 3 inches of handle spacing.  I run my Cox engines
on 30% nitro fuel with 25% Synthetic/Castor oil.
Depending on the engine, loops and inverted flight are
reasonable but predictable and steady flight is what this
plane does best.
It also bounces off of mistakes pretty well.

Cheers!
« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 04:35:37 AM by goozgog »
Keith Morgan

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Cox PT-19 Replica build
« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2015, 10:33:47 AM »
I'm trying to get this in the air.  It was a fixer-upper off Ebay.

The problem is getting a healthy PeeWee .020.  That was also the problem when these were $7.95 in 1957.  When I got a good engine in my original it flew very well until I wrecked it.
Paul Smith

Offline Juan Valentin

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Re: Cox PT-19 Replica build
« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2015, 05:21:44 PM »
Hello Keith
                   You have done a great job with the Spit and the PT 19, I know a lot of guys are going to enjoy it. Your designs makes it look easy to do.
                                                                                                                                  Juan

Offline goozgog

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Re: Cox PT-19 Replica build
« Reply #34 on: January 04, 2015, 04:19:25 AM »
Thanks for the compliments Juan.

Plans sent.

Cheers! - K.
Keith Morgan

Offline goozgog

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Re: Cox PT-19 Replica build
« Reply #35 on: January 04, 2015, 04:32:04 AM »
  So far I've sent out eleven sets of
plans and decals and I'm really happy
about the response.
  If and when a plane gets built, I'm
hoping we 'll get a report about it.
  I built three prototypes before publishing this
but that's not as good as several planes built
by several people.
Many heads are better than one.
  If anyone thinks of a refinement that's
logical, I'll incorporate it into the plans.
Evolution usually beats revolution.

  Also, I'd sure like to hear more opinions on
the flight characteristics. I'm guessing
we'll have to wait for spring before we hear much.
I think this thing flies great for what it is.

Cheers!
 
Keith Morgan

Offline goozgog

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Re: Cox PT-19 Replica build
« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2015, 03:40:02 PM »
  I've sent out several sets of plans and decals
this week.
If you didn't receive yours please ask again.

Cheers!
Keith Morgan

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Cox PT-19 Replica build
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2015, 05:36:12 PM »
    I got mine keith, thanks a lot! Now just gotta find the room and time to deal with it! And the blue and yellow core plast! Got a few ideas about some possible changes to get the bell crank and push rod inside the fuselage, and still keep with your original intent of no glue. Just gotta figure it out whilebuilding one but think it can be done.
   Thanks again,
   Dan McEntee
AMA 28784
EAA  1038824
AMA 480405 (American Motorcyclist Association)

Offline Chancey Chorney

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Re: Cox PT-19 Replica build- Flight Video
« Reply #38 on: November 24, 2015, 03:18:42 PM »
Pm sent regarding plans. Thank you.

Offline Phillip Kenney

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Re: Cox PT-19 Replica build- Flight Video
« Reply #39 on: December 16, 2015, 08:00:59 PM »
I'm sure you mentioned it somewhere in the build thread, but I couldn't find it, what thickness coroplast did you use?


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